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Ohio shopper shoots teen dead outside mall for trying to steal newly bought Nike Air Jordans

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posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 03:41 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04




Mind if I ask you a hypothetical?


Please do

Ill edit the answer in this post so as to not clog the thread







Someone robs you at gunpoint. You have the ability to stop them, choose to do nothing and give them your valuables. An hour later you hear they robbed another guy, meant to just pistol whip the guy and he killed the guy.

You have in your possession a magic button you can push, go back in time, and it will kill the man while he is robbing you, preventing him from robbing the next man. Do you push it?




Hmmmmmmmm..........

Thats a tough one, I guess you want a simple answer so gun to my head () Im gonna have to say yes I take the robber out.
But how do I know the other guy wasnt more deserving of death than the robber, How do I know I wont be charged with murder/manslaughter. Simple answer is yes, long answer is maybe but would need more info


edit on 27/12/2014 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 03:46 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
He apparently went to the store with money intending to buy the shoes and only resorted to robbery when they ran out.

Who brings a gun on a normal mall shopping trip to buy shoes?


The guy who shot him is one example haha



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 03:56 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
He apparently went to the store with money intending to buy the shoes and only resorted to robbery when they ran out.

Who brings a gun on a normal mall shopping trip to buy shoes?


The guy who shot him is one example haha




hehe he may need a little time to think about that one



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 03:58 AM
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a reply to: ChaosComplex




100's of people from dozens of countries...care to elaborate?


This year will be my 8th as an expat, unless you really try hard to find fellow country men most of the friends you make will be from all over the world and are usually and unfortunately quite transient in nature only spending 6-12 months in any one place on their contract.
Add to the mix Ive worked in a major hotel and also ran a backpacker guesthouse for 2 months and its a very large and both geographically, racially and economically diverse group of people Ive spoken to.
Most of these people when given the opportunity love to speak about the state of the world and America and its foreign and domestic policies are usually at the forefront of this types of discussions.




If it is widely understood that material possessions are just not that important and are easily replaceable, why is it ok for someone to risk their health by strong arming possessions from other people? If we can't fight back against the attempt at robbery, what is your solution?


When did I even remotely imply that?
I never said we couldnt fight back I just dont think killing someone who is merely trying to rob you (not kill, kidnap, rape, maim or otherwise seriously harm) and then having other people rejoice about it is right.
Read my first post on page 2, I say nothing about the right or wrong of the situation, I simply expressed disgust at the way most posters come off like this some great event that we should all get happy about.

As to what do we do when it happens, personal safety is paramount, get yourself to somewhere safe ASAP then report it to the authorities, and yes most of the time you can kiss your stuff goodbye but once again its only stuff, not worth risking even injury over
edit on 27/12/2014 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 04:04 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
He apparently went to the store with money intending to buy the shoes and only resorted to robbery when they ran out.

Who brings a gun on a normal mall shopping trip to buy shoes?


The guy who shot him is one example haha

He had a permit, and was abiding by the law. I meant who brings one illegally. That is serious thug behavior, taking a gun to go buy shoes?



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 04:07 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
a reply to: OccamsRazor04




Mind if I ask you a hypothetical?


Please do

Ill edit the answer in this post so as to not clog the thread

Someone robs you at gunpoint. You have the ability to stop them, choose to do nothing and give them your valuables. An hour later you hear they robbed another guy, meant to just pistol whip the guy and he killed the guy.

You have in your possession a magic button you can push, go back in time, and it will kill the man while he is robbing you, preventing him from robbing the next man. Do you push it?



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 04:31 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
He apparently went to the store with money intending to buy the shoes and only resorted to robbery when they ran out.

Who brings a gun on a normal mall shopping trip to buy shoes?


The guy who shot him is one example haha

He had a permit, and was abiding by the law. I meant who brings one illegally. That is serious thug behavior, taking a gun to go buy shoes?


Is it possible for a 16 yo to have a gun legally?

An argument that is commonly used by the progun crowd is "Everyone else has a gun, are you suggesting my family should be without safety and protection when everyone else is walking around with a pistol in there pants?"
It seems like everyone has a gun so everyone wants one, maybe its illegal for him but doesnt he deserve to have the same feeling of safety that legal gun owners are entitled to?

Or then again maybe he was carrying coz he was planning on jacking someone for some shoes. To speculate on this Im pretty sure fits under conjecture which you evidently disapprove of so I wont do it





Someone robs you at gunpoint. You have the ability to stop them, choose to do nothing and give them your valuables. An hour later you hear they robbed another guy, meant to just pistol whip the guy and he killed the guy.

You have in your possession a magic button you can push, go back in time, and it will kill the man while he is robbing you, preventing him from robbing the next man. Do you push it?



Hmmmmmmmm..........

Thats a tough one, I guess you want a simple answer so gun to my head (
) Im gonna have to say yes I take the robber out.
But how do I know the other guy wasnt more deserving of death than the robber, How do I know I wont be charged with murder/manslaughter. Simple answer is yes, long answer is maybe but would need more info
edit on 27/12/2014 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 04:46 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
This year will be my 8th as an expat, unless you really try hard to find fellow country men most of the friends you make will be from all over the world and are usually and unfortunately quite transient in nature only spending 6-12 months in any one place on their contract.
Add to the mix Ive worked in a major hotel and also ran a backpacker guesthouse for 2 months and its a very large and both geographically, racially and economically diverse group of people Ive spoken to.
Most of these people when given the opportunity love to speak about the state of the world and America and its foreign and domestic policies are usually at the forefront of this types of discussions.

I appreciate you presenting that information in a decent manner, at this point in our exchange it's common for the jabs to fly freely.



When did I even remotely imply that?
I never said we couldnt fight back I just dont think killing someone who is merely trying to rob you (not kill, kidnap, rape, maim or otherwise seriously harm) and then having other people rejoice about it is right.
Read my first post on page 2, I say nothing about the right or wrong of the situation, I simply expressed disgust at the way most posters come off like this some great event that we should all get happy about.

While I will admit that our conversation hasn't stemmed completely from your original statements (referring to the unnecessary celebration of death), when a gun is presented I refuse to describe the situation as someone "merely trying to rob me". I consider that a direct threat to my safety, and maybe it's the American programming in me, maybe it's the barebones Spartan lifestyle I've chosen to lead, but I'm not keen on handing over my things for fear of bodily injury. The native Americans didn't just hand over their land, and I'm sure as hell not handing over my shoes without a fight. Gun or no gun, if you can take them you can have them. Godspeed, good sir. (That last part was not directed at you, just the angry American in me coming to the surface).

[[Warning: Anecdotal Support Below]]
My thing is, I grew up dirt poor. I'm talking borderline 3rd world country style living. I'll spare you the details. My point is that I had a few prized possessions: my baseball card collection from my grandfather, my baseball glove, and my garage sale acoustic guitar. I live in Florida, we were here for the big fires in 98. Myself and my siblings were up north spending the summer at my grandmother's house. When the fires got to a certain point, there were mandatory evacuations in some areas. Our house was evacuated, and my parents just came up north to where we were and we all drove home together at the end of the summer. When we got home, our house was fine but it had been gutted. Poorest family in the neighborhood, not a damn thing worth a dime in the house, but someone decided to take everything. They left the boxsprings from the beds (took the mattresses) and the couch in the living room. Everything else was gone. My baseball cards, my glove, and my guitar. Everything I had. The only things that were actually mine, stripped from me.

It's unlikely that the man who was being robbed felt that way about the shoes (struggling people generally don't pay $200 for shoes), but maybe he had to work late and put strain on his family life, just to have the extra money for the luxury item. Not everyone who feels 'attached' to an object is being your standard materialistic a-hole.


As to what do we do when it happens, personal safety is paramount, get yourself to somewhere safe ASAP then report it to the authorities, and yes most of the time you can kiss your stuff goodbye but once again its only stuff, not worth risking even injury over

I can't agree with that, and again it may just be the American programming but running to the authorities is almost never the answer. Even as a white male in the U.S.A., I get treated like # by the police. No interest in putting my trust or faith in them.



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 04:52 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Is it possible for a 16 yo to have a gun legally?

CCW .. probably not.


An argument that is commonly used by the progun crowd is "Everyone else has a gun, are you suggesting my family should be without safety and protection when everyone else is walking around with a pistol in there pants?"
It seems like everyone has a gun so everyone wants one, maybe its illegal for him but doesnt he deserve to have the same feeling of safety that legal gun owners are entitled to?

The argument is that criminals do not obey the law, so anti gun laws do not work. This young man is proof of that.


Or then again maybe he was carrying coz he was planning on jacking someone for some shoes. To speculate on this Im pretty sure fits under conjecture which you evidently disapprove of so I wont do it

I do not need conjecture. There is no need to bring an illegal concealed gun to buy shoes.



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 05:08 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

I think its obvious from the fact he didnt shoot first his intention was to intimidate rather than kill.
If killing was his plan the guy wouldnt have had time to draw


Uhm, Sorry! In a situation where someone points a gun at me (or you, or anyone else) you don't usually have time to ponder at length about the "true" intentions of a perpetrator. "Would he REALLY use this gun....or is he just bluffing...?"

If you would come to a conclusion (as you say) "it's obvious he probably doesn't mean it..because he didn't shoot first"....you could be making a grave mistake. Because if you're wrong with your evaluation of such a situation, you might be the one ending up dead. There is no reason to assume that someone who points a gun at you would not also use it. In fact, if you were to think like that you'd do something very foolish.

TBH...I am getting rather sick of all those recent debates, also in the media, where people somehow seem wanting to justify criminal actions. And we're not talking petty crime here.



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 05:08 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04




I do not need conjecture. There is no need to bring an illegal concealed gun to buy shoes.



I dont see anymore or less need whether its illegal or not, definitly more stupid and suspect but the argument for everyone having one so I want one still applies.
The possibility exists that he did just have it for having its sake but used it foolishly without thinking when he couldnt get the shoes ligit.
Once again we are in conjecture territory and we will never know for certain, that said if I was a betting man my money would be on bad intentions as opposed to safety



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 05:15 AM
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edit on 27-12-2014 by SlapTheGinkels because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 05:18 AM
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For the record, I am against killing anyone for any reason. I believe that there is nothing to be learned by being killed (duh) and I may have said it in other threads that I see life as a learning experience. A good old fashioned kick in the ass holds more lessons than a bullet to the chest could ever impart on a soul.

However.

The real problem is that there is some percentage of people who are OK with participating in armed robbery and other violent crimes against their fellow man. How do we curb that? Not by giving in to their demands and alerting the authorities. There needs to be some obvious and immediate repercussions, and not 3 square meals in jail for a few months. We see how well that works...

In a perfect world there would be no desire to do these kinds of things, but we are about as far from a perfect world as I can imagine.



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 05:21 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

I dont see anymore or less need whether its illegal or not, definitly more stupid and suspect but the argument for everyone having one so I want one still applies.

And criminals don't get them .. because .. you know .. they use them for crimes, like this person. If he had a gun, and used it to defend a mother and child I would be right there with you. He had an illegal gun and used it for a crime. Pro gun people say criminals will always have guns. Gun laws only hurt law abiding citizen. This is an instance that proves that true.


The possibility exists that he did just have it for having its sake but used it foolishly without thinking when he couldnt get the shoes ligit.
Once again we are in conjecture territory and we will never know for certain, that said if I was a betting man my money would be on bad intentions as opposed to safety

Again I ask, why would someone simply carry an illegal gun to get shoes? Criminals do that. Which, he turned out to be. The fact he was just carrying to carry paints him in a worse picture. This was not some stupid mistake where he brought a gun along, he obviously carried a gun around with him. Like a thug. It makes me even less sympathetic.



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 05:34 AM
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Maybe Ohio needs a Nikes for Guns program.


“Consumer safety is of paramount importance to us,” Jordan Brand rep Brian Facchini told the Associated Press. “We continue to work with our retail partners to share best practices and refine our launch process to improve the buying experience for our consumers.” - See more at: hiphopwired.com...



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 05:37 AM
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I do not get how so many people can justify such action. Killing is never justified. Period.

Okay, the teens had a gun, but these were just some freaking sneakers and as far as I can see in this case, they just flashed the gun trying to scare the person robbed instead of putting him on gunpoint.

Is really saving the 100 bucks more important than another person´s life? Personally, I would rather give wallet, car or whatever than kill someone trying to take it from me. Its just money, I can buy new stuff, but I can not bring the person back to life. Money comes, money goes. Human life is sacred and it is not my decision whether to take it or not, even if the others person is not making the right decisions. The fact that one person is stupid, does not mean they need to be killed by some other person.

Human life does not have a price tage, whatever amount of money is not comparable to human life, worth taking another person´s life.

edit on 27-12-2014 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 05:49 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
a reply to: TinfoilTP




The second the thug showed the gun, his intent to kill came into existence. The defender then operates on the intent to live, which is legal.



Actually the INTERPRETATION of the intent to kill came into existence.
How many people have been killed while brandishing pellet guns or water pistols because of a perceived threat that was non existent?

You have no idea what was intended by the robber and neither does anyone else, what we do know for certain is the shooter intended to hang on to his new shoes so much he was prepared to kill for them. He was even prepared to put his own life at risk by drawing his weapon and giving the robber a moment to fear for his own life and pull the trigger.
If you cant see that as an issue...... Well Im just lost for words


No other country in the world would a sane person justify this kind of death let alone feel it was a good thing, I really worry about America and what it has become



It doesn't matter if he didn't have bullets in it or if it was made out of soap, the victim had the gun threat flashed at him which is a threat of great bodily harm.
Why do you think the thug used a gun instead of a fistful of flowers? The threat of great bodily harm only comes with a weapon.
There are lots of robbers in jail for a very long time just because they had a gun when the crime was committed. It doesn't matter if all they steal is a pack of bubble gum, if they do it with a gun then they go away for a long time and they are the lucky ones who didn't get legally shot and killed by clerks, store owners, armed guards, good Samaritans or cops.



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 06:09 AM
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And those shoes are fugly too.



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 06:12 AM
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There are rules that you can not carry at that mall.

But these rules are not laws.

These mall rules are civil rules and only apply in civil court.

laws are tried in criminal court.

YOU can not put up a 5 mph speed limit sign on a public street in front of your home and enforce it in criminal court.

but some one can take you to civil court and sue you if the try to enforce YOUR speed limit on a public street.



posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 06:12 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
I cant believe the attitude of most of the posts so far, it was a teenager trying to steal a pair of shoes!!!!
A teenager whos previous record consisted of stealing food, not violent crimes yet you would think hes some sort of mass murdering, child rapist cannibal, Im confident with the right guidance he could have been shown the error of his ways or rehabilitated.

You all agree its not worth dying over a pair of shoes yet you all seem to not only think its OK but revel in the fact you should kill for some, how you cannot see the complete lack of logic in this is beyond me.

I wonder if while this guy was drawing his gun, if the kid had of shot HIM dead if you would all be saying the same stuff?
"GO DARWIN"
"What idiot is prepared to die for a $200 pair of shoes"
"Why didnt he just hand them over then his wife and kids would still have a husband and father"

Somehow I dont think so

To an ignorant outsider like myself as well as many others on this site it almost seems like you guys just cant wait to get a chance to pop what you all consider a righteous cap in someones ass.

Sad story and how any of you can get any joy or a feeling of satisfaction out of this is beyond me.
You live in a sick twisted culture


Ok so based on your logic, criminals should be given the benefit of the doubt?!?! Gun wielding people should be allowed to do anything and the victims should just let them?!?!

Few people that conceal carry ever want to be in a position where they have to use lethal force. Personally I dread that day. However if anyone breaks the law and attempts to rob, assault, or hurt me and mine then they will have made the decision and I will in turn be forced to make mine!

Your passive approach to the a criminal, victim encounter is not logical, it's naive!

What needs to happen is these young criminals need to stop learning values from tv, the street, and friends and start learning them from mentors, fathers, mothers, and the like.

If we followed your logic their would be more criminals, they would be more brazen, and there would be more innocent victims.




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