Ohio shopper shoots teen dead outside mall for trying to steal newly bought Nike Air Jordans

a reply to: NOTurTypical



The George Zimmermans an gun happy cops in America just love it when they get the chance to be judge jury an executener,



Absurd. The most primitive instinct of any creature is that of self-preservation. Any person is justified when using deadly force if they are defending their own life from being taken from them. And pointing a deadly weapon is clear intent or show of force that if said demands are not met the person will shoot. ...................................................................................................................................................... ...................................................................................................................................................... ...........................Trayvon M artin a teenager/man child was minding his own beeswax yards from his Fathers Girlfreinds front door on the phone .
Armed with a can of juice an packet of skittles.
He was attacked by an illegal sqauter in the complex who refused to pay rent as the house ge was renting was in forclosure,

The house was in forclosure because the deadbeat whom rented it refused to pay rent,
As it was in forclosure?

Trayvons Fathers girlfriend owned her house lock stock an barrel even paid of the morgatge.

Now I know whom I would rather have as a neighbporur a nut job whom made 98 non emergency an 911 calls on a daily basis .
All concerning BHLACK YOUTS Or a hard working upwardly mobile Lady whom never phoned 911 .

Who would you prefer ?

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: NOTurTypical

he was a 16 year old kid who never had the chance to learn from his mistakes.....it is sad when we people decide that they are judge jury and executioner....

Age is irrelevant. When he was killed he was directly threatening the life of an innocent person. That was HIS CHOICE.

Can a 16 year old kill someone with a firearm, yes or no?

can a 5 year old kill with a fire arm ? of course he can....what is your point ?kids make terrible decisions everyday it does not mean they deserve to die for them.......you had better hope if you have kids they do not make mistakes because they might just get killed for them....this might be the world you want to live in and have your kids grow up in it just isnt mine

Bad decisions lead to consequences. Sometimes they are proportional to the stupidity of the decision, sometimes they're not.

I know a girl who wasn't paying attention and stepped in front of a bus and got killed. Bad decision. She's dead. And that was just one momentary lapse of paying attention.

Pull a gun on somebody, get shot. Dead. Bad decision. Consequence was direct result of willful intention to violate another human being. That's the world we live in. You're wishful thinking that it can ever be different is naive, foolish, and counterproductive.

The REASON the criminal pulled the gun was because he believed in what you want - there wouldn't be a consequence for his criminal behavior. The dumbass threatened somebody over shoes and received an immediate consequence. Darwin was right.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

if said demands are not met the person will shoot.

Thats kinda the point a few of us are trying to make
If the guy had of just handed over the shoes the Kid would be alive and the guy would be $200 out of pocket.
If this shooter isnt some Rambo wanna be Psychopath he is going to have some serious issues dealing with the fact he took someones life, that would mess any normal person up regardless of circumstances. Even soldiers who aree trained to kill and could argue are totally justified in doing so have issues when they return from war.

The American "kill or be killed" and "Thats one less piece of Trash on the streets" mentality is really not healthy for anyone.
You can all put it however you want to and play wordgames all day, this Kid with a gun died over a man with a guns reluctance to hand over a pair of shoes.

Im not saying the kids right or deserves sympathy, Im not saying the mans wrong, Im not talking about criminals or gun laws. I originally posted in this thread to express disgust at many posters displaying joy and a feeling of a job well done to a man who killed someone over a pair of shoes.

Ill chime out here as I have nothing else to add other than to say this is a sad and horrible situation for everyone involved and I hope they can all put this behind them and get on with their lives as much as possible

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
no need to try and move the goal posts...and i quote you....

Awesome. Maybe you can show me where any of that has to do with conjecture. I was replying to someone who talked about the mental anguish even a simple robbery causes.

you then turn round to say we should only use facts concerning the matter...so again i quote

Yes. We should. How does my personal disclosure on the matter and my wifes mental anguish have anything to do with conjecture?

so how about you get your facts straight straight hey bud

Take your own advice. My facts never wavered. Bud.

My personal disclosure was about the trauma caused by a "simple" robbery. There was literally zero conjecture in it.

a reply to: Jamie1

i appreciate what you are saying...i realize you came late into the argument...which arose with people celebrating the death of this child....so please before you start up with the insults it would be great if you had a clue of what it was you getting into

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Thats kinda the point a few of us are trying to make

If the guy had of just handed over the shoes the Kid would be alive and the guy would be $200 out of pocket.

So we should all cave in the the demands of criminals?

Im not saying the kids right or deserves sympathy, Im not saying the mans wrong, Im not talking about criminals or gun laws. I originally posted in this thread to express disgust at many posters displaying joy and a feeling of a job well done to a man who killed someone over a pair of shoes.

I can only speak for myself, but my joy is not in a death about a pair of shoes, it was in the fact a person who has displayed a willingness to use a gun to rob others of their possessions can not do so again, making the world a safer place.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
no need to try and move the goal posts...and i quote you....

Awesome. Maybe you can show me where any of that has to do with conjecture. I was replying to someone who talked about the mental anguish even a simple robbery causes.

you then turn round to say we should only use facts concerning the matter...so again i quote

Yes. We should. How does my personal disclosure on the matter and my wifes mental anguish have anything to do with conjecture?

so how about you get your facts straight straight hey bud

Take your own advice. My facts never wavered. Bud.

My personal disclosure was about the trauma caused by a "simple" robbery. There was literally zero conjecture in it.

wow really....you used your personal story to solidify your argument...so you basically used a made up a scenario to promote your argument...which is WHAT IF!!!...your then it around to say we should use the facts .....you can keep twisting it around all you want....facts are just that mate facts

a reply to: TinfoilTP

The second the thug showed the gun, his intent to kill came into existence. The defender then operates on the intent to live, which is legal.

Actually the INTERPRETATION of the intent to kill came into existence.
How many people have been killed while brandishing pellet guns or water pistols because of a perceived threat that was non existent?

You have no idea what was intended by the robber and neither does anyone else, what we do know for certain is the shooter intended to hang on to his new shoes so much he was prepared to kill for them. He was even prepared to put his own life at risk by drawing his weapon and giving the robber a moment to fear for his own life and pull the trigger.
If you cant see that as an issue...... Well Im just lost for words

No other country in the world would a sane person justify this kind of death let alone feel it was a good thing, I really worry about America and what it has become

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Krakatoa

Nothing to see here, just natural selection.. move along.
edit: Dangit, the new girl beat me to it! :-( Welcome to ATS!!

I know this was a sarcastic post (meant to be funny), but, if we ignore these type of stories, and only broadcast and "discuss" cases of bad cops doing bad things, then we do an injustice to all those that do follow the law, and only further glorify the thug mentality.

That's just it he wasn't following the law. The mall has strict rules against guns on their property so the guy could be charged with a misdemeanor.

No, a mall cannot overrule federal laws or the United States Constitution. There are clearly listed areas that you cannot conceal carry....shopping malls are not on that list. This is a common misconception.

Sorry but yes they can because it is private property. As long as the no guns sign is posted where people can see it then you are not allowed to carry a gun on that property and that's the law.

i agree malls should have the right to keep firearms off of their property. but along with such a right comes responsibilities. if they wish to disarm people they then should have to provide armed security to protect those they disarm. also since it is pretty clear that criminals have no respect for laws and rules, they should also insure that everybody in the mall is equally disarmed. that means physically checking each and every person that enters the mall to insure they do not have a weapon. they should also have to provide a secure area for people who do carry guns to leave their weapon at (and of course the mall would assume responsibility for any weapons surrendered to them). such a mall should also be held accountable (along with the criminal) for any armed robbery that occurs within "gun free" areas since they have failed in their responsibilities. this should all be included in any law that allows malls (and other like places), to prohibit the legal carrying of weapons on their property.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
wow really....you used your personal story to solidify your argument...so you basically used a made up a scenario to promote your argument...which is WHAT IF!!!...your then it around to say we should use the facts .....you can keep twisting it around all you want....facts are just that mate facts

False. My disclosure has nothing to do with my argument. The disclosure was solidifying someone ELSE'S argument, about the emotional trauma caused by criminals.

I flat out said the person who broke into our house should not have been killed. There is absolutely no way what I said can be construed in the way you are construing it. It was about making criminals out to be victims and minimizing their crimes.

That has nothing to do with whether this criminal should have been shot. Never once did I use what happened to me to justify the shooting. If you think I did quote where I did, or stop lying.

originally posted by: generik they should also insure that everybody in the mall is equally disarmed. that means physically checking each and every person that enters the mall to insure they do not have a weapon.

They do that in the Philippines.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I can only speak for myself, but my joy is not in a death about a pair of shoes, it was in the fact a person who has displayed a willingness to use a gun to rob others of their possessions can not do so again, making the world a safer place.

Only in America would people feel safe knowing a man who will kill over a pair of shoes is walking the streets, in most other civilised countries the average citizen would think a guy who would risk provoking a man with a gun in his hand over $200 at best an idiot and at worst a very sick puppy who didnt deserve a place in civilised society.
Im not American and it is the very VERY rare individual from OZ, NZ Euopre or even Canada who shares your guys thoughts and feelings on guns and self defense.

You guys say were weak and cowards to not stand up for ourselves
We say your weak and cowards for feeling safe only with weapons

You guys think were stupid and ignorant for having strict gun laws that mean only the authorities and criminals are the ones with guns
We think your stupid and ignorant as your current, if not lax then easier access to guns means that gun crime is rampant and results in senseless situations like this and even more heinous situations

You guys have laws and a mentality that includes "stand your ground" and why "should I give into criminals"
We have "its only material possesions, they are replacable" and "nothing is worth dying or killing for"

Ive spent alot of times in these threads and I have realised that the 2 are not reconcilable, we will have to agree to disagree

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

False. My disclosure has nothing to do with my argument. The disclosure was solidifying someone ELSE'S argument, about the emotional trauma caused by criminals.

like i said you are moving the goalposts to suit your argument...i am not going to continue going around in circles with you....what happened to your wife was not acceptable ...the fear and pain caused to your family was unacceptable....it still has nothing to do with the celebration of death to a 16 year old child

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
If the guy had of just handed over the shoes the Kid would be alive and the guy would be $200 out of pocket.

I really cannot believe I just read that.

If this shooter isnt some Rambo wanna be Psychopath he is going to have some serious issues dealing with the fact he took someones life, that would mess any normal person up regardless of circumstances. Even soldiers who aree trained to kill and could argue are totally justified in doing so have issues when they return from war.

This situation is not comparable to fighting in a war, this was a case of a civillian going about his day and an armed turd attempting to take his possessions by force. Of course the guy will have the thought in the back of his mind forever, but he also gets to continue living his life. A privilege which those who engage in armed robbery should not enjoy, IMHO.

The American "kill or be killed" and "Thats one less piece of Trash on the streets" mentality is really not healthy for anyone.
You can all put it however you want to and play wordgames all day, this Kid with a gun died over a man with a guns reluctance to hand over a pair of shoes.

Again, you display the "lay down and take it" attitude, which is infinitely more 'unhealthy' for the human race as a whole. The kid with a gun died because he was a piece of garbage, there is no deeper meaning in all this.

Im not saying the kids right or deserves sympathy, Im not saying the mans wrong, Im not talking about criminals or gun laws. I originally posted in this thread to express disgust at many posters displaying joy and a feeling of a job well done to a man who killed someone over a pair of shoes.

Of course, people can appear heartless at times. However, in the current state of the world, I think that many of the reactions you speak of were more of a response to someone standing up for themselves and the triumph of good over evil so to speak. When you say "a man who killed someone over a pair of shoes", it sounds as though someone killed someone else to get their shoes. In reality, the man killed someone because they pointed a gun in his face. Can't say I would have reacted much differently if I were put in the same situation.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

Only in America would people feel safe knowing a man who will kill over a pair of shoes is walking the streets, in most other civilised countries the average citizen would think a guy who would risk provoking a man with a gun in his hand over $200 at best an idiot and at worst a very sick puppy who didnt deserve a place in civilised society.

No one was killed over a pair of shoes. A man was killed for trying to rob someone at gunpoint.

Im not American and it is the very VERY rare individual from OZ, NZ Euopre or even Canada who shares your guys thoughts and feelings on guns and self defense.

An Aussie has already spoken up and said he was for it. Can you show me a poll where Canadians believe they should not be able to defend themselves?

You guys say were weak and cowards to not stand up for ourselves
We say your weak and cowards for feeling safe only with weapons

You guys think were stupid and ignorant for having strict gun laws that mean only the authorities and criminals are the ones with guns
We think your stupid and ignorant as your current, if not lax then easier access to guns means that gun crime is rampant and results in senseless situations like this and even more heinous situations

How much of the gun crime is done with legal, registered firearms? What would gun laws accomplish? How did it work for Chicago?

You guys have laws and a mentality that includes "stand your ground" and why "should I give into criminals"
We have "its only material possesions, they are replacable" and "nothing is worth dying or killing for"

You hit the nail on the head, it's not worth dying over, the man did not want to die. The CRIMINAL is the one who brought the gun, making a reasonable person believe it WAS worth him killing over. It's funny how you defend the criminal, who used a gun that could have ended up with someone dead for material possessions.

Ive spent alot of times in these threads and I have realised that the 2 are not reconcilable, we will have to agree to disagree

So we shall. Mainly because you just don't see our positions really are not far apart, only interpretations of those beliefs.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

like i said you are moving the goalposts to suit your argument...i am not going to continue going around in circles with you....what happened to your wife was not acceptable ...the fear and pain caused to your family was unacceptable....it still has nothing to do with the celebration of death to a 16 year old child

No goalposts were moved, literally none. You keep saying it, but have been unable to demonstrate the move.

I never linked the two. Not once. The only thing I used my disclosure for was to show how dangerous making the criminal a victim is, and how minimizing a crime and saying its a simple robbery is wrong, there is no such thing as a simple robbery, emotional scars are real.

It has nothing to do with this person being killed, I never once said it did, and have said numerous times it does not. This person was killed because he pointed a gun and used it to rob someone. That person was in fear of their life and killed the criminal with a gun.

I will always mourn the choices a person made that brought them to that point, and I will always rejoice when my world becomes a safer place.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

To anyone who missed it or has forgotten the original reason me and a few others started posting Ill add a few quotes from the 1st 2 pages of this thread

I love witnessing natural selecting in real-time.
Go Darwin!

And if the cops showed up and had to shoot this gun wielding black thug, the Al Sharpton machine would be starting riots.

If people didn't weed themselves out once in a while, there'd really be a huge over population problem.

I see it as another piece of criminal trash that will never rob or threaten anyone again. And, yes, I celebrate that FACT.

Nothing to see here, just natural selection.. move along.
edit: Dangit, the new girl beat me to it

Love the spin - killed over a pair of shoes?
No. killed for pulling an gun on someone.
"he was a good kid, athlete."
Riot on...

No, we are celebrating this person no longer being able to prey on another human being.

It wasn't sarcasm, nature selectes the most fit and most intelligent. This kid who wanted to rob someone for shoes was a fool.

It is becoming more and more clear that you cant cure STUPID

The celebratory, glib, insensitive, uncaring and totally desentised nature of these posts is appalling.
These comments and the disgust I felt over them are what prompted me to initially post.
Most of the people who posted this nonsense have now scuttled off but I hope those of you who have arrived later can agree that most of these comments are totally wrong regardless of where you stand on the issue.
This is a tragedy not something to extol

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

Some of those I agree with, some I don't. The Darwin comments I can not disagree with you about. Natural selection and socio-economic status have nothing in common.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I will always mourn the choices a person made that brought them to that point, and I will always rejoice when my world becomes a safer place.

if you really believe that i would be led to believe that your time working in mental health has corrupted your own ability to see through the veil

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

thanks for posting that....it really hit a nerve with me seeing that diatribe being posted and is the only reason i am still here going around in circles with occams razor...i think it is about time i bowed out and spent some time with my boy