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George Osborne proposes two year benefits freeze

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posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Soloprotocol




Clegg Bottom left??

No mate Clegg comes from more humble stock , well to them at least , you need super rich parents to get membership of the Bullingdon Club.

Yeah, Humble stock my arse... 6 Clegg..7 Gideon




posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol

I said "humble stock , well to them at least" which is true.
Osborne's dad was Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet.
Cameron's father was a stock broker and his mother daughter to Sir William Mount, 2nd Baronet.

Clegg wasn't a member of the Bullingdon Club because his father was just chairman of United Trust Bank and so to them most likely an Oik.



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 03:22 PM
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I thought I'd stumbled into a Labour Party conference thread here...

And by that, I mean there seems to be a lot of criticism over the Governments plans but very little in the way of alternative idea's (realistic idea's - we can't just stop paying our EU membership dues like that). It's almost as if Ed Milliband himself had authored the thread!

Put it this way, had Labour won in 2010, we'd be in the same position (if not worse) as France - stagnating economy, massive unemployment and a Government which is beholden to the Unions and cannot take realistic action to deal with the deficit and economic troubles.

Look at Labour now, in 2014 and we see the same moronic attitudes to the economy - if not more so as they seem to have totally forgotten the mess was created by them. A recent survey of Labour party candidates showed that 42% back tax rises, only 13% thought immigration was too high, only 7% thought the UK was to generous on immigrants, 85% though current spending was "about right".. Add this onto Ed Milliband's refusal to even contemplate English votes for English laws and you have a party of clueless muppets.

Say what you like about the Tories, but they know how to run an economy. We've seen taxes cut as well as Government spending and you'd be hard pressed to find many who support continued raising of Benefits when those in work have not seen decent wage rises for a few years.

I find it very hard to be sympathetic to anyone complaining about freezing of benefits (not a reduction - they just don't rise in line with inflation) and the bleeding hearts who scream about "the poor" when those in work and in the middle have been squeezed for years. In 2011 we lost our Tax credits, as I was "earning too much", which meant we lost £1560 a year. No one started threads back then crying about how mean it was, we just sucked it up.

And this "bedroom tax" - again, no one bleated about how unfair it was when, in 2007, Gordon Brown and the Labour Government brought it in for private tenants only. All the current Government did was make it apply to social housing occupants as well who, it has to be said, get their housing a hell of a lot cheaper anyway than the rest of us in the private rental sector.
edit on 29/9/14 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: stumason

Let me guess you will be voting Tory like a good little drone next election?


I say screw the main party's.


originally posted by: stumason


Say what you like about the Tories, but they know how to run an economy.


Not really as you said....



originally posted by: stumason
when those in work have not seen decent wage rises for a few years.



If it was a true economy recovery we would all be get rising wages not just rich and the scum in power.
edit on 29-9-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: stumason
I thought I'd stumbled into a Labour Party conference thread here...


And this "bedroom tax" - again, no one bleated about how unfair it was when, in 2007, Gordon Brown and the Labour Government brought it in for private tenants only. All the current Government did was make it apply to social housing occupants as well who, it has to be said, get their housing a hell of a lot cheaper anyway than the rest of us in the private rental sector.

If the bedroom tax is such a brilliant idea in saving the tax payer money then please explain why someone on benefits in a two bedroom property renting at £70 per week has to pay 14% of that amount but him/herself can move to a 1 bedroom property at the cost of £125+ per week and the tax payer gets to pick up the full tab....??

It's a well known fact that the bedroom tax has cost the Taxpayer more than it has saved....Please in your infinite wisdom explain WHY the Tories have came up with this Brilliant MASTER plan..?

I know, Do you? and it's bugger all to do with saving money.
edit on 29-9-2014 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-9-2014 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-9-2014 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

"A good little drone"? Wind your neck in....

Actually, no. I haven't made my mind up yet, I am not beholden to any one party. Chances are, UKIP will get my vote, but we'll see.

And you seem to be confused about the economy. Yes, we haven't seen great wage rises (although I have seen my pay rise a few times) but the economy is growing, more jobs are being created and it has (to a point) been rebalanced away from relying on financial services. But why should those on benefits (and those in State employ, it has to be said) see their income rise in line with inflation when those in the private sector have had to carry the can?



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol

Do point out where I said it was a "brilliant idea" - I just pointed out that this "brilliant idea" was first implemented under Labour but only for Private tenants, not those in Social housing for blatantly political reason -Labour core voters wouldn't be happy, would they? All I am doing is saying it is fair it is applied across the board.

That said, whether it saves money or not, I do not see why people who get the state to pay for their housing should get an extra bedroom. I'd love an extra bedroom, but having to pay my rent all by myself means I have to put me, the missus and my 3 kids in a 3 bedroom house, so I am actually two bedrooms short of having an extra!



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: stumason

Decisions like that should not be made on bedroom but what cost effective.

As the above poster pointed out why move one at £70 week to £120 just to reduce bedroom.



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: RayVon






It was The Conservative party and George Osborn that managed to get us out of the pit that was left by Labour!




How's that then, By selling us down the river. And giving big corporation tax breaks, selling off what ever they can so other parties don't sell before them.

All just a game for the Bullingdon boy's



This just shows how little you know about how the country works.

Firstly in a GLOBAL economy there is a LOT of competition. How do you expect the government to attract BIG business to operate without giving them incentives to do so?

Why would a company invest in the UK if it means they make far less profit to do so than if they invested in another country??

These businesses come into the country and they generate revenues and positive economic value to our economy.

Korg.


edit on 29-9-2014 by Korg Trinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter



Some do need it, many don't. All we are doing is putting off the inevitable in the long run. There are whole areas of the UK where their time has gone, textile mills aren't coming back to Manchester and the north, coal isn't coming back to the valleys. By funding lay about existence all the benefits do is prolong areas that have no revelance anymore. Those people who descended on Manchester and the north from the rural areas and Ireland two hundred years ago, well it's time to move on again. Their regions relevance is no more.


This one post alone typifies why this country is in the mess it is.
I'm alright Jack.

The best thing this country could do is cut the cesspit that is London and the Home Counties out of this once great land and sink it in the middle of the Atlantic.
Then, and only then, could rUK get on with forging a nation we could all be proud of.



To be honest, it disgusts me somewhat that so many can justify the blatant targeting and marginalisation of the most needy and vulnerable within our society whilst the elites continue to bleed this country dry.

The reason this country is in such a mess is due to the incompetence and avarice of the bankers / industrialists and political elite who front their system - yet they are the one's who continue to prosper.

I could reply in depth to many of the posts in this thread but at the moment I'm just a little too angry and if I'm being honest dismayed at present.

Solo, maybe I was wrong and you were right all along?



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: woogleuk

originally posted by: crazyewok

Not everyone has the ability to run a business.

Plus you need money to start a business! People who have just had there benefits slashed not not going to have the money to start a business.





I agree with a lot of what you are saying Ewok, but not that bit.

I was on benefits for nearly 2 years, and not through lack of trying could I not find work. I went on job placement after job placement (unpaid, courtesy of the jobcentre), and there was nothing in my field of expertise, or at least not taking on.

So, I said bollocks and with my next £145 fortnightly giro I set up my own business, that was 2 years ago, and now I am finally seeing some decent rewards from my hard work.

You don't need money, you just need the drive to make something of your life.

From benefits and nothing to a well respected IT support company in the local area in just 2 years? If I can do it...


This made me laugh, and congratulations on your business!


Those on benefits don't have enough money to start a business???

Come on seriously?

If you have enough business acumen to run your own business, you should have the acumen to raise the capital yourself!

And before you say I don't know what i'm talking about.. I built the UK's first independent ISP back in the 90's and I started with nothing more than an IDEA!

Korg.


edit on 29-9-2014 by Korg Trinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

So there was ample housing for those who are stuck with too few bedrooms but can't find a house big enough, perhaps?

Regardless, I fail to see any reasonable argument for why the State should pay for you to live in a house that is too big for your needs. If you want the bigger house, then pay for it, like the rest of us.



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Korg Trinity


If you have enough business acumen to run your own business, you should have the acumen to raise the capital yourself!


So money just grows on trees?

It took me nearly a year to scrounge enough money to start my business.

If my benefits had been cut in that year I would never have been able to afford it. those benefits got me through the months it took me to raise that capital.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

And before you say I don't know what i'm talking about.. I built the UK's first independent ISP back in the 90's and I started with nothing more than an IDEA!



Yeah good for bloody you.

Not everyone you. Not everyone has the skill set or idea to set up a business for nothing.

For my skill set I needed £10k of capital and that took time to raise.



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Oh how i wish for another Clement Attlee to come along.

A man of The People and for The People.

The greatest Prime Minister that the people of Britain has ever elected.



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: crazyewok

So there was ample housing for those who are stuck with too few bedrooms but can't find a house big enough, perhaps?

Regardless, I fail to see any reasonable argument for why the State should pay for you to live in a house that is too big for your needs. If you want the bigger house, then pay for it, like the rest of us.


Hear Hear!

The purpose of the bedroom tax was exactly that.

There was an initiative for social house swap, all the housing associations were involved... What they found was everyone wanted to trade up but those in large houses never wanted to trade down.

So... the bedroom tax came into effect.

But I must agree it was implemented incorrectly, much like the poll tax was actually a great idea but wasn't put in to action in the spirit it was meant.

Korg.



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: stumason

So there was ample housing for those who are stuck with too few bedrooms but can't find a house big enough, perhaps?

True point.

originally posted by: stumason
Regardless, I fail to see any reasonable argument for why the State should pay for you to live in a house that is too big for your needs. If you want the bigger house, then pay for it, like the rest of us.


Again it should be down to cost effectiveness and demand.

Sure if there is demand in the area for a 2 bedroom house and there are 2 bedroom houses with 1 occupant then sure move them

But if there is no demand and its not cost effective as has been in SOME cases the whats the point? Your spending money then just to be a dick and that's counter intuitive to wanting to SAVE money. If you are going to do it do it for saving money and efficiency not just to be a dick.


what im saying each case should be assessed individually not by some faceless bureaucrat who ends up costing more money not less.
edit on 29-9-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
This one post alone typifies why this country is in the mess it is.
I'm alright Jack.


I don't see how that post even comes close to "typifying" anything, Freeborn. If anything, uforb was promoting people to actually get off their arses and go look for work, not sit around complaining there is "no work in (insert town)"

I remember a poster a couple of years back crying about how there was an industrial estate near her house yet she couldn't find work - when asked if she looked any further than round the corner of her house, she got quite uppity and asked why should she? She expected the work to come to her. She wouldn't even entertain the idea of going to the next town over.


originally posted by: Freeborn
The best thing this country could do is cut the cesspit that is London and the Home Counties out of this once great land and sink it in the middle of the Atlantic.
Then, and only then, could rUK get on with forging a nation we could all be proud of.


A tad harsh, don't you think? I live in the "home counties" and I am feeling the pain, as a good deal of my friends are. You know what the difference is though, instead of sitting around and crying about it, we actually get on with it. I've worked from Wales, to Cornwall to the Midlands etc - I've gone where the work is. Maybe that is the real difference between the "South" and the "North". Down here, we commute all over for work (I am currently sitting in a room with colleagues from Dorset, Kent, Norfolk, Berkshire, and even Belgium) but some from the "North" seem to want to constantly play the victim card and not actually do anything about it.

Honestly, if I was living in "the North" and couldn't find work, I'd move. In fact, plenty of people from "the North" do, not that there isn't work available up "North" anyway. Fact of the matter is, those who seem to do best in life are the one's who are prepared to go where the work is.

edit on 29/9/14 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: Korg Trinity

That's what I was saying, I was on benefits, had nothing and still managed to start up a pretty successful business....and never once, to this day, got a loan/grant/credit card.



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:21 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Korg Trinity


If you have enough business acumen to run your own business, you should have the acumen to raise the capital yourself!


So money just grows on trees?


And this way of thinking is why you won't be running your own business.

Perhaps if you were to have an enterprising idea and could prove it to be profitable, someone may invest! That's what I did... started wit zip... raised £250k to start a business.... I had exactly nothing other than my noodle to work with!

Korg.



posted on Sep, 29 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: woogleuk
a reply to: Korg Trinity

That's what I was saying, I was on benefits, had nothing and still managed to start up a pretty successful business....and never once, to this day, got a loan/grant/credit card.



I know you were and I absolutely agree with you


Korg.



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