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You have all been duped.

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posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by NeonKnight
Where are their radio wave signatures? The radio wave spectrum is just too obvious a way for any intelligent civilization to communicate.

I'm inclined to agree here. However, one possibility is that they are using a frequency we have yet to figure out how to monitor. Additionally, there is the possibility it has yet to reach us, and even if it did, the band may be so diffuse from travelling through gravity wells and expanding that we have yet to succesfully catch a signal, even if it did make it through. Distance is also a huge factor. For all we know, they started sending out signals thousands of years ago, but as long as their planet is a further amount of light-years away from Earth than the number of years ago they began to broadcast, then we'd not hear it yet.

Like you said, though, we're in the backwater part of the galaxy.


Originally posted by NeonKnight
There would just HAVE to be some communications, even low level communications, and it ain't out there, the SETI program would have discovered it.


Weeeellll... to be fair, SETI can only monitor so much at a time, and still lacks the processing power neccesary to filter all info. But we can all help out in this at setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu...

But yeah, one would think something would be found by now, assuming that they have developed radio-transmission technology longer ago than the number of light-years they are from the planet.


Originally posted by NeonKnight
...So why should we not expect a species that has had 20,000 years or 50.000 years or more progress in an intelligent society to recognize the worth of a new society, like our own?


Well, again, I must concede that you have a very good point, and hopefully are correct. I would certainly much prefer an alien species who valued life in all its forms, and could bring some sort of enlightenment to us...

...unfortunately, I think the best probability of this is perhaps 50/50... and that's being really optimistic. Here's my reasoning behind the grim projection:


  • Cultural Age - There is a possibility that the E.T.'s culture is less advanced than our own. It could very well be that their culture is based entirely around might-makes-right (Klingons from Star Trek), or extremist religious zealots (the Covenant from Halo), or perhaps culture itself is an alien concept to them (the bugs from Starship Troopers). I realize the examples are all Sci-Fi references, but I feel they do encompass a good frame of reference for what I'm trying to suggest. All of these could conceivably traverse space, while being happy to blow up whatever life they find.

  • Communication Barrier - There's also the possibility of such an extreme communication barrier that we can't convey the fact that we're intelligent to the E.T. (eg. they have telepathy, we don't, they're deaf and don't see in the same spectrum we do.) In such an instance, they might think us nothing more than highly advanced beavers or spiders. Sure, we can build structures, but we can't alter our scent-patterns, or produce intelligable chemical signals, or project our thoughts, or something to that effect, so we're just animals to them. Even assuming we could carry on something resembling a conversation, it's possible that the language barrier is so severe that either them or us or both come across as threatening and rude.

  • Unrecognizable as Intelligent Life - It's also possible that we simply aren't recognizable as intelligent life, any more than hornets would be considered intelligent life by humans. Perhaps our ability to make noise, have weapons, and build structures and ships is just not considered advanced enough to worry about. It could be because of technological differences, or it could be that the E.T. has such a bizzare view of what constitutes Intelligent Life, that there's no way we can fit it. (eg. Only beings who have telepathy AND have over 20 tentacles are intelligent) Or perhaps there is such a great size difference that one can't even notice the other.

  • Orders are Orders - If the E.T.s that discovered us were of a militaristic nature, there's a good possibility that even if they determined we were an intelligent species, that their orders might be to exterminate us anyway. Even assuming the discoverers had the freedom of thought to think this was wrong, orders are orders, and they would more likely than not, follow them.




Originally posted by NeonKnight
On your point about exploiting the Earth for its water, I realize you are using water has an example of the resource that could be chosen by ET.


Yeah, the water example was a poor one, but was all I could think of at the moment. Perhaps a better example might be Samarium or U235 or something...


Originally posted by NeonKnight
I also happen to believe that a civilization that could produce interstellar transportation would find it a rather simple thing to manipulate elements on a molecular level to produce any thing they wanted.


Perhaps...perhaps... but then again, perhaps not. Again, I'd say it was probably a 50/50 chance. Or perhaps they can manipulate molecules on an atomic level only to a certain degree, such as to create sustenance, but other more complex compounds may prove too difficult. Or perhaps they can easily replicate whatever they need, but the fuel compound required as the source of the energy to be converted is something rare throughout the universe and abundant on Earth. It's a gamble to assume it, regardless. We will probably have some sort of resource that the other spacefaring races desire that is in limited supply. Perhaps it's not even on a compound basis, but rather, ancient art... or something of the like... maybe they just happen to love ancient Chinese Dynasty-specific porcelain or Egyptian Sarcophagi, and can easily distinguish modern forgeries from the genuine article.

Regardless, you raise some very good points to consider in the direction of a positive encounter with E.Ts. Soooo... I'd be willing to go 50/50 as far as it being good or bad...




posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 09:15 AM
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:Quote:
No, not from imagination. Many mythological beasts can be traced back to incorrect identification of fossils by ancients. Just as dinosaur fossils are unearthed today by storms, floods, etc., they were in ancient times as well.
:Quote:

You are making my point. Just as we now know that dragons didnt exist,
couldnt the same be said for all the UFO data that has been aquired.

The pics and videos can be attributed to either fakes or an explianed flying object.
The witness accounts can be attributted to individuals being either crazy, lonely, spiteful, or out to make a buck.
Now this is as much speculation as the videos, and witness accounts.

lastly, picture this;

Could you imagine sitting and having a conversation, an intelligent conversation with a dog. A dog that could walk on his two legs, read the paper and then discuss the current events of the day. He owns a 2005, this is the new model, space craft that he flies in at his leisure. He can explain rocket science, and enjoys the fine arts. He is able to aviod any and everyone cept those he wants in the know. Now, imagine if that dog asked you not to tell anyone about him. How long could that dog hide or aviod being found out about by the masses.

I use a dog, cause a reptile, lizard, and bigfoot has alread been used.

could you imagine talking to a tall lizard. Have you been to the zoo. What would you do if all the animals started shouting at you.

Now imagine, sitting at a conference table with them, discussing a treaty, whereby they will remain secret and noone will be the wiser.
However, if something is leaked, people will be killed.

Hard for me to buy at this time.



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 10:54 AM
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How long could that dog hide or aviod being found out about by the masses.


Are you insinuating that the public at large is completely unaware of UFOs or the idea of alien visitation? You'd have to be for that argument to hold water. It HAS been found out by the masses. It may not be PROVEN to the masses...but the masses are well aware of the phenomenon....


Furthermore, you're insinuating that the government cannot keep such a thing secret. Do you know who killed Kennedy? (and no, I don't think anyone believes Oswald's magic bullet) Neither do we...so there you go.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by NeonKnight
Where are their radio wave signatures? The radio wave spectrum is just too obvious a way for any intelligent civilization to communicate.

I'm inclined to agree here. However, one possibility is that they are using a frequency we have yet to figure out how to monitor. Additionally, there is the possibility it has yet to reach us, and even if it did, the band may be so diffuse from travelling through gravity wells and expanding that we have yet to succesfully catch a signal, even if it did make it through. Distance is also a huge factor. For all we know, they started sending out signals thousands of years ago, but as long as their planet is a further amount of light-years away from Earth than the number of years ago they began to broadcast, then we'd not hear it yet.

Like you said, though, we're in the backwater part of the galaxy.


Originally posted by NeonKnight
There would just HAVE to be some communications, even low level communications, and it ain't out there, the SETI program would have discovered it.


Weeeellll... to be fair, SETI can only monitor so much at a time, and still lacks the processing power neccesary to filter all info. But we can all help out in this at setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu...

But yeah, one would think something would be found by now, assuming that they have developed radio-transmission technology longer ago than the number of light-years they are from the planet.


Originally posted by NeonKnight
...So why should we not expect a species that has had 20,000 years or 50.000 years or more progress in an intelligent society to recognize the worth of a new society, like our own?


Well, again, I must concede that you have a very good point, and hopefully are correct. I would certainly much prefer an alien species who valued life in all its forms, and could bring some sort of enlightenment to us...

...unfortunately, I think the best probability of this is perhaps 50/50... and that's being really optimistic. Here's my reasoning behind the grim projection:


  • Cultural Age - There is a possibility that the E.T.'s culture is less advanced than our own. It could very well be that their culture is based entirely around might-makes-right (Klingons from Star Trek), or extremist religious zealots (the Covenant from Halo), or perhaps culture itself is an alien concept to them (the bugs from Starship Troopers). I realize the examples are all Sci-Fi references, but I feel they do encompass a good frame of reference for what I'm trying to suggest. All of these could conceivably traverse space, while being happy to blow up whatever life they find.

  • Communication Barrier - There's also the possibility of such an extreme communication barrier that we can't convey the fact that we're intelligent to the E.T. (eg. they have telepathy, we don't, they're deaf and don't see in the same spectrum we do.) In such an instance, they might think us nothing more than highly advanced beavers or spiders. Sure, we can build structures, but we can't alter our scent-patterns, or produce intelligable chemical signals, or project our thoughts, or something to that effect, so we're just animals to them. Even assuming we could carry on something resembling a conversation, it's possible that the language barrier is so severe that either them or us or both come across as threatening and rude.

  • Unrecognizable as Intelligent Life - It's also possible that we simply aren't recognizable as intelligent life, any more than hornets would be considered intelligent life by humans. Perhaps our ability to make noise, have weapons, and build structures and ships is just not considered advanced enough to worry about. It could be because of technological differences, or it could be that the E.T. has such a bizzare view of what constitutes Intelligent Life, that there's no way we can fit it. (eg. Only beings who have telepathy AND have over 20 tentacles are intelligent) Or perhaps there is such a great size difference that one can't even notice the other.

  • Orders are Orders - If the E.T.s that discovered us were of a militaristic nature, there's a good possibility that even if they determined we were an intelligent species, that their orders might be to exterminate us anyway. Even assuming the discoverers had the freedom of thought to think this was wrong, orders are orders, and they would more likely than not, follow them.




Originally posted by NeonKnight
On your point about exploiting the Earth for its water, I realize you are using water has an example of the resource that could be chosen by ET.


Yeah, the water example was a poor one, but was all I could think of at the moment. Perhaps a better example might be Samarium or U235 or something...


Originally posted by NeonKnight
I also happen to believe that a civilization that could produce interstellar transportation would find it a rather simple thing to manipulate elements on a molecular level to produce any thing they wanted.


Perhaps...perhaps... but then again, perhaps not. Again, I'd say it was probably a 50/50 chance. Or perhaps they can manipulate molecules on an atomic level only to a certain degree, such as to create sustenance, but other more complex compounds may prove too difficult. Or perhaps they can easily replicate whatever they need, but the fuel compound required as the source of the energy to be converted is something rare throughout the universe and abundant on Earth. It's a gamble to assume it, regardless. We will probably have some sort of resource that the other spacefaring races desire that is in limited supply. Perhaps it's not even on a compound basis, but rather, ancient art... or something of the like... maybe they just happen to love ancient Chinese Dynasty-specific porcelain or Egyptian Sarcophagi, and can easily distinguish modern forgeries from the genuine article.

Regardless, you raise some very good points to consider in the direction of a positive encounter with E.Ts. Soooo... I'd be willing to go 50/50 as far as it being good or bad...


Outstanding reply libra! (or should I call you "the" for short?)


I'm impressed with your punctuation, spelling, excellent formatting skill and most especially, the intelligence that obviously resides behind your keyboard. Thanks for replying!


I don't have a lot of time for a detailed reply but I did want to get a quick one off...

First of all, don't get me wrong, I did not want to give the impression that I disagree with your point in your original post.

Oh yeah, ET is JUST as likely to be somewhat like you described, the evolution of predators to the top of virtually every food chain in nature shows us that is a one of the likely possible outcomes.

I'm pleased to see that you think the chances are only 50/50 that we should encounter Sigourney Weaver's ET. (As opposed to Spielberg's more cuddly version.)

I highly recommend picking up an outstanding DVD on our understanding of the universe: Hyperspace by the BBC hosted by Sam Neill.

It is not the last word on any of these matters for sure, and it is a bit provocative, but I picked it up at my local library and was impressed with the production values and the scientist's thoughts on SETI and the possibilties for ET in our universe. 4*'s from me.

Here is a review at amazon:



Amazon
If the scholarly tone and historical depth of Cosmos made that science miniseries akin to National Geographic magazine, then Hyperspace is like the National Enquirer. Each episode centers around a dramatic question (Will asteroids destroy the Earth? Could a black hole suck up our sun?) that is examined with slick computer-generated eye candy but fairly shallow content--for example, one episode argues that human beings need to colonize other planets because the sun will one day expand and burn the Earth to a cinder, but never mentions that the expansion of the sun won't happen for millions of years. Still, Hyperspace does present a variety of exciting ideas and may prompt viewers to learn more. The graphics are beautiful, host Sam Neill projects an engaging intelligence, and you have to love a television show that treats scientists like rock stars. Young science fiction fans will enjoy it enormously. --Bret Fetzer


www.amazon.com...=1103112127/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-6316923-5600648?v=glance&s=dvd#product-deta ils

Actually one point I disagree with the reviewer makes is the fact that the sun will burn up is only one of the reasons given for space colonization. The stronger point they make is the danger that asteroids and comets present to Earth that makes it necessary for humans to colonize space.

I also strongly disagree with the National Enquirer characterization, it IS not the Cosmos version, for sure, but I would compare it to an ESPN version, more fun, and great for young viewers of all ages.

Other comments:

Cultural Age

Not only do I agree with all you say here, chances are that any insterstellar civilizations that have arisen in our galaxy have already come and gone. Our star is a second generation star,( and WE are all starstuff too) and it is around 5 billion years old, while the universe is at least 15 billion years old. Plenty of time to destroy themselves or be destroyed by a variety of cosmological dangers.

Communication Barrier -- Unrecognizable as Intelligent Life

Ditto Ditto

I think when we actually DO make contact we are in for a BIG surprise! I think we may not be capable of imagining EVERY scenario that could result as intelligent life.

Look at what we are discovering here on Earth. Life centered around "smokers" at the bottom of the ocean, near the great undersea rifts, thriving on chemicals poisonous to most forms of life on earth. There are also reports of microbes that are living miles deep within the earth's crust.

Who knows what conditions out there could produce?

I am a huge science fiction reader, and I have read many of the best writers conceptions of what ET could be really like. I could type forever on this endlessly fascinating subject, but I gotta go to work...



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 07:25 AM
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Every heard of Dulce, New Mexico ?...Think about that and go read that article here: www.abovetopsecret.com... and after you read this , go this website and read part of this guys story www.aboveblack.com... . Put it together and basically its written truth, but I would have to guess that there is no picture or physical evidence.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by NeonKnight
Outstanding reply libra! (or should I call you "the" for short?)



Heheh... Thanks, man. Ummm... "Libra" works... I'd, not wish to detract from that musical visionary of the 80's... "The The"


Originally posted by NeonKnight
I'm impressed with your punctuation, spelling, excellent formatting skill and most especially, the intelligence that obviously resides behind your keyboard. Thanks for replying!



Aw, shucks. Yer gonna make me blush. Likewise, your posts are well thought out, intelligent, and grammatically pleasing.


Originally posted by NeonKnight
First of all, don't get me wrong, I did not want to give the impression that I disagree with your point in your original post.


But you did raise some very valid points that I did not consider. Whereas before I had strictly a doom and gloom perspective, I now have at least some hope for a positive encounter with E.T.s (assuming they ever visit in my lifetime)


Originally posted by NeonKnight
I highly recommend picking up an outstanding DVD on our understanding of the universe: Hyperspace by the BBC hosted by Sam Neill.



Originally posted by NeonKnight
I'll have to check it out. Sounds very intriguing.Actually one point I disagree with the reviewer makes is the fact that the sun will burn up is only one of the reasons given for space colonization. The stronger point they make is the danger that asteroids and comets present to Earth that makes it necessary for humans to colonize space.


Truly, the reasons are innumerable. Our star does not have an infinite age to it, and neither does our planet. All sorts of hazards could make Earth uninhabitable, some we may not have even considered yet, such as the case in a short story called "The Hydrogen Wall", where the writer puts forth a future scenario where the gasses thrown out by a neighboring supernova had protected Earth for billions of years from hydrogen bombardment, long enough for life to develop and advance to our point, but by the time we reached around the year 3500 or 4000 the gasses had finally died out enough that the hydrogen bombardment was killing off life in the colonies quiet fast. Then there's population to consider...

The advancements of any civilization, no matter how wealthy, are limited by its population. Once you have multiple planets to consider, population can boom. I cannot remember the estimate, but someone calculated out that, assuming colonization, interstellar travel, and FTL travel were possible, we could colonize every single known star system within 1000 years.


Originally posted by NeonKnight
Not only do I agree with all you say here, chances are that any insterstellar civilizations that have arisen in our galaxy have already come and gone.


Quite possibly... and I like your choice of words. The life itself might have lived on, but millions of years is a very long time to maintain the same government over the size of a galaxy.


Originally posted by NeonKnight
I think when we actually DO make contact we are in for a BIG surprise! I think we may not be capable of imagining EVERY scenario that could result as intelligent life....
...Who knows what conditions out there could produce?


I'd even be willing to bet that out there, somewhere, is probably a mineral-based life form, probably in a very cold place where even lead will act as a superconductor.

It was a pleasure, Neon (or do you prefer Knight?)... I look forward to discussing the subject further, but I feel perhaps we may have ventured off-topic for this thread. If you can recommend another, I'd be happy to visit it.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 09:19 AM
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I wouldn't agree with Dulce being a good reference. There are only a couple of people who came forward about it, and most are pretty out there (Cooper, Schneider, Burisch).

There is NO documentation supporting it, nor pics, etc.

Dan Sherman's story is intriguing, but again, no evidence, and he's the only source for it.

There are plenty of cases involving excellent evidence, to hold up as examples (Roswell, Rendlesham, Mexican Air Force footage, etc.).



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 01:34 PM
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This link here gives some very good background info on the "Roswell Incident". I think you all should read and decide for yourself what is truth and what is merely fabrication. www.af.mil...

Remember, it wasn't until 1978 when a video called UFO's Are Real cameout that the so called "eyewitness" reports of alien bodies at Roswell began to circulate. Why did it take so long? More than likely it was fabricated to fascilitate the video's point.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 01:48 PM
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I know about the Roswell incident, and it is very confusing, considering that it is being seriously covered by the government. Since then, all UFO incidents are being covered, and all are extracted from the public if possible.

There is a propaganda supporting scepticism, and nearly all people get the bait. It's sad, how all peole can be manipulated that easily.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 05:12 PM
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It was a pleasure, Neon (or do you prefer Knight?)... I look forward to discussing the subject further, but I feel perhaps we may have ventured off-topic for this thread. If you can recommend another, I'd be happy to visit it.


You may call me the KnightThatSaysNEon if you like.


You are right about being OT. I would recommend we start another thread, if one does not currently exist. Maybe we could title it something like:

What Are the Possiblities For Extraterrestial Intelligence and Will We Know It When We Find It? (Or Will ET Recognize US As Intelligent Life)



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 05:50 PM
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Okay so why, supposedly, IS the gov't perpetuating a myth with the result of major distrust and hatred against the gov't? Why piss off who you want to follow along like sheep? What is the logic of making sheep into wolves?
Hmmmmmmmm.....Frosty? Anybody??



[edit on 15-12-2004 by Der Kapitan]



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Frosty
Aliens and UFOs are nothing more than government fabricated lies to divert your attention away from its experimental military aircraft...and you all bought it and are soaking in it. Isn't it ironic that the government who created the UFO phenomena is being blamed for UFO coverups? You people are hillarious and do not realize to the extent that you have been manipulated. There are government officials who have been laughing at you for the past 50 years.



I carry a camera with me at all times. If I see any more ships like the ones I have seen in the past, and as up close as I have seen them, I will acquire pictures and laugh at the government for the next fifty.

I think what you say may be truthful to the point that the government may use ufo's to their benefit (like maybe making floating ships themselves, or hiding other governmental functions) but one cannot dismiss the fact of hundreds of people seeing the same thing at the same time. If ufo's don't exist, then the government is making floating ships. I and thousands of others have seen them. (not just at a distance, but up close and personal).

Always with respect,

No1nptkulr



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Frosty
Aliens and UFOs are nothing more than government fabricated lies to divert your attention away from its experimental military aircraft...and you all bought it and are soaking in it. Isn't it ironic that the government who created the UFO phenomena is being blamed for UFO coverups? You people are hillarious and do not realize to the extent that you have been manipulated. There are government officials who have been laughing at you for the past 50 years.



hahaha
you came to the wrong pplace to make that statement. Do you have any proof??????




posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Frosty
Aliens and UFOs are nothing more than government fabricated lies to divert your attention away from its experimental military aircraft...and you all bought it and are soaking in it. Isn't it ironic that the government who created the UFO phenomena is being blamed for UFO coverups? You people are hillarious and do not realize to the extent that you have been manipulated. There are government officials who have been laughing at you for the past 50 years.


I think, it's right but the opposite way. The Gov't is hiding infos of UFOs and alien contact, if a real UFO comes up, they cover it with a flight experiment issue. Aircraft experiments don't take place above cities and populated area, but most ppl still get the bait. The real weapon is still the scepticist propaganda, to explain out the real UFO phenomena .

And of course, the ignorant ppl believe just about anything, acting like a horde of pigs...!



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by merka
Good point, but how do you explain UFO reports predating modern flight?


This person has a good point, and i believe it. but then i have to contradict myself... maybe. Frosty said that the gov. has been laughing for the past 50 years. didnt achieve flight 50 years ago?
but then again, Merka could be talking about (which im believing more now) people sighting UFO's, since way the he(( before we had even thought of flight...



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 09:22 PM
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First off, whywould the government conceal such a great find as proof to alien existence? IF you think they actually have wreckage of this craft from Rowell, then why are other countries not begging to see and examine what remained?

Proof, the proof is the fact that the USAF would go to the extent it did to disprove UFO accounts. The only reason to this would be to create a sort of mass hysteria amongst the conspirators at the time to believe that since it was the work of the government it must be a lie. There was no reason to disprove something that did not exist in the first place.


XL5

posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 02:47 AM
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If the military has AG/ZPE craft systems, I'd bet people on other worlds have them too and would travel to far off planets, just to see if there is another race with new/different tech. We could be alien to another race if we have this tech and I bet we would get close enough to the other race to get a closer look and give em something to talk about.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 03:54 AM
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Because the US is exploring alien technology for military reasons, and that is definately top secret. Fron then on, any alien/UFO exploration is covered, and must be protected in order to keep the enemy under threat . It's that easy to understand.

It's another thing, that the government is wasting time, they won't be able to handle the alien technology, no matter how hard they try.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 06:58 AM
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This link here gives some very good background info on the "Roswell Incident". I think you all should read and decide for yourself what is truth and what is merely fabrication.


Now, re-read it, with the following in mind...

1. The records surrounding Roswell were officially listed as "missing", not "does not exist". This means that there are quite a few documents (going by number) that DID exist, that are not available for whatever reasons. Keep in mind, there is NO project that would still need to be classified over half a century later....

2. For this to be so, dozens of eyewitnesses would have to be approached, somehow convinced to lie and hold themselves up for ridicule, and to what end? Now who's grasping at straws?

3. Consider the source of the article...
It's a bit like believing Baghdad Bob during the Iraqi invasion, hehe....

4. Remember the OFFICIAL press release from the base, announcing the captured saucer.

5. While many kept silent from threats, sometimes even bribes (Mac's new truck for example), even high profile witnesses (like Marcel) came forward eventually.

6. The Ramey memo. Read it. Even if you don't agree with all of the words, such words as DISC, VICTIMS, etc. are DAMN clear...

7. This is my personal favorite. In that article, they state that of course the debris would be sent to Wright Field if it was unknown. Well, if it was a Mogul balloon (and hence, their stuff), then why the hell would it have been treated as an unknown?
The more they try to explain themselves, the further the hole they dig themselves into....

8. The revamping of the entire Defense Department (with NO prior indications of doing so), after the incident, and within a month (unprecedented, and never repeated either).

9. The laughable Air Force report, trying to hold that dummies from tests taking place 5 years after Roswell, were responsible for sightings of bodies.

Keeping all of the above in mind, does their version still make any sense? I didn't think so...



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 10:17 AM
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To add to Gazrok's points about Roswell, here's another interesting tidbit of info...

You cant ignore the FACT that the military were not the first to be aware of the wreckage on the pasture in '47. They had no idea what so ever until Mac Brazel notified Jesse Marcel about it. And taking into consideration the several accounts of eye witness reports of UFO activity in the area on July 2nd, and the wreckage wasnt found until July 5th poses strong evidence that the debris was sitting there for 3 whole days...quite a long time for the military to leave their crashed top secret balloon or aircraft sitting out there huh?

I'm convinced the Roswell incident is a government cover-up, of what exactly we cant yet be sure of. But judging by the initial announcement by Marcel of it being a "flying saucer" before the military could order him to change the report the next day, we have a good idea of what was originally perceived by the first witnesses of the wreckage. And still, i refuse to believe that Jesse Marcel, head of intelligence in Roswell, could mistake weather balloon wreckage for a flying saucer.

As for my theory on why no one really started talking about Roswell until the late 70's, i think it was due to Stanton Friedman's interview to Jesse Marcel that got people interested again. He was a key witness in the incident, and before that no one had the balls to step up for fear of ridicule. At that time people could really lose a lot, their jobs and respect for example, if they were to go public with information about something like this. You see, the Roswell incident took place right after the U.S. had won WWII. The American public had more trust for the government back then and when they announced it was nothing more than a weather balloon no one questioned it. If Roswell had happened anytime after the 60's i think things would have been much different. It took Marcel's interview to get people to start investigating again. Once Marcel was an old man with nothing to lose, and no more risk of being discredited and losing his job he felt it was the right time to re-state his original story that he was ordered to forget about - that it was indeed a flying saucer they found. Believe what you will, but the evidence is overwhelming.




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