US admits the war for �hearts and minds� in Iraq is now lost

(Originally posted on the Xbox365 forum by Blackcat 2.2)

US admits the war for �hearts and minds� in Iraq is now lost

Pentagon report reveals catalogue of failure

THE Pentagon has admitted that the war on terror and the invasion and occupation of Iraq have increased support for al-Qaeda, made ordinary Muslims hate the US and caused a global backlash against America because of the �self-serving hypocrisy� of George W Bush�s administration over the Middle East.

The mea culpa is contained in a shockingly frank �strategic communications� report, written this autumn by the Defence Science Board for Pentagon supremo Donald Rumsfeld.

On �the war of ideas or the struggle for hearts and minds�, the report says, �American efforts have not only failed, they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended�.

�American direct intervention in the Muslim world has paradoxically elevated the stature of, and support for, radical Islamists, while diminishing support for the United States to single digits in some Arab societies.�

Referring to the repeated mantra from the White House that those who oppose the US in the Middle East �hate our freedoms�, the report says: �Muslims do not �hate our freedoms�, but rather, they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favour of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the long-standing, even increasing support, for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan and the Gulf states.

�Thus when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypo crisy. Moreover, saying that �freedom is the future of the Middle East� is seen as patronising � in the eyes of Muslims, the American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering. US actions appear in contrast to be motivated by ulterior motives, and deliberately controlled in order to best serve American national interests at the expense of truly Muslim self-determination.�

The way America has handled itself since September 11 has played straight into the hands of al-Qaeda, the report adds. �American actions have elevated the authority of the jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims.� The result is that al-Qaeda has gone from being a marginal movement to having support across the entire Muslim world.

�Muslims see Americans as strangely narcissistic,� the report goes on, adding that to the Arab world the war is �no more than an extension of American domestic politics�. The US has zero credibility among Muslims which means that �whatever Americans do and say only serves � the enemy�.

The report says that the US is now engaged in a �global and generational struggle of ideas� which it is rapidly losing. In order to reverse the trend, the US must make �strategic communication� � which includes the dissemination of propaganda and the running of military psychological operations � an integral part of national security. The document says that �Presidential leadership� is needed in this �ideas war� and warns against �arrogance, opportunism and double standards�.

�We face a war on terrorism,� the report says, �intensified conflict with Islam, and insurgency in Iraq. Worldwide anger and discontent are directed at America�s tarnished credibility and ways the US pursues its goals. There is a consensus that America�s power to persuade is in a state of crisis.� More than 90% of the populations of some Muslims countries, such as Saudi Arabia, are opposed to US policies.

�The war has increased mistrust of America in Europe,� the report adds, �weakened support for the war on terrorism and undermined US credibility worldwide.� This, in turn, poses an increased threat to US national security.

America�s �image problem�, the report authors suggest, is �linked to perceptions of the US as arrogant, hypocritical and self-indulgent�. The White House �has paid little attention� to the problems.

The report calls for a huge boost in spending on propaganda efforts as war policies �will not succeed unless they are communicated to global domestic audiences in ways that are credible�.

American rhetoric which equates the war on terror as a cold-war-style battle against �totalitarian evil� is also slapped down by the report. Muslims see what is happening as a �history-shaking movement of Islamic restoration � a renewal of the Muslim world �(which) has taken form through many variant movements, both moderate and militant, with many millions of adherents � of which radical fighters are only a small part�.

Rather than supporting tyranny, most Muslim want to overthrow tyrannical regimes like Saudi Arabia. �The US finds itself in the strategically awkward � and potentially dangerous � situation of being the long-standing prop and alliance partner of these authoritarian regimes. Without the US, these regimes could not survive,� the report says.

�Thus the US has strongly taken sides in a desperate struggle � US policies and actions are increasingly seen by the overwhelming majority of Muslims as a threat to the survival of Islam itself � Americans have inserted themselves into this intra-Islamic struggle in ways that have made us an enemy to most Muslims.

�There is no yearning-to- be-liberated-by-the-US groundswell among Muslim societies � The perception of intimate US support of tyr-annies in the Muslim world is perhaps the critical vulnerability in American strategy. It strongly undercuts our message, while strongly promoting that of the enemy.�

The report says that, in terms of the �information war�, �at this moment it is the enemy that has the advantage�. The US propaganda drive has to focus on �separating the vast majority of non-violent Muslims from the radical- militant Islamist-Jihadist�.

According to the report, �the official take on the target audience [the Muslim world] has been gloriously simple� and divided the Middle East into �good� and �bad Muslims�.

�Americans are convinced that the US is a benevolent �superpower� that elevates values emphasising freedom � deep down we assume that everyone should naturally support our policies. Yet the world of Islam � by overwhelming majorities at this time � sees things differently. Muslims see American policies as inimical to their values, American rhetoric about freedom and democracy as hypocritical and American actions as deeply threatening.

�In two years the jihadi message � that strongly attacks American values � is being accepted by more moderate and non-violent Muslims. This in turn implies that negative opinion of the US has not yet bottomed out

Equally important, the report says, is �to renew European attitudes towards America� which have also been severely damaged since September 11, 2001. As �al-Qaeda constantly outflanks the US in the war of information�, American has to adopt more sophisticated propaganda techniques, such as targeting secularists in the Muslim world � including writers, artists and singers � and getting US private sector media and marketing professionals involved in disseminating messages to Muslims with a pro-US �brand�.

The Pentagon report also calls for the establishment of a national security adviser for strategic communications, and a massive boost in funding for the �information war� to boost US government TV and radio stations broadcasting in the Middle East.

The importance of the need to quickly establish a propaganda advantage is underscored by a document attached to the Pentagon report from Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy defence secretary, dated May.

It says: �Our military expeditions to Afghanistan and Iraq are unlikely to be the last such excursion in the global war on terrorism.�

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Not particually suprised by this though, America once again will have to learn the hard way that simple free people have and always will beat a strong invader that does not have the people wishes in mind, no matter how large the army is.

Now that's gratitude...maybe we should just put Sadam back in power in Iraq, then see how that makes the Iraqis feel when they're being killed by the thousands with nerve gas.

Well personnally i'd say the US have killed more Iraqi's in this invasion than saddam ever did over his decades of rule...

Im NOT saying that a dictator like saddam should take over again, but America's intensions were not much better.

Originally posted by Jaruseleh
Now that's gratitude...maybe we should just put Sadam back in power in Iraq, then see how that makes the Iraqis feel when they're being killed by the thousands with nerve gas.

you really think people are going to line the streat just to thank the US forces after prob losing alot of family memebers due to the war?

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by Jaruseleh
Now that's gratitude...maybe we should just put Sadam back in power in Iraq, then see how that makes the Iraqis feel when they're being killed by the thousands with nerve gas.

you really think people are going to line the streat just to thank the US forces after prob losing alot of family memebers due to the war?

news flash: THEY DID!!! So many people forget there are different tribes of Iraqis. Some love the fact that we're there, and some hate the fact. Most who hate us, are the iraqis loyal to sadam and his regime.

I don't know about you, but if I had a choice of dieing by a bullet to the head, or nerve gas, I'd take the bullet. The difference between the US and Sadam is we're there to help. Yes, people are dying. Yes, civilians are dying. No, we're not happy about this, but they are casualties of war. It happens in every war. So it's either A.) die with the hope that your country and some of your family who are still alive might see better days, or B.) Die a miserable death with no hope of anything for your family. Some things are worth dying for.

ok Jaruseleh
if your family were killed ( casualties of war so their deaths arnt that significant to others )
would you go out and imbrace the people that killed ur family?


also casulties of war ( thought the war was suppose to be over last year )

also people that were killed by nerve gas were the people that were told to rise up to saddam by uncle sam ( USA )


and some things arnt worth dying ( especially when the reason your country was attacked was for assets )

[edit on 6-12-2004 by bodrul]

severely damaged since September 11, 2001

Did i miss something?
www.bundeskanzler.de...


Iraq is too unstable for democracy. Those who were opressed under Saddam now all try to pull their own thing. Hearts and minds of those who want to live like us are already won. The problems you have are mainly with Terrorism Tourists and Islamic people who want Iran reloaded.

The real reason U.S is losing in Iraq is because they are trying to force Western values on an Eastern culture.

Just like oil and water, the two do not mix.

Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Well personnally i'd say the US have killed more Iraqi's in this invasion than saddam ever did over his decades of rule...

Im NOT saying that a dictator like saddam should take over again, but America's intensions were not much better.

I have seen estimates ranging from 600,000 to 1 million iraqi's killed by saddam during his rule. So you would be wrong.....

Originally posted by bodrul
ok Jaruseleh
if your family were killed ( casualties of war so their deaths arnt that significant to others )
would you go out and imbrace the people that killed ur family?


also casulties of war ( thought the war was suppose to be over last year )

also people that were killed by nerve gas were the people that were told to rise up to saddam by uncle sam ( USA )


and some things arnt worth dying ( especially when the reason your country was attacked was for assets )

[edit on 6-12-2004 by bodrul]

Would I embrace them? Absolutely. If I felt my country, and my people had no human rights due to a tyrant dictator, yes, I would. Of course I'd mourn the loss of friends and family, but if I knew it was going to be for the greater good, I would welcome it with open arms.

And those people weren't gassed because the US told them to rise against Sadam, they were gassed because they were of an opposing faction. Going to war, and beating that faction is acceptable. Gassing innocent men, women, and children just because you can is not acceptable.

Originally posted by Psychoses
The real reason U.S is losing in Iraq is because they are trying to force Western values on an Eastern culture.

Just like oil and water, the two do not mix.

You know, I am in favor of the war right now. I think what we're doing there is a noble effort (even if we're not doing it for the sake of nobility). But unfortunately, I think you've hit this right on the head. I'd love to see all this work out, and have peace in the region, but as much as I hate to say it, it won't last. Our goal now should be to get their government set up, quell the insurgency, train some police/military, and get the hell out of there.

First of all is three tribes in Iraq,

The Sunnis, were in power during Saddam.

The Kurds, were under attack by Saddam and relegated to the borders.

The Shiites, were the majority and oppress under Saddam, now they enjoy the most freedom kissing to the US.

Now Kurds does not give a darn as what is going in Iraq as long as they are left alone.

The Sunnis are fighting the coalition and the Shiite.

The Shiites are the ones happy with the liberation.

Now most of the insurgents are Sunni, also Shiite and outsiders.

By the way US are still combing the desert looking for the hundreds of thousands of death, just like the MWDs they are not show.

Yes I agree people's hart can not be won when they are loosing their own family members to the US coalition forces.

Western values are hated by Islamic believers they will never change their values for the US.

I have seen estimates ranging from 600,000 to 1 million iraqi's killed by saddam during his rule. So you would be wrong.....

You are correct that the number is anywhere up to one million iraqi's, however this INCLUDES those that have died as a result of the wars iraq has been involved in with other countries.

I was talking about murders directly as a result of Saddam's regime and not war.

Originally posted by Johnny Redburn

I have seen estimates ranging from 600,000 to 1 million iraqi's killed by saddam during his rule. So you would be wrong.....

You are correct that the number is anywhere up to one million iraqi's, however this INCLUDES those that have died as a result of the wars iraq has been involved in with other countries.

I was talking about murders directly as a result of Saddam's regime and not war.

I do think you are incorrect Sadam killed that many of his own peole w/o any war at all.

I have not done a detailed search, however I came up with a rough figure of 750,000 just doing a quick total from sites on the web. Keep in mind
there were over 1.3 million hits.

I do think that if I had time, I could prove it, but we are very close to the holidays and I have better things to do with my time then look up figures on how many that jerk killed. it does not matter if it was
100,000 or 1 million the figures are still off the scale unless of course you want to compare him to Hitler.

Discounting the wars, and the antiinsurgency campaigns (instigated or supported by the US), Saddam has killed 17.000 political prisoners in twenty years, according to Amnesty International, the leading independent watchdog for human rights abuses worldwide. Human Rights watch, a non-independent organization claim the figure is higher, roughly 280.000, but i think they count the antiinsurgency campaigns.



[edit on 6-12-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]

Originally posted by marg6043
Western values are hated by Islamic believers they will never change their values for the US.

This is true, they would rather live in the dark ages with practices such as this:

Honor Killings Claim Thousands of Women

An honor killing is the murder of a female, usually a daughter, who has in some way shamed her family. Pre-marital sex and adulterous behavior are shameful to many Muslims, this type of killing makes that shame go away.

www.atsnn.com...

And to think there are people who support Hussein and say he was not a horrible dictator.

:shk:

Originally posted by jsobecky
This is true, they would rather live in the dark ages with practices such as this:

And to think there are people who support Hussein and say he was not a horrible dictator.

:shk:

Humm, taking in consideration what you posted I guess you agree that forcing an ethnic group into the values and believe of another ethnic group is OK and fine with you.

And lets not forget killing a couple thousand of them also while shoving our western ideas.

I wonder if somebody come to your home and do that to you in the name of freedom and in the process kill you love ones, will you be happy?

Hum I wonder sometimes.

Originally posted by JaruselehI don't know about you, but if I had a choice of dieing by a bullet to the head, or nerve gas, I'd take the bullet. The difference between the US and Sadam is we're there to help. Yes, people are dying. Yes, civilians are dying. No, we're not happy about this, but they are casualties of war. It happens in every war. So it's either A.) die with the hope that your country and some of your family who are still alive might see better days, or B.) Die a miserable death with no hope of anything for your family. Some things are worth dying for.

You are correct, they are casualties of war, a one-sided war. None one of those killed or incarcerated from the Muslem side stated this war against you, you started it. It is an act of war because your side first called it such because they didn't dare call it an unwarranted invasion, how else to get those to march in lock-step as to call it a war? Actually, I don't even think war was declared. If you didn't go in there shooting up these people, then you wouldn't have to worry about using the ruse of defense now, would you?

Bin Laden declared war on the US. And like you, he is probably of the same belief that the civilians killed on 9/11 are just casualties, and wonders why their families just don�t so get over it. Makes perfect sense the way you see it, n�est-ce pas?

21 months later, and supporters of this heinous invasion andoccupation are still making apologist statements, obviously to soothe their own anxieties over same.

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by jsobecky
This is true, they would rather live in the dark ages with practices such as this:

And to think there are people who support Hussein and say he was not a horrible dictator.

:shk:

Humm, taking in consideration what you posted I guess you agree that forcing an ethnic group into the values and believe of another ethnic group is OK and fine with you.

You have already said that you think Hussein was not a horrible dictator. Now you are defending honor killing, the murder of women.

You don't deserve the freedoms of the American flag you live under.

Originally posted by jsobecky
You have already said that you think Hussein was not a horrible dictator. Now you are defending honor killing, the murder of women.

You don't deserve the freedoms of the American flag you live under.