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"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?
Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction." -- Romans 9:11-22
originally posted by: tothetenthpower
So if we just use simple logic, we can determine the following:
1. God knows everything.
2.God is timeless
3. If #1 and #2 are correct, this means God also knows everything that *will* happen in the future.
4."God's Plan" as an idea would indicate that all 3 of the above are true.
If that is the case, then there is no free will, just the illusion of free will governed by a fear of eternal damnation.
So that's my issue. It insults my intelligence for people to claim the 4 things above are true, yet at the same time try and claim that you have the 'choice' to do as you please.
You do not.
Everything has been set in motion by God and all the events that have transpired and will transpire are the result of his direct intervention, or willful non intervention.
Neither of which include or require free will for his creations.
~Tenth
See, right this second, all things that have ever happened, are happening right now, in God's perspective of time. Time is not linear.
So, in understanding this, and understanding what is required to be chosen, then the fact you are already either doing it, or have accomplished a thing, in the future is a help to us.
O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”—Isaiah 48:18.
originally posted by: Dr1Akula
a reply to: MissSmartypants
But do we really have free will?
Much of our lives are determined by things over which we have no control - we don't decide whether our parents will copulate,
originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Free will isn't actually possible under the 'One True God' concept.
Because, by definition God is:
In monotheism and henotheism, God is conceived as the Supreme Being and principal object of faith.[1] The concept of God as described by theologians commonly includes the attributes of omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence
Bolding mine.
So if we just use simple logic, we can determine the following:
1. God knows everything.
2.God is timeless
3. If #1 and #2 are correct, this means God also knows everything that *will* happen in the future.
4."God's Plan" as an idea would indicate that all 3 of the above are true.
originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: FyreByrd
I agree that the god of men is what they love the most. This is what becomes their own god. Money for some is their god. Others, it is self.
Its just that 1 GOD, has power over all, and the rest.. are weak indeed. I prefer the powerful one.
originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: FyreByrd
I agree that the god of men is what they love the most. This is what becomes their own god. Money for some is their god. Others, it is self.
Its just that 1 GOD, has power over all, and the rest.. are weak indeed. I prefer the powerful one.
originally posted by: FyreByrd
Just how does this one 'god' above all others come into being? Because a book told you so? Because a person told you so?
We create god(s) not the other way around.
originally posted by: igor_ats
If someone (iow God) knows your decision before it happens, that is not free will. You might think you do but you do not. You might feel you do but you do not.
I think that's the point some are making here.
What kind of a God would HE be, if we could take HIM by surprise?