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The Kecksburg crash occurred around dinnertime on Thursday December 9, 1965. At the time of crash President Johnson was at his White House ranch outside of Austin, Texas. There was no significant call recorded at the time of the crash. In fact, at the time of the impact in Pennsylvania the president was taking his afternoon nap...........
The morning after the crash, however, showed some interesting appearances at the Johnson ranch. The names had direct connections to the groups reported at the Kecksburg crash.
These included: James Webb, Director of NASA.
On the day after the crash Webb left Washington at 7:15am and landed at the ranch at 9:50 the morning. Webb is important because Stan Gordon’s research indicated that a "NASA representative was sent to the site of the crash and interviewed some witnesses about the incident.
" Men in white protective suits with NASA patches were also reported at the crash scene. These strong indications of a NASA role in the Kecksburg recovery fly in the face of the Johnson White House NASA Records at the Johnson Library. They show no direct indication of a crash at Kecksburg, or any NASA involvement. "
....Furthermore, the records failed to even show any knowledge of the Soviet space probe Cosmos 96, which was proposed by some as the cause of all the recovery commotion at Kecksburg.....
...Strangely, the Kecksburg incident was not the first time Webb had met with the President following a rumored UFO crash. Webb also met with the President the two days following the July 8, 1947 Roswell press story of the recovery of a flying disk..........
.....Joint Chiefs of Staff The morning after the Kecksburg crash all members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff flew into the ranch.... (officially this was recorded as for a budget meeting)....
William Scranton The Governor of Pennsylvania showed up in the afternoon. Scranton was one of a number of governors who came to the ranch on December 10, so his arrival was probably coincidental............
...On Sunday night, three days after the crash President Johnson arrived back at the White House. The next afternoon, Johnson met off the record for almost 30 minutes with Buford Ellington. Ellington was the head of the Office of Emergency Planning, is inside the Executive Office of the President. This was one of the groups that appeared to have been involved in the Kecksburg crash........
One of the key people under Buford Ellington was USAF Col. J. Leo Bourassa. He headed up the "Special Facilities Division" within the Office of Emergency Planning.
His name appeared in the Blue Book file dealing with the Kecksburg crash.
...........A week later, on December 16th, another meeting was held and in this meeting Bourassa made an announcement sounded interesting in light of the crash seven days before.
"The Chairman covered briefly the addition new responsibilities placed on OEP/SFD to secure and report information on significant incidents of possible national importance."
Full article : The Johnson White House and the Kecksburg Pennsylvania UFO Crash
originally posted by: miragemanI think the jury is still out on this case. Something came down in Kecksburg but as to what it was remains unknown.
Perhaps this time next year we will know some more with it being the 50th anniversary. If it was a secret experimental US craft or even something Soviet then surely we should be told 50 years after the date?
Raw footage of early “nuclear pulse propulsion" tests aimed at inexpensive interplanetary travel; essentially nuclear bombs driving spacecraft via Newton’s laws. 1963’s Test Ban Treaty damped further experimentation.
The Partial Test Ban Treaty of 1963 is generally acknowledged to have ended the project. However, from Project Longshot to Project Daedalus, Mini-Mag Orion, and other proposals which reach engineering analysis at the level of considering thermal power dissipation, the principle of external nuclear pulse propulsion to maximize survivable power has remained common among serious concepts for interstellar flight without external power beaming and for very high-performance interplanetary flight. Such later proposals have tended to modify the basic principle by envisioning equipment driving detonation of much smaller fission or fusion pellets, although in contrast Project Orion's larger nuclear pulse units (nuclear bombs) were based on less speculative technology.
Project Orion (nuclear propulsion)
originally posted by: skyblueworld
You've showed us a lauch of a chestnut shaped rocket.
What you haven't showed us, is that rocket turn into a craft, come down decreasing it's speed whilst maneuvering itself in ways that several witnesses could not explain.
originally posted by: mazzroth
I think its highly possible before this project ended they advanced it to the point where an Acorn shaped vehicle could manoeuvre and land. This would be the most likely platform as it was around before Kecksburg and is real not some fantasy from outerspace.
What's your source that they actually used nuclear detonations in the tests? They didn't as far as I can tell. All the videos I've seen of the tests look like conventional explosives. The final version was supposed to use nuclear explosions, but I've seen no evidence they ever got that far, and here is supposedly a list of US nuclear tests where I don't see any related to project Orion:
originally posted by: mazzroth
My sole argument on the Kecksburg Acorn hinges on this, the US military where testing propulsion systems were the vehicle was acorn shaped and primarily used small nuclear detonations as the drive source.
Numerous model flight tests (using conventional explosives) were conducted at Point Loma, San Diego in 1959.
So it sounds to me like project Orion tests with nuclear devices never happened but if you have any source that suggests otherwise I'd be glad to review it.
One issue that remained unresolved at the conclusion of the project was whether or not the turbulence created by the combination of the propellant and ablated pusher plate would dramatically increase the total ablation of the pusher plate. According to Freeman Dyson, during the 1960s they would have had to actually perform a test with a real nuclear explosive to determine this; with modern simulation technology, this could be determined fairly accurately without such empirical investigation.
The military lied in 1947 saying it was a weather balloon. That wasn't consistent with the facts which indicate a much larger balloon, which is pretty consistent with the facts, Even Marcel's description of the debris field where he said he was sure it wasn't a weather balloon (and he was right, it wasn't).
originally posted by: deloprator20000
As for Roswell, well, consider the following, there have been multiple "official" explanations, none of which actually correspond to the facts.
The military wasn't the only party lying. You apparently still believe this lie told by Glenn Dennis even though Kevin Randle who also used to tell this same story has admitted Dennis is not credible so he doesn't tell this story anymore, and likewise your other claims are either mistaken or out of context:
Fourth, orders were placed for small caskets, and a nurse claimed she saw "little people". I seriously doubt the U.S. military takes flight test "dummies" to doctors to be attended by nurses, only to be placed in caskets.
There was never any nurse named Naomi Maria Self as he claimed and since that is now proven beyond doubt, there's no reason to believe the rest of the story either. Also see Mazzroth's signature...I wouldn't say "automatically lose credibility", but if he changed that to "credibility should be questioned" I'd agree with that.
Randle, who has used Dennis’ tale in his books, has now abandoned Dennis as a credible witness. When he was asked:
"Who do you think is the least credible of the Roswell witnesses and why?"
Randle replied: "Jim Ragsdale for changing his story. Gerald Anderson for inventing his and getting caught in his lies. Glenn Dennis for changing the name of the nurse once we had proved she didn't exist."
no. the orion test articles are accounted for. one fellow actually took one down from his attic rafters storage to show the son of the original head guru. the son had become a reporter and was investigating project orion because of his dad.
originally posted by: mazzroth
I always thought the Kecksburg acorn was something explainable, here's the most likely scenario ...military does a test of this new propulsion system and blast the thing into space accidentally then they find it and the secrecy around it is actually the fact its highly radioactive.
originally posted by: Blue Shift
While I tend to think that the Kecksberg Crash had something to do with the military, I don't think there are enough dots to connect it to the Orion Project. As far as I know, the tests never got as far as using actual nuclear explosions to drive anything. The ones in the videos are obviously conventional explosives.
My guess would be that it was some kind of malfunctioning Russian space probe that crashed. Possibly nuclear powered, but not using it for propulsion. It kind of even explains why some witnesses saw it change course, as its landing retro-rockets fired.
I could be wrong. Maybe it was aliens. Only the guys who took it know for sure.
You can read what Oberg wrote in 2008 here (pdf).
originally posted by: 1ofthe9
My personal guess is that it was a reentry module of some variety, probably Russian. Oberg would be the one to ask.