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You have all been duped.

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posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 11:20 PM
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tsk tsk. So sure you are, that you are right. Yet, no proof have you.

I think you should have some research or more ideas that just "Cover up for aircraft projects"


If my freind derek_Psycho911 heard this hed be minus 10000000000 ATS points or banned from the sight




posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

I think you had been seeing to much T.V. You sir are
starting to sound like Agent Mulder on the X-Files!!


You mean Scully...SHE was the skeptical one...Mulder ALWAYS leapt to the fantastic first...

Example:

They'd find a body, completely drained of blood.
Scully: "Obviously the victim was killed then brought here..."
Mulder: "I don't think so...see these punctures on the neck? That's a vampire bite!"


LMAO
poor ol Mulder, But he wanted to beleive!



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by XL5
I wouldn't ever post it on the net, I'd demo it to people and hand out instructions. The internet is too easy to control and it just be one more free energy site on the net and no one would give it any thought.

I think its the only way to change things, since the terrorists already have powerful wepons and free energy is more of a tool anyway. If people saw free energy , they may open up to the posibility of aliens and or the govt/mill may disclose at least some of it.

So when are you going to see them?


You are asking me for a date when I will see aliens? I don't know, I said I can feel that I will soon, I hope that I will soon, it's a gut feeling I got. I could be wrong, but I just sense it. I think we can all see them, but that they never show themselves if we are afraid.

I think it's great that you are experimenting with free energy. Are you aware of the newenergymovement.org? It's the guys from Disclosure Project trying to front the shaddow government on two fronts at once. They explain this in their material. Good luck with that project! I hope for all of us that you will succeed!


Sincerly

Cade



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 02:21 AM
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OK...Let The BIBLE prove the existence of extra-terrestrial life. It speaks of fallen angels mating with human females. Angels are from an NON-EARTHLY existence.

This would, scientifically, and somewhat logically, create an alien-human hybrid. Yes, i know, I sound like Fox Mulder.

But if people for THOUSANDS of years have believed in angels, and a record like this is written in what is clearly established to be the most bought and published book of all time, the Bible itself, then, logically, i think it is more than safe to conclude that it isn't a stretch to believe in aliens, ufos, or visitations from other worlds.

Also, scientists have concluded there are MILLIONS of stars, asteriods, and galaxies out there, and have said so for years. Are we IGNORANT enough to be so egotistic as to think we are the ONLY sentient life in the universe ?

Will you live your life in a box, with a limited view of life ? I know I don't want to.

Paul



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 03:23 AM
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Sure, the Bible which was written by a tribe of nomadic desert people "scientificly" proves the existence of aliens.
There is no proof of god in the first place. The bible was written to justify the practices of the ancient hebrews. People for thousands of years have also not "believed" in the existence of angels.

It is still amazing that after all these thousands of years of so called ufo sightings, that we have no tangible evidence.



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 03:32 AM
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Frosty, I bet you cant produce "tangible evidence" that the world is a sphere either, but we all know it is dont we. show me proof! A first class plane ticket around the globe might sway me!



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 03:34 AM
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Frosty...you sound as cold as your screen name. The very fact that you live and breathe and do not exist like primevil pond scum should be proof enough that there is a higher being, a higher dimension of life, call it what you will, God, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, allah, we ALL believe in some sort of existence or some higher being, even people that may SAY they don't believe.

There are other stories in the Bible that prove an existence of higher planes or dimensions, the story of Jacob's ladder, which modern scientists have used in recent days to support DNA research (it's weird yes, but ive read a few articles, out in the ozone, but aren't we all looking for some sort of scientific, personal, or spiritual truth out of life ?)

YES...I WANT TO BELIEVE.

If you don't, hey, thats cool too, I'm not here to argue or debate, just merely extend my thoughts, the same as you.

Paul



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 03:40 AM
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It is still amazing that after all these thousands of years of so called ufo sightings, that we have no tangible evidence.


Even if there was "tangible evidence" you can rest assured that it would vanish in no time.Take a look at the Varginha case from Brazil.Allegedly a craft crashed with the occupants roaming the countryside.
Military activity increased dramaticly, even an American task force was reported to have landed within a day and took all the evidence with them.While I'm sure that's not good enough for you, check out a tv documentary about that case and hear out the witnesses.Me personally I was very amused when seeing the Brazilian base commander being interviewed, he lied through his teeth and came up with the most silly explanations.
Here's another hint for you Frosty.Check out documents released under the Freedom Of Information Act.Apparently behind the scenes, the "alphabet organizations" show a profound interest in UFO sightings.Perhaps they're duped too?



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 03:49 AM
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instar, I hope that is a joke. There was tangible evidence to prove the earth was a sphere when Archimedes and his counterparts were able to derive a formula for calculating the circumference of the earth.

drpsmartin, not everyone believes in a higher entity. Even so, this higher entity itself must have been derived from another higher entity to support your claim.



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 03:51 AM
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Thats not "tangible" frosty. Thats mathmatical calculation, could be faked!



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 04:10 AM
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Lighten up...we're not scientists, we're not debating, I'm merely putting thoughts out for people to discuss. Your explanations are yours, and mine are just what I think.

We may very well be ALL that there is...but I, for one, have no desire to be so presumptuous as to go so far as being closed minded and saying that our opinions, our lives, our little pea-brained world is all that there is.

You can't prove or disprove life outside the earth, nor can I, I assume you have never left the earth, been abducted by "Aliens" (Ha Ha), rode on the space shuttle, or lived on the International Space station.

I know I haven't, and, last time I checked, "Scotty" hadn't beamed me on board the Enterprise.

SO LIGHTEN UP, DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY, we are just here to discuss things of interest to us...we DON'T have to agree, OK ?

Paul



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by instar
Thats not "tangible" frosty. Thats mathmatical calculation, could be faked!


Bwahahaha, you just making your and everyone else's claims of the existence of aliens (which has no tangible evidence) sound more and more laughable. No, the calculations were not faked, pi was as Archimedes found it to be the same as today, an the ancients weren't more than a few miles off the correct calulation. A Plain ticket wouldn't prove anything, that too could have been faked. If you want proof that the world is round, I suggest you get inside a small canoe, paddle as far out into the Atlantic, then take a pair of binoculars and watch as the coastline is lost.



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 04:11 PM
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quote: It is still amazing that after all these thousands of years of so called ufo sightings, that we have no tangible evidence.


Well how about this link www.xfacts.com...

I've posted it before, but I wanted to hear your comment on it Frosty.



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 05:38 PM
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Why does it have to be one or the other?

That is our greatest mistake in the UFO community is thinking ALL of them must be right or ALL of them must be wrong.

Why cant some be true, some mistake,s some lies, some Government projects, etc?

I think this is MUCH more likly than ALL of them being anything



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by thelibra
Do I think it's visited us yet? Probably not... if so, we'd be toast.



Originally posted by LadyVRealy!? Why is that?..and you are right..some of has had encounters and therefore, while we can't "prove" it, we know. Aaaaanyway...why do you think we would be toast? Doesn't make sense to me.


While, of course, I do leave myself open to the possibility that there have been visitations by aliens in the past, I think it far more likely that there are sentient extra-terrestrial species that, thankfully, have not encountered us yet.

As for why "we would be toast", my answer is based off of the only life forms I am currently well-educated in, Earth Life.

Every animal on Earth needs at least basic resources: food, mates, water, or shelter. From the lowly worm in the dirt, to the fish in the sea, to birds, to humans. And almost all of these animals stake out a territory of their own. The more advanced or specialized the needs, the more likely the chances of staking out the territory. This territory is, almost without fail, brutally defended against others who seek out territory of their own, so that their own needs can be fulfilled. This can be observed from the insect kingdom, to wolf packs, to tribes of monkeys, to human wars over the centuries. Life is inherently both gregarious and xenophobic. There are exceptions, but these exceptions are few and far between in comparison. Xenophobia is the rule. The more advanced the life form, the more xenophobic, because the territorial needs are more as well.

Now imagine how advanced a lifeform that has the capability to travel planets must be. We are quite clever little apes, and we haven't even visited the moon since the 70's. Say a species had the ability to construct ships and man crews that could travel between Pluto and Earth with a craft that is only the size of a house, or smaller. Now imagine how advanced they would have to be to travel between stars. Their resource needs would be almost incomprehensible to us. Their need for territory would like be that of an entire moon or planet.

If they were to discover Earth, this species would care little for the advances of human civilization, except as a nuisance to be dealt with. We would be viewed in the same light as the Aztecs were by the Spanish conquistidors. They had buildings, weapons of war, art, religion, and--racial differences aside--pretty much looked the same as their discoverers... but this did nothing to stop the Spanish from slaughtering these people for nothing more than piles of gold. The technological difference was only a matter of metals, gunpowder, and the ability to cross the ocean. Imagine how uncaring the human race's discoverers would be if the technological difference were the ability to cross the vast reaches of space, or dimensional travel, and a comparatively unlimited energy source for their weapons...

They would see nothing more than a planet, rich with resources, if they bothered to see us at all. Perhaps we would be lucky enough to have nothing they want, and they would pass us by, but I doubt it. They would come, take what they want, and if we offered some token resistance, we would be slaughtered. If we showed enough of a sign of intelligence to catch their attention, we would probably be enslaved, in the same way that ants or humans have enslaved one another, because we would have just enough intelligence to be taught how to serve.

Now, I do leave myself open to the story-book possibility that our discoverers might have the same warm hearts and minds of traders. Meaning that instead of seeing a planet full of resources to be taken by force, they would see an opulent orb to be taken advantage of, and scammed out of any and all interstellar commodities before we knew what they were worth.

For instance, water. We are surrounded by it, it falls from the sky, we have it frozen at both tips of the planet, and is freely wasted on water-park statues and swimming pools. This is not dissimilar to how ancient indigenous cultures treated gold, silver, and precious stones. The Europeans, whom had mastered the crafting of glass, and though it was still slightly a luxury item, could easily offload tons and tons of glass beads to Native Americans in exchange for land, gold, jewels, and just about anything else, because the of the fact that, while glass could be made just about anywhere, precious minerals remained hard to find. Water, on a calm planetary surface with enough temperature range to satisfy nearly any species, a near-lack of tectonic activity, and enough of an atmosphere to block out constant meteors and radiation, would seem a rather difficult thing to find. The only other surface we absolutely know it exists is Titan, a frozen wasteland of a planet. Perhaps this mercantile species decides to trade us something that the rest of the "civilized" galaxy takes for granted (such as clean energy) in exchange for the moon of Titan. They break it down, haul it off with friendly waves, bid their goodbyes, and leave with a galactic fortune on their hands, which could have been ours... and we may not find out until many decades, if not centuries, later when we begin to make contact with other races... perhaps by then we have bargained away our oceans, our lakes... our polar caps... By the time we discover the truth, we are a relatively impoverished species.

Perhaps our first contact is with the galactic equivolent of Nazis, and we decide to join with them in an effort to appear civilized, and join some interplanetary union, where we agree to share our resources for their protection and contact and trade with other stars in that union? And by the time we find out the rest of the galaxy hates them, we might be so entwined as to not care, and be convinced that our side is the right side.

So, my friend, those are our two branches for future contact with aliens, and either way, their only interest in Earth would be as a means to exploit resources or gain territory. With absolutely no frame of reference for the rest of the races in the galaxy, we could easily be conquered without a single shot being fired. And that is why I say "we would be toast."


I have found this topic fascinating, especially this post by thelibra. Thanks to all for some great replies.

I do find myself among the skeptics as far as UFO visitation. I am not saying it is out of the question, I just think it is extremely unlikely.

Where are their radio wave signatures? The radio wave spectrum is just too obvious a way for any intelligent civilization to communicate. I'm not saying there are not other ways for a civilization to communicate. There would just HAVE to be some communications, even low level communications, and it ain't out there, the SETI program would have discovered it.

(now I know the response from the true believers will be our UFO friends are so advanced, their technology is indistinquishable to us from magic. So be it, but you would have an impossible scenario to prove. In other words, as in Occam's razor, the most likely explanation is the one that is most probably true, which means ET ain't here folks)

We live in the backwaters of the galaxy, way way out on one of the galactic arms. Is there any chance of an alien civilization inhabiting our neigborhood? Sure, but they are most likely more than 200 light years distant from us, which is the amount of space that astronomy as had the oppourtunity to investigate.

On to thelibra's most interesting post:

I think you are underestimating the power of intelligence in ET. You think an intelligent species would not have developed a conscience, just have humanity has done over our history? I'm not saying we have evolved to perfection, of course we are imperfect and still very nasty in many, many ways.

But think about the history of the world, just 50 years ago, many things that are taken for granted today would have been unheard of.

100 years ago, 250 years ago, 500 years ago, 2000 years ago, if you think about it, humanity actually has made some undeniable progress in many moral categories. would anybody ever think of extinction of a non-intelligent species as any big deal 1000 years ago?

Of course not!

So why should we not expect a species that has had 20,000 years or 50.000 years or more progress in an intelligent society to recognize the worth of a new society, like our own?

On your point about exploiting the Earth for its water, I realize you are using water has an example of the resource that could be chosen by ET.
I just think that would be extremely unlikely.

For one thing, what makes you think that H2O is that scarce in the universe? Haven't you heard the news from Mars, that water was at one time abundant on Mars, and may still exist there still. Since it happened on Mars and Earth, that means that the scenario that happened in our early solar system was NOT unique, it is very likely to occur throughout the process of solar system creation throughout the universe.

Also, water has been proven to be present on the comets and it now apppears to be the case on Titan and perhaps some other bodies in the solar system.

I also happen to believe that a civilization that could produce interstellar transportation would find it a rather simple thing to manipulate elements on a molecular level to produce any thing they wanted. After all hydrogen and oxygen are quite common throughout the universe, it only takes two little hydrogen atoms and one little oxygen atom to tango!


Here is a very interesting article by Gentry Lee on the possibilities of intelligent life elsewhere:

.... Okay. If all those advanced ETs are out there, why havent they introduced themselves to us by now? This is a fun question. I have heard many wonderful explanations over the years. The most popular answer is what I call the "benign anthropologist" conjecture. The aliens have not contacted us, this scenario assumes, because they dont want to disturb the evolution of our pristine culture. We are being studied by alien anthropologists. Therefore, the extraterrestrials have made the earth off-limits to all members of the Federation Galactica. They understand, correctly, that any significant contact by them with our species would irrevocably alter our society. So we are purposely avoided, in the interests of galactic science.

Another common explanation for the lack of contact could be called the immaturity hypothesis. A solid scientific argument, based on the extraordinary amount of time that the galaxy has been in existence, concludes that virtually any extant alien culture that we might encounter would be much, much older than we are. Whether one defines an advanced intelligent civilization as one that understands the electromagnetic spectrum, as some people have done, or one that has the ability to construct a radio telescope, a definition suggested by astrobiologist Chris McKay, our human culture has only recently reached the threshold. We are infants in the hierarchy of advanced cultures.

Perhaps, this explanation suggests, only a small fraction of the emerging intelligences that reach our current stage endure long enough to become full-fledged members of the galactic federation. Perhaps the older, more mature aliens wait a reasonable amount of time before contacting such a fledgling species. They may have remote monitoring stations watching our television signals and other electronic output. These mature cultures may also have developed algorithms capable of assessing the probability that an emerging intelligence will survive for at least ten or twenty thousand years. What would they conclude from their observations that our species is rapidly destroying the very environment that made it possible to rise to intelligence in the first place, and is also still spending an enormous percentage of its gross world product on weapons of destruction?

A third plausible reason advanced for our not having been contacted by the advanced aliens could be called the technology gulf hypothesis. Since most of them have existed for eons, they have developed their technology to a level where it would be, to quote Arthur C. Clarke, "indistinguishable from magic" to us. We are of no significance to them. We have nothing to contribute to their culture. They are not going to spend any time or effort communicating with us. We should not be surprised. How much time and effort do we spend communicating with the ants?

Ah, what fun it is to imagine why not one of those purportedly thousands of advanced aliens has ever made itself known to us in an incontrovertible way. Could it be that maybe, just maybe, there are not that many of them after all? This is the thesis advanced by a remarkable, accessible, new book entitled Rare Earth, by Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee of the University of Washington. The subtitle summarizes their most important conclusion: "Why Complex Life Is Uncommon In the Universe.".....


www.space.com...




[edit on 12/12/2004 by NeonKnight]



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 01:09 PM
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It's true that the level of technology that the Military have developed is WAY ahead of what the general public realise it is but as a Researcher and a person who has had many UFO encounters it's obvious that a portion of what is seen and experienced has zero, nadda, zippo to do with any government. We may be 50 years ahead of what the public think we are when it comes to craft but we certainly aren't 1000's of years ahead
Your "explanation" needs to fit "all the facts" otherwise it's just as stupid as a useless as a naive debunker ... if the explanation doesn't fit the facts then it's wrong - plain and simple. The technology I've personally seen during some of my experiences plus the Beings I've seen certainly can't be explained away as purely our own "advanced" technology. I WISH that were true as it would be a nice tidy explanation - but it's far more complex than that.

When you're face to face with something that isn't human - belive me YOU KNOW IT


Karen


[edit on 12-12-2004 by intrepid]



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by NeonKnight
On your point about exploiting the Earth for its water, I realize you are using water has an example of the resource that could be chosen by ET.
I just think that would be extremely unlikely.


They would be passing water sources much greater than Earths to get here, as you mentioned most comets have water and Europa has more water than ALL the water on Earth.

Same with almost all resources, they are abundant in the Asteroids, Comets Moons and other planets. For a space faring race it would MUCH simpler to get them there.



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by kiwidesigner
It's true that the level of technology that the Military have developed is WAY ahead of what the general public realise it is but as a Researcher and a person who has had many UFO encounters it's obvious that a portion of what is seen and experienced has zero, nadda, zippo to do with any government. We may be 50 years ahead of what the public think we are when it comes to craft but we certainly aren't 1000's of years ahead
Your "explanation" needs to fit "all the facts" otherwise it's just as stupid as a useless as a naive debunker ... if the explanation doesn't fit the facts then it's wrong - plain and simple. The technology I've personally seen during some of my experiences plus the Beings I've seen certainly can't be explained away as purely our own "advanced" technology. I WISH that were true as it would be a nice tidy explanation - but it's far more complex than that.

When you're face to face with something that isn't human - belive me YOU KNOW IT


Karen


[edit on 12-12-2004 by intrepid]


What have you seen Kiwidesigner / Karen. You a more than welcome to U2U me if that's more your style when talking about such experiences.

Sincerly

Cade



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 10:57 PM
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Yes kiwidesigner, Id love to hear of your experiences with non humans please. Thats a pretty amazing statement to make if "non human" referes to EBE life. please u2 me if you dont want to post.



posted on Dec, 13 2004 @ 12:20 AM
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maybe these UFO are just some future humans coming back for some time traveling tourism.



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