Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole....

a reply to: OpinionatedB

good for her...some ladies cant or wont though.
my wife posts on a message board and just yesterday some lady on her board asked the question of what to do when men touch you and you dont want them to....i mean is that even a question?

i guess this lady was getting gas and some guy starts making the comments to her about her being pretty or whatev...she said she looked over but said nothing...then she said he got right next to her and started touching her shoulder and hand...she didnt know what to do...

i dont get how its even a question.....you tell him to get the F away if you dont want him all in your #......if he does not well, gasoline probably makes pretty good mace...

are some ladies(and guys too) scared....

my wife does not play that.....the guy that chooses her to make those unwanted advances on will have a bad day and not by my hand..

a reply to: Grovit

It's all in how we raise our kids. But sometimes, they have to learn their strength. It's all part of growing up I think. And when they learn to stand up for themselves, it helps them in their futures.


I was abused, very seriously for many years.. I learned how to be strong somewhere in there, and knew that I could never teach weakness to my daughter. So I raised her to be kind and loving, but also to know that she was strong and could stand up for herself.

All these things are very important. She was never a bully - but she knew full well how to stand up for herself.

I wish you well in raising your daughter. Sounds like your on a very good track indeed!

a reply to: OpinionatedB

This just shows your ignorance. I live in a mainly Asian area of Manchester how you can say that religious values of the society where you live regardless of the country you live in have no effect is ridiculous. Of course I have a right to defend myself but that doesn't change the effect of the actual attack.
You saying a woman raped in the UK isn't as badly effected as a woman raped in another country because well at least a UK woman may gave more chance of getting the guy arrested?

a reply to: Grovit

women aren't often taught self defense, they are usually taught to get a good man to protect them. Yet... that often backfires right there... the protector ends up being the abuser.

I taught self defense to my daughter. I think its important to know. I think more women should learn it - not to become abusers themselves, because any abuse is wrong... but to defend if need be.

One guy at my work once did that whole touching me thing... I looked at him and said just what in the hell do you think your doing touching me? lol... he responded and said.. I was just feeling your shirt.

I told him be better keep his damn hands to himself.

He never once touched me again. The thing I learned in life, is men who do stuff like that - see women as easy targets, something weaker - when they come face to face with a strong woman, they back off fast!

a reply to: OpinionatedB

i agree with everything you said....
i am trying already to bring my daughter up to be a good person and will continue to try....

standing up for yourself is never a bad thing...is a great thing and has to be done....there are people out there that do not respect others personal space and that is a problem...

i refuse to allow that to happen to my daughter.....
i took it for a while in school cause i was scared.....i remember being scared.....after i more or less got the ok to stand up for myself though, i did and have not had my personal space invaded since......

originally posted by: OpinionatedB

He never once touched me again. The thing I learned in life, is men who do stuff like that - see women as easy targets, something weaker - when they come face to face with a strong woman, they back off fast!

thats all bullies in general...they always go after easy targets....
nobody wants their head cracked open...not even a bully.
same with guys advancing on women that let it happen.....

a reply to: WilsonWilson

The reason I say a Muslim woman is not your reality, is because its a western country with western laws.

If a woman is raped in the UK, she goes to the police. The police take her to the hospital and a rape kit is done. If there is evidence of rape then all dna etc is placed on file and a man arrest, tried, and convicted of rape.

Religion doesn't factor into that. AT ALL.

UK has UK laws. And guess what? Muslim women know this, and they live how they see fit, in your country. They know they can leave their husbands, move, learn to read and write if they don't already know, get jobs if they like and anything else they might prefer to do.

They know this, because the women in their communities make sure the women know it.

A woman who stays in an abusive relationship does it because - regardless of religion - in western countries. Religion doesn't factor into it at all.

Don't think Muslim women are stupid. I have also spent my life as a Muslim woman... I also got my husband deported from the United States and barred from ever re-entering the country.

Stupid we aren't. Your countries have your laws - and Muslim woman know them as well as any Christian or atheist. How someone chooses to live, is their own problem... not yours.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Just because a country has more progressive laws doesn't mean the effect of sexual violence is any less. The conviction rates for rape are abysmal and women are treated treated like crap in domestic violence cases. Look at the way the girls abused in the recent pedophiles cases in rotherham and Manchester were treated. I don't like to single out the Muslim religion most of the mainstream religion marginalized women, and regardless of what country you live in, if men are bought up to treat women as lesser beings, thats going to effect all women they come into contact with. This thread was also started about internet attacks in women, so those attacks could be perpetrated by men in any country on a woman in any other country.

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: Treespeaker

Well, the thing is... If we regulate the internet to 'keep women safe'? We're doing nothing but suppressing 'Her' yet again.

Regulate the internet? No... Doing so - we'd take away (again) a woman's voice. A whole new way she can express herself through HER words, HER art, HER mind, HER being set free, allowed to go anywhere and be anyone SHE wants. And though I am sensitive to young girls who read/hear/experience 'bad things' on the 'net' they shouldn't? That's for her parents to 'police'.
NOT the government.

peace

Silo great comments.

I think that we should just let it all hang out.

Unfortunately we have repressed to many things over the years and with the advent of the internet, we are just seeing how everyone feels, all at once.

Sometimes allowing people to speak be they male/female, allows those people to see their emotions first hand. When someone sees how they are feeling in words they post it does tend to have a dramatic effect over time.

I call it the "Mirror Effect".

When something is posted it serves as a reminder of how we think, feel, and what we have become on the inside, and as long as that person is not a sociopath, most of the time they will learn to correct their behavior.

I've seen plenty of angry people here on ATS over the years, overcome their issues by venting, discussing, debating and chatting with other members. Granted some of them have lost posting privileges, but as time moved on they learned that they are not the only ones on this planet.

As much as people hate Facebook, it is a necessary evil because it does serve as a social mirror. It may take years for people to realize they are complete idiots, but it does allow for a personal diary into ones own life's actions.

I'm quite sure if us veterans had the means to look back, at what we posted on the internet in the beginning, we would have a double facepalm moment for sure.

Peace,

RT

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Again... I would much rather deal with what someone really is... than to deal with some kind of a lie. If you know someone's reality, it is much easier to deal with what that is.

If its bad... then great - deal with the bad for what it is. Hopefully in the process that person will learn something.

It's not condoning rape to say someone should be able to say what they feel - because when someone does that, someone else can come along and speak to them about whatever it is. People grow that way... become better people.

PS. Don't use Muslim women in your arguments. You have no idea about Muslim women... stick with what you know. Its damnable offensive to use my life in your argument... I'll use my own damn life.. you use yours.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: neformore
Do you go to the rough honkytonk and expect the people that hang there to become civilized because you grace the place with your presence? Or do you go to the classier joint up the road? Do you go to 4chan and expect them to become civilized because you are there? Or do you hang at ATS instead?

The internet is like a digital version of the world magnified. You got wild places, and you got places like this. Going to those wild places is putting money in their pocket. Stop doing that if you don't like the place.

I've been around. I've been to the "rough honky tonk". I"ve been a bartender, cocktail waitress and a stripper. I have NEVER heard the kind of language that gets hurled at me online. To be perfectly clear: I worked as an EXOTIC DANCER, for chrissake and no one ever threatened me with violence or rape even in a clearly sexualized and objectified circumstance. Because it is not acceptable behavior. Because it would imply criminal intent. Because there would be consequences for their actions. Or maybe I just "classed up the joint because I graced it with my presence".

You don't talk to people that way even in "wild places". Good grief.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

It's very offensive of you to tell me not to talk about other religions, and the society I live in. I live in a Asian area Muslim women and their culture is my reality and part of my children's reality as the school they attend is majority Muslim. if you don't mix with non Muslim people then fine they are not part of your reality. I live in a mixed area, they are part of my reality. Never mind that as a women I feel the lives and welfare of all women is part of my reality. You want to isolate yourself, fine just don't expect others to.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Your comment was about being "forced" to wear niqab or "forced" to stay in your home.

No one, in the United Kingdom, is going to force you to either wear niqab or stay home... its against the law there. If someone tries to force you to wear niqab, then that is illegal. No one can force you to wear an item of clothing you don't want to wear. You can go to the police over this forced attire or imprisonment.

You, in saying that, were trying to over exaggerate the issue of people speaking their minds on the internet, by using Muslim woman.

DON"T.

If you don't like some of the comments you hear? Learn self defense, and use it wisely. I did. It works well for me.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I have made no comment on this thread about women being forced to wear anything or about women being forced to stay in there homes.
I responded to a comment you made about the fact that if you arent a Muslim woman, you can't talk about Muslim women, which is just a really ignorant line of thinking. I didn't notice you telling any of the men in this thread who used examples of women to stop doing so because they aren't women

how did muslim women even come up?
i guess i missed it but what does that have to do with anything?

maybe it comes down to the things you see when youre growing up.

my mother and i lived with my father until i was 11. he was the most abusive psycho i have ever seen. he used to call my mother filthy, disgusting things in front of me...he used to beat the crap out of her in front of me...

i remember those days and even then i told myself i would never be like my father....
some people(like my father in law) see dad abusing mom and grow up to do the same thing...not just mom but other ladies as well. people like myself(and another example would be my grandfather) grew up the same way but would never dream of treating our wives(or any woman) like that....

I think the issue seems to be that if you object to online violent threats, you're weak. It's just another way of blaming the victim.
There was a situation in the UK a year or so ago, where a couple of college girls set up a feminist group, they received death threats, threats of sexual violence. What's was the colleges response to this? They closed down the feminist group. Would they have done the same if it was an anti racism group. Highly unlikely.

Some on the internet act like those who wear a mask. A mask brings comfort as you have no identity so you dont need to be responsible.

The question is should the few irresponsible punish the majority who are?

When i say punish, i mean having to be identified on the internet or if i continue my analogy ban masks.

a reply to: bitsforbytes

I think the worry is that the threats toward women online seem to becoming increasingly sexual in nature, and what does this say about society as a whole.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: WilsonWilson

No, actually it does not effect your in your western societies. No way does it effect YOUR freedom - your laws - YOUR religion!

You can pretend to care all you want... but going around killing millions of innocent people - most are women and children - really shows the lie about how much you care.

DON't dare use a Muslim woman in your arguments.

And if you want, as women, you CAN stand up to men in western countries. YOU... not someone else.. YOU. And stand up to whatever that reality is for that particular person.

My daughter was in the park with some friends one time, when she was about 14. One of the older boys drove up in his truck with some of his friends, and made "offensive" comments to them.

My daughter, 100 pounds soaking wet and 5'2" tall... walked up to their truck, mind you this boy was 6 foot tall and in sports. But he had not gotten out of his truck. So my daughter walked up, sweet as pie, and smiled at them. Then, she reached in through the window, grabbed him by the back of his head, and smashed his face into the steering wheel.

He got his nose broke. And his grandmother later brought him and he provided an apology to my daughter and her friends for being "offensive"

THAT is how you meet offensive head on... and it teaches a lesson about being rude.

Better a lesson learned, than a lifetime of offensiveness.

That is the strength of women... real strength.

actually, that's not what happens in the real world ( trademark, copyright. ) in the real world, where most everybody else lives, if your daughter smashes the face of a local sports hero into his steering wheel, the whole team finds her later and beats the hell out of her, gang rapes her and then brags about it to their friends till they graduate. they don't come to your house and apologize for your daughter smashing his nose.

that don't happen. where do you live?

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: bitsforbytes

I think the worry is that the threats toward women online seem to becoming increasingly sexual in nature, and what does this say about society as a whole.

no, not sexual, violent. rape is not a sexual crime, it's a violent crime meant to break the will and spirit of the person.