George Osborne proposes two year benefits freeze

a reply to: Korg Trinity

O I agree. and I did find the start up capital.

But the point im making is it did not happen overnight and took time. Time were I needed benefits.

I think its rare one can be in the situation of waking up one mornings and going

"im starting my own business"

Then going on to start it up and running that very same week.

These politicians are all for bringing changes, why the hell don't they fix what's broken before making changes?! Get this:

0 - £2,880 10 per cent (starting rate for savings only)

0 - £31,865 20 per cent (basic rate)

£31,866 - £150,000 40 per cent (higher rate)

Over £150,000 45 per cent (additional rate)

Make sense of that... Earn 100 times more than me but pay the equivalent of 50% less tax whilst saving a shed load of money while because of my lower income most of my money goes back into the economy.

Surely, there should be more incentive for me to save and the richer to save less but put more into the economy?

It seems to me that they are loving the fact that families are spending £500-700 on rent (North West England) when the average mortgage is £350-500. We're in a rental trap in this country where rent is so high, we can't afford to save for a mortgage. It's all a big scam. Tell me fellow yanks, £800 is our average (NW England) nursery fees per month. What are yours? Nursery costs more than our rent which is £600 which is lower than a mortgage on the house we live which is a £125k house.

How do you save (without parents or inheritance) while still affording to live? You can't, they love us in this position, we're like trapped rats.

No wonder so many people opt for a free ride on benefits!!

Let me ask you guys this...

I read that choundry (sp) guy, the muslim hate preacher you finally arrested was on welfare? Also he has several wives also on welfare, each with their own homes.

Now if that is the case, I would suspect this tactic is to slow the money being spent on the violent muslim community without coming out and saying it.

a reply to: crazyewok

And that is part of what the Government is doing - trimming the fat in the Civil service and making it so it isn't a job for life regardless of performance. Predictably, this is one of the reasons the Unions are up in arms and call all those strikes.

If it was down to me, I'd make all Public service employees beholden to the same rules the rest of us have in the Private sector.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: crazyewok

And that is part of what the Government is doing - trimming the fat in the Civil service and making it so it isn't a job for life regardless of performance. Predictably, this is one of the reasons the Unions are up in arms and call all those strikes.

If it was down to me, I'd make all Public service employees beholden to the same rules the rest of us have in the Private sector.

This is one thing I 100% agree with you on.

And to be honnest I think allot of money could be saved here. Same with the NHS.

a reply to: stumason

I don't see how that post even comes close to "typifying" anything, Freeborn. If anything, uforb was promoting people to actually get off their arses and go look for work, not sit around complaining there is "no work in (insert town)"

I guess its all about perspective stu.
And from where I'm sitting it reeks of casual, even arrogant, dismissal of whole swathes of this country and the people who live there.

Many, in fact I'd say most, people on unemployment benefits try tremendously hard to find work.
But to suggest it's so simple as to 'get on your bike' and find work nowadays is just plain ignorance of the realities of finding a job in todays society.

Back in the early 80's when I was unemployed I bombarded countless factories in my home town and the surrounding area with application forms /CV's etc.
I drove to towns and cities both nearby and further afield.

There simply are no jobs like that any more.

The simple FACT is that there are more people than jobs.

Unless someone has a key transferable skill then its pointless moving away because they just won't be considered for any vacancies - apart from possibly Agency work.

A tad harsh, don't you think?

Possibly mate, but that is how an increasing number of people outside of that region are beginning to think.
They are sick to death of the London centric nature of UK society and the attitudes displayed by some in this thread won't help dispel that sentiment.

I live in the "home counties" and I am feeling the pain, as a good deal of my friends are.

Of course I know that stu.
But everything is relative.

I live in what was once regarded as one of the more affluent towns in N.E. England.
You would never know that if you took a tour of this town now.
No major manufacturing, no investment, abundance of empty shops and business premises.
The only things that prosper are Charity and Pound shops - its truly heart breaking to watch.

You know what the difference is though, instead of sitting around and crying about it, we actually get on with it.

Sorry mate, that's bollocks.
That's all we've done for generations - Just get on with it and make the best of it.
Difference is now we are just sick of being shat on from a very great height.

I've worked from Wales, to Cornwall to the Midlands etc - I've gone where the work is.

So have I.
And countless numbers of my friends and family still continually haul arse around this country grafting their tits off.
They are the one's who have the skills that enables them to do so.

But what about the one's who haven't?
Retrain?
Now that is a laugh!
Who will fund it - certainly not the government amidst all their austerity cuts.

Maybe that is the real difference between the "South" and the "North". Down here, we commute all over for work (I am currently sitting in a room with colleagues from Dorset, Kent, Norfolk, Berkshire, and even Belgium)

That's no different to most other places.
Go to Doncaster, Leeds, Sheffield etc and you'll see exactly the same type of commuters etc.

....but some from the "North" seem to want to constantly play the victim card and not actually do anything about it.

Without a doubt some do.
And I wholeheartedly agree these people need weeding out the system - they are a scourge on society.
But what we have at present is the wholescale demonization of everybody on benefits - and this includes the most needy and vulnerable in our society - and that sickens me.
And to think that so many are buying into it.

Yes, reform is required - but this is just persecution - plain and simple.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Korg Trinity

O I agree. and I did find the start up capital.

But the point im making is it did not happen overnight and took time. Time were I needed benefits.

I think its rare one can be in the situation of waking up one mornings and going

"im starting my own business"

Then going on to start it up and running that very same week.

I didn't need benefits.. I worked at Ericsson fixing radio pagers and gsm mobile phones as I was setting up my first business.

See my point?

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

If you read I was stuck on ESA as i was unfit for normaly 9-5 work or any ridgid working hours,

Again the individual, diffrent circumstances ect.


But it negates the point of useing buisness start ups to fight unemployment.

If they are working in a phone shop they are not unemployed are they

We are talking about makeing buisness start ups for unemployed who CANT find work in there area. If there was jobs to go to then this would not be a problem

a reply to: Freeborn

All valid points and I won't argue against them - In fact, I agree that the London centric nature of the setup at the moment is bad for all, even us in the Home counties, as it means we all try to squeeze into this little corner of the UK, fighting for jobs, housing etc, driving up prices all the while getting milked beyond belief to actually use the transport to get us into London.

We may also get paid more down here, but I would hazard a guess and say a sod on £40k in Manchester is a damn site better off than some sod on £60k (or more) in London or the South East.

But, as I have said before, there are efforts underway to try to redress the balance - from some big investments from big firms to the high speed rail which I personally think is an awesome idea. It has to be said that quite a bit of the problem stems from Europe - if it wasn't for EU rules, the Government (of whatever flavour) could do more.

a reply to: crazyewok

And to be honnest I think allot of money could be saved here.

After years of working in the private sector in various roles including Continuous Improvement Manager & Production Manager, I applied for a job with a neighbouring County Council - a position I had a wealth of experience in.
I never received a reply.
A few weeks later I was talking to a friend of mine who worked for that local Authority and he explained that my application wouldn't have even been considered.
He said that Managers in the Public sector are petrified of working with people from outside that sector as they were infinitely more results driven and focussed.

Same with the NHS.

Massive savings could be made in NHS if they stopped paying inflated prices for drugs and supplies.
Far better to strip nursing levels to the bone and keep pay rises to a minimum than minimise the profits of the large pharmaceutical companies......I wonder whose vested interests the politicians are looking after there?

a reply to: Freeborn

Isn't it NICE who buy up the drugs? It is endemic in the Public sector that they simply do not understand how to negotiate a good deal - look at the inflated prices paid for IT systems that simply would not be found in the private sector as an example. I suspect those idiots at NICE are the same..

NICE: "We need some Chemo drugs"

Pharma: "Sure, that'll be £300 a pill"

NICE: "How about £295?"

Pharma: "Er...Ok..."..

NICE person walks away thinking they got a good deal while the Pharma rep can't believe his luck.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Freeborn

All valid points and I won't argue against them - In fact, I agree that the London centric nature of the setup at the moment is bad for all, even us in the Home counties, as it means we all try to squeeze into this little corner of the UK, fighting for jobs, housing etc, driving up prices all the while getting milked beyond belief to actually use the transport to get us into London.

We may also get paid more down here, but I would hazard a guess and say a sod on £40k in Manchester is a damn site better off than some sod on £60k (or more) in London or the South East.

But, as I have said before, there are efforts underway to try to redress the balance - from some big investments from big firms to the high speed rail which I personally think is an awesome idea. It has to be said that quite a bit of the problem stems from Europe - if it wasn't for EU rules, the Government (of whatever flavour) could do more.

Actually its for that reason im tempted to move my buisness from Kent to either uo north or scotland/wales as Idbing in the same wage as my buiness is online based but would have vastly cheaper living expeneses.

a reply to: stumason

To be honest mate, I really don't understand why so many endure the torture of living in London and the surrounding areas.
Obviously financial necessity and familial ties are major contributory matters.

I think it's be better for all concerned if we broke away from the London centric nature of things and instead of dismissing whole regions of the UK we invested real time and money in them and encouraged people to move away from London etc.

Obviously with this would come a diminishing of London's power and control - surely a good thing for all of us?

But, as I have said before, there are efforts underway to try to redress the balance - from some big investments from big firms to the high speed rail which I personally think is an awesome idea.

Speaking from a North East perspective - I see very little investment and what there is reeks of tokenism.
And HS2 is coming nowhere near here.

N.E. England - truly a forgotten land.
We are a lost cause to The Tories so they treat us with complete disregard.
Labour take us for granted so they treat us with complete disregard.

That's not moaning or whinging, just a personal opinion gained from my 49 years of living, working and travelling all over this country.

It has to be said that quite a bit of the problem stems from Europe - if it wasn't for EU rules, the Government (of whatever flavour) could do more.

You're bang on there mate about the EU - we need an honest, open and frank public debate on the EU prior to referendum on continued membership.

You know my feelings about and disenchantment with our current electoral and legislative procedures - we need urgent and radical reform - but me and you have done that topic to death over the years.

a reply to: stumason

Isn't it NICE who buy up the drugs?

I'm not too sure what the process is for supplying into the NHS or who oversees it, but I do know its quite complicated and not really as regulated as one would expect.

It is endemic in the Public sector that they simply do not understand how to negotiate a good deal - look at the inflated prices paid for IT systems that simply would not be found in the private sector as an example. I suspect those idiots at NICE are the same..

Exactly.
I've heard reports of GP's and their practices receiving inducements and privileges to use the products of one manufacturer over another regardless of price or suitability.
I know that surgeons and favoured staff are also accustomed to such treatment.

Its reckoned to cost the NHS literally billions per year.

Yet successive governments seem reluctant to regulate this strictly - I wonder why?

a reply to: Korg Trinity

I think it is you with the warped sense of reality actually, you cant even see your own hypocracy! So... YOU get attacked right? And you gonna whack them yes? But in the damn process you KILL millions of innocent people! Who btw have bloody families JUST LIKE YOURS! Oh but you dont think they will feel like you huh? They are now the ones wronged buddy! And THEY will want their revenge just like you!!

So what is your plan exactly? Just kill everyone huh? Good luck with that cos soon... You gonna run out of money and bullets! And god help you my friend!

The guy raised a valid point... There are many countries not going round the world killing everyone and they are NOT being attacked! It is as stupid as say a mass murderer in your town and then gov dropping bombs on it to get to em! It would be very retarded! What should we say? Ahh well their own fault for living there eh? Should have moved lmao... Too stoooopid.

Ahhh but its not in your country soo cool cool right? lmao...

It is though you think you are the only person i the world that should demand peace!

Not to mention, your bloomin country set most these "terrorists" up! You gave them the damn weapons and training! I seen you around, I know you like to THINK you are smart but you really cant work this out can you?

originally posted by: Freeborn

Exactly.
I've heard reports of GP's and their practices receiving inducements and privileges to use the products of one manufacturer over another regardless of price or suitability.
I know that surgeons and favoured staff are also accustomed to such treatment.
Its reckoned to cost the NHS literally billions per year.
Yet successive governments seem reluctant to regulate this strictly - I wonder why?

When I was working I knew a few medical reps. They all had an entertainment

allowance and would entertain in groups or individually the various GP's in the

area. They also had bonus inducements for GP's of holidays, golfing weekends,

Football seats (tickets) etc. if the practice met the target of the

pharmaceutical company.


I personally don't understand why 'generic' medication is not used for the NHS

and free perscriptions. It would make more sense, and then private medical

treatment could use branded medication?

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: crazyewok

That club represents all that is despicable in the UK.

Indeed they do , here's Cameron and Boris de Pfeffel Johnson in their Bullingdon Club family photo.

Toffs

Clegg Bottom left??

Literally ? Old Nick it may be. Once a bruiser, always...
It's stunning these cloned penguins (who possibly never to
a git worked a day) are largely responsible for flushing the
wealth of literally all but themselves through the pipe.

The burning of several packets of 50's would be good kindling
for a large barbeque however. We may also have to properly
treat the part polyester black feathers with something volatile
to aid the process, but it would be petrol well spent.

I hear the echo of a heartbreaking story of craftsmanship denied
by a young one behind me. I may indeed be fortunate to have
come through secondary school at a time where college entry
was glutted-- and I chose a trade. My only tradeoff was some
cancer and a little over 40 years of losin' some skin. Black metal
day and night.
Oh yes, and that factory full of plastic fumes at the last 15 that
smelled like flaming robot underwear, soiled. Ah, memories...

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: crazyewok

I've had the pleasure of working with people in Reading Borough Council and let's just say there is a reason they are employed by the council - because they are usually poorly motivated and unemployable in the private sector, with a penchant for bureaucracy. I'm sure this doesn't apply across the board, but I saw a whole department of morons rigidly enforcing Council policy with little regard to the people they were supposed to serve.

And maybe we should shake things up and make such jobs....how can we say? More fluid?

Do your job right or we replace you.


Hell making the public sector more efficient and jobs more completive could very well save money. We could be wasting billions or inefficiency.

Oh dear, Crazy, you're advocating a culture of competition
as opposed to entitlement, or maybe even divine right/
nepotism inside the Old Baker? I can picture day One:
Visit Beautiful Catatonia ROFL.
By the weekend we'd have more jumpers than freakouters.

a reply to: stumason
Nothing to do with being Labour or Tory.

Please don't get into the left and right both are as duplicitous as each other in bringing in damaging policies against the British public and generally going along with "The New World Orders" insidious agendas which are at best keeping the work force in austerity so these corporate entities can make trillions at the expense of the common man.
I just listened to the archetypal half wit Cameron basically saying that those that have doubts surrounding government narratives involving 911 or ISIS are basically terrorists.
We are being played,there is enough wealth in the World and those in charge of entities like Walmart get to lobby politicians to bring that many regulations that the common man in the street cannot compete and so double speak is the order of the day.

The biggest cadgers of them all are the Royal family.
It is said the Queen is worth around $23 trillion in wealth.
You tell me that's not one blood sucking nest of parasites on the backs of humanity.

a reply to: southbeach

Two things..

1) Cameron said nothing of the sort...

2) The Queen isn't worth £23 Trillion (which would make her worth 10 x the UK annual GDP)

So, from that we can see you have trouble with basic, verifiable facts, so excuse me if I don't pay much attention to what you say.