Black Triangle UFOs and an Alleged Breakaway Civilization- Discuss

originally posted by: The GUT
That's what me and my 89 yr old pop (retired AF) were speculating on. Whatever was floating down didn't look like chaff he had seen, but maybe it's the same thing using a different material?

Lots of types of chaff. Different materials, different lengths for different bands. All should be chemically inert.

Disclaimer: I have not yet reached my mandatory 20 post limit so I am currently unable to reply to any u2u's sent by members unless they are staff/mods. Please be patient with me.

Ok, so here is my story ...

Once upon a time in the early 20th century a mad genius discovered Superconductivity in mercury using liquid helium and this data point puts a potential starting date on my stories timeline.

Date of Discovery: 1911

Superconductivity was discovered on April 8, 1911 by Heike Kamerlingh Onnes, who was studying the resistance of solid mercury at cryogenic temperatures using the recently produced liquid helium as a refrigerant. At the temperature of 4.2 K, he observed that the resistance abruptly disappeared. In the same experiment, he also observed the superfluid transition of helium at 2.2 K, without recognizing its significance. The precise date and circumstances of the discovery were only reconstructed a century later, when Onnes's notebook was found. In subsequent decades, superconductivity was observed in several other materials. In 1913, lead was found to superconduct at 7 K, and in 1941 niobium nitride was found to superconduct at 16 K.

Great efforts have been devoted to finding out how and why superconductivity works; the important step occurred in 1933, when Meissner and Ochsenfeld discovered that superconductors expelled applied magnetic fields, a phenomenon which has come to be known as the Meissner effect. In 1935, Fritz and Heinz London showed that the Meissner effect was a consequence of the minimization of the electromagnetic free energy carried by superconducting current.

Date of commercial application of technology: 1962

The first practical application of superconductivity was developed in 1954 with Dudley Allen Buck's invention of the cryotron. Two superconductors with greatly different values of critical magnetic field are combined to produce a fast, simple, switch for computer elements.

In 1962, the first commercial superconducting wire, a niobium-titanium alloy, was developed by researchers at Westinghouse, allowing the construction of the first practical superconducting magnets.

So we have a 51 yr gap [1911-1962] between the discovery and the commercial application of the technology and this meets with our common conspiracy theory that the military technology is up to 50+yrs ahead of the public application of such bleeding edge technology.

2ndly We have the issue of Microwave oven technology being the driving factor behind my story.

Date of Discovery: Prior to WW2 1940's

Percy Spencer invented the first microwave oven after World War II from radar technology developed during the war. Named the "Radarange", it was first sold in 1946. Raytheon later licensed its patents for a home-use microwave oven that was first introduced by Tappan in 1955, but these units were still too large and expensive for general home use. The countertop microwave oven was first introduced in 1967 by the Amana Corporation, which was acquired in 1965 by Raytheon.

Date of Commercial application of the Discovery: 1967

Again we have a long 20+ yr period where the technology was dark and used by military forces long before the commercial application of the technology was ever brought about.

Both Commercial application of the technology dates put a lower limit on when we could of reasonably expected the technology to work garanteed.

This points to the mid 60's as the time we can reasonably expect the military to be building Black Triangular Craft based around a possible Em Drive propulsion unit, which by funky fact is 50+yrs ago.

Who came up with the Em Drive concept and when?

Robert Shawyer

Shawyer conducted aerospace research and development work in the defense sector in his early career, eventually transitioning into various positions at EADS Astrium (formerly Matra Marconi Space). He worked on the European satellite navigation project, Galileo, in a consulting role.

In 2001, he founded Satellite Propulsion Research Ltd, financed with private investments, grants, and commercial contacts.

Em Drive

Shawyer claims to have undergone seven independent positive reviews from experts at BAE Systems, EADS Astrium, Siemens and the IEE.[15] As of 2014, no EmDrive has been tested in microgravity.

Shawyer speculated in 2006 that, with adequate funding, commercial terrestrial aircraft incorporating EmDrives as lift engines could be ready by 2020. He proposed that very high Q superconducting resonant cavities could produce static specific thrusts of about 30 kN/kW, which is 3 tonnes of thrust per kilowatt of input power − "enough to lift a large car"

So the superconducting is very important to get maximum thrust for minimum power input.

If Shawyer's concept Em Drive existed previously in the military black projects realm then the technology to drive it already has existed for more than 50+ years and it may have been possible prior to ww2 for such nations such as the Nazi Germany with their Die Glocke spacecraft.

To put that in context, Project Orion was only just completed and wound up as shelf project in a limited sense by the very late 1950's very early 1960's.

This means that since we are assuming we are the breakaway organization that we have to make a decision on which technology to use, balloon rides with a partially constructed Project Orion completed and launched on the far side of the moon OR something far less tricky and far less costly in the form of Black Triangular Craft driven by an Em Drive/Thruster?

So why is the superconducting important again?

Because both Nasa and the Chinese scientist who tested out Shawyer's concept Em Drive did not make the cavity superconductive and Nasa tested it at very low power [17watts] but got instant thrust confirming Shawyer's design and the Chinese tested their version at 1 to 2.5 Kilowatts of power and neither results produced anywhere near 3 tons of thrust [only 720MicroNewtons (720grams] of Thrust at 2.5Kilowatts microwave power input] and so the superconducting is extremely important critical factor and can not be simply ignored or overlooked as it both drops the required inputed power to be effective AND increases the maximum mass it can carry.

That is important when it comes to me doing some maths to highlight some interesting pro and cons associated with the possible functionality of the Em Drive.\

Example IF we take a 3ton maximum mass spacecraft propelled by a single highly effective Supercooled Em Drive that accelerates that spacecraft at 1m/1s every second as long as 1kilowatt of electrical power is supplied by some power system that weighs far less than the 3 tons max carry the thruster can lift.

So we travel 1m in the 1st second, then 2 meters in the 2nd second for a total of 3meters traveled and after 340 seconds [5mins 40sec] we would be traveling at mach 1 [340m/s at sea level] and after a whole 24hr day we would be traveling at some 86km [86000+m] per second [8 and a bit times the speed of the returning Apollo capsule] and after a whole year of accelerating at 1m/s every second we would be traveling 10% the speed of light [C] at over 30 million meters every second = 30,000km/s !

Cont next post...

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Honestly if I saw something cool or unusual in the sky I wouldn't care to miss it attempting to pull my phone out of my pocket and fumble through unlocking it and then pulling up the camera app, then aiming, zooming etc. Why spend 5 seconds playing with a phone when you could have spent 4 seconds and not missed badassedness flying/floating overhead. The hell with that, Im not going to waste a good personal experience attempting to "prove" to internet people who couldn`t care any less a day or so after while My mind is still blown.

Of course I would run right to ATS and post it for the few people who would appreciate it out of excitement but I really don't care who believes what anymore, my mind is more important, that's sort of why I gave up trying to explain my personal views and happenings.

a reply to: ForeverMan

Uh....I never said anything was a story? You confused me with that reply, but regardless I do look forward to your future posts.

a reply to: Jukiodone

Reading that post made me think of that story making the rounds awhile back about how some USAF officers were ordered to drop a nuke on the East Coast and instead dropped it into the Atlantic. I really cannot remember if that turned out to be a Hoax or not but that popped into my head when you mentioned the part about holding some of the population as hostages. Someone else might remember more until I can find those threads.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And Zaph, being thick, could you explain the "not an aircraft" and "not manned" statements ...if you are able? Or point to where I can glean the meanings?

The 'not manned' can mean other things than drone... and the 'not aircraft' ...well, any clarification you can offer will be gratefully received by myself and others too proud to admit their idiocy.

I don't want to be too exasperating ... but I'm admittedly tech deficient (and deficient in other arenas as well). I also do not want to get anyone/organization in trouble...

a reply to: Baddogma

The system in question is DoD, not a specific service. You'll see something interesting but it won't be an aircraft.

a reply to: ForeverMan
Welcome, ForeverMan... I am curious as to where you are going... please continue.

If you haven't already, care to explain your take on the story being discussed? Are you personally involved or an informed "outsider?"

a reply to: Zaphod58

Hmmmm. Gunna start looking at the various bases and what they are tasked to do including the "closed" bases. And who would have control over the project. AF, NAVY, CIA, NRO? All of them could probably use it's capabilities. Lots of places to hide such a craft.

San Clemente isle. But they let you hike all over it. Probably not a good place. Edwards already has their hands full with the B3 and the green machine. Norton maybe or some other closed base. Vandenberg they launch a lot of space stuff there I think? (not really sure but I thought they did) Tons of UFO sightings around there.

Hmmm lots to research.

Well either way we got something sweeeeet flying up there. If I were a foreign adversary I'd be Crapping in my pants right now.

a reply to: Baddogma

Chaff is the most likely.

Project Condign considers "Angel Hair" to be Dusty Plasmas.

For that you'll want Vol #2 Parts P and Q (working papers 19, 25)...

PC

a reply to: Bybyots

I see... ding, ding... winner! Makes sense ... well, enough sense for an armchair wannabe like me, anyway.

Veeeeely interesting...

a reply to: Bybyots

Yes, that is interesting. It didn't catch my attention when I read the report (what's available) through.

A dusty plasma is a plasma containing millimeter (10−3) to nanometer (10−9) sized particles suspended in it. Dust particles are charged and the plasma and particles behave as a plasma.[1][2] Dust particles may form larger particles resulting in "grain plasmas". Due to the additional complexity of studying plasmas with charged dust particles, dusty plasmas are also known as Complex Plasmas.[3]:2

Dusty plasmas are encountered in:

• Industrial processing plasmas

• Space plasmas

• The mesosphere of the Earth[4]

• Specifically designed laboratory experiments[5]

Dusty plasmas are interesting because the presence of particles significantly alters the charged particle equilibrium leading to different phenomena. It is a field of current research. Electrostatic coupling between the grains can vary over a wide range so that the states of the dusty plasma can change from weakly coupled (gaseous) to crystalline. Such plasmas are of interest as a non-Hamiltonian system of interacting particles and as a means to study generic fundamental physics of self-organization, pattern formation, phase transitions, and scaling.

en.wikipedia.org...

However, what I saw wasn't uniformly structured nor did it give a sense of plasma. Fascinating and pertinent to other questions though.

"...Phase transitions, and scaling," sounds really interesting, for sure.
2nd

a reply to: Baddogma

Aha! The threads Original Poster! Starred! [I will flag this thread when I have achieved my mandatory 20 posts on ATS]

Thank you for your kind welcome and to be quite blunt I am pointing up and off the planet as fast as possible for all of us.

I am talking about going to low earth orbit for the fuel cost of a tank of petrol/gasoline.

I am talking about mechanics retrofitting out welded up cars with old retrofitted microwave ovens a few bottles of liquid hydrogen and buzzing the ISS with a 3 Kilowatt radio transmitting The Rocket Man song . LOL!

I am talking about farming in space inside spaceships that we ourselves build and giving mother nature and mother earth a break from us and us a break from her.

My take on the story being directly discussed in this thread by our fellow ATS members is that was a dream story and about keeping the spirit of dreaming alive in the face of extreme doom and that beyond that it would be unwise to stand firm on anything else contained within it lest I risk my membership for posting false information.

I am not here to confirm or deny the other story's premise or data points

I'd rather just paint another picture and highlight what seems obvious to me. and let my fellow members decide for themselves if what I point out paints a credible picture or not ok.

I am very tired now. I shall go to bed and refresh and I shall continue posting tomorrow!

a reply to: ForeverMan

I welcome your next series of posts. I enjoy reading them.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: BASSPLYR

You'd think it wouldn't be that hard to drive a few congressmen out the desert for a secret demo...

Actually, I think it would be, now with all those pesky 'ethics rules' about accepting gifts and liquor. And then people asking questions where they were.

I guess the """F-35""" program is going to keep on getting its massive funding down the black hole.

I wonder if this is the F-111/F-117 replacement (low fast-attack aircraft), or as BASSPLYR suggested, a multi-role platform depending on what sort of cargo the triangle is taking. EW and fast-attack seem like they can go on the same airframe, just like F-111 and EF-111.

Perhaps they were trying to scare the government officials because they are against the triangle program (being break away)...?

uh, getting found with child porn on their home computers works much better. Are the MenInBlack going to bomb a house in Arlington or Beverly Hills with a supersonic bomber or something?

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Zaphod58

Hmmmm. Gunna start looking at the various bases and what they are tasked to do including the "closed" bases. And who would have control over the project. AF, NAVY, CIA, NRO? All of them could probably use it's capabilities. Lots of places to hide such a craft.

San Clemente isle. But they let you hike all over it. Probably not a good place. Edwards already has their hands full with the B3 and the green machine. Norton maybe or some other closed base. Vandenberg they launch a lot of space stuff there I think? (not really sure but I thought they did) Tons of UFO sightings around there.

my go-to secret base in LA area is San Nicholas island, but if it's in development, the obvious choice of Edwards is probably it. Where do the manufacturers have their facilities?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Baddogma

The system in question is DoD, not a specific service. You'll see something interesting but it won't be an aircraft.

DoD, not a specific service, not an aircraft.

DIA satellite? Also thinking about missile defense but I thought that was AF Space Command now.

a reply to: mbkennel

Who knows maybe some sorta crazy ray or beam or haarp like thing.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

The most obvious explanation is that the drivers (on or offboard) are being trained in low-level flying and they're testing a high-EMF urban environment. Take off from Edwards make a circle, take the mountains in Ventura county (Pt Mugu), do some ocean training & testing, then back in and turn back up to home base.

They might have virtually bombed Staples Center 20 times by now. Better shooting %age than Kobe.