The Tarot, believers and non-believers, what is your take?

originally posted by: nooneyouknow

originally posted by: crowdedskies
a reply to: athousandlives



I believe the Rider Waite deck is the best to use

I have been tempted by the Rider Waite,but thought the Thoth would fall by the wayside if i did buy it.
Maybe i could get the Waite deck and still find a place for the Thoth? i suppose its not uncommon for people to use more than one deck.
I love the idea of making my own deck but in all honesty that would be some way off.

I have both decks. Many packs of the Thoth deck and many of the Rider Waite.

Although , I prefer to use the Rider-Waite, the Thoth deck was important for me to own. This is because I wanted to compare Crowley's interpretation with that of Waite (both belonged to the same order but had different views). if Crowley had picked another artist (other than Lade Freida Harris), it could well have become my favorite deck.

You can start your own deck easily. Once started , it will be difficult to stop , especially as the floodgates open.

I recommend painting The Fool first. My representation of the Fool was a shephard walking along a ridge on the mountain side on the Andes; playing a pipe and wearing a colourful woolen garment. The painting show him walking away ,close to the edge of the ridge where there is a steep kilometre drop.

Even if you only do 10 paintings, they will be the cards that you understand the most and your understanding will amaze you.

originally posted by: athousandlives

I can see what you mean, I have also noticed that about the Thoth, that some cards are in a different style than the rest.

Glad you saw it. Pamela Colman Smith was truly a perfect choice of an artist. If you Google her , you will see how cute she looked - almost like a fairy. She definitely had psychic talents.

That is quite an undertaking! I believe some artists take decades trying to do it, years studying symbology, and then many more years to sketch and paint them all.

If it takes them decades, then they are doing it wrong. They are approaching it in a scientific way.

It works in the opposite way . First you draw/paint . As you do it, the symbology unfolds.

a reply to: crowdedskies

I can see where creating your own imagery would have more meaning in your readings. It is something I have contemplated. Though, the rider-Waite deck really has so many deep symbologies; biblical, astrology, numerology, etc. It is overwhelming to be able to get more.

I actually studied up more in this other fields to gain more detailed understanding of the intricacies of these cards in spreads. I still don't believe they foretell the future. It just allows me to perhaps point out options to another who is desperately seeking an answer. I always leave it up to the individual to recognize what is worthy of consideration. Their life choices, IS what will make a difference, not my reading.

I am not a professional, but even with skeptics...they say nothing at the time...thinking it is all hooey! They have come back and ask me to do another reading for fun sake and always seem more interested than the first reading! My own children know that I will only give them a full reading every 6 months. It can be addictive, and doing more often seems like one is giving up their control over circumstances. The cards are a resource tool of referencing their own subconscious independent self, not an individuals actual magic power to accurately foretell the future. No matter how accurate it seems to others, I always emphasize their independence of free will and choice of what they take and consider from any readings.

originally posted by: CynConcepts

I still don't believe they foretell the future. It just allows me to perhaps point out options to another who is desperately seeking an answer. I always leave it up to the individual to recognize what is worthy of consideration. Their life choices, is what will make a difference, not my reading.

You are making a very good point here. The future is not written and the reading can affect what actually happens.

However, at times the querent wants a YES or NO answer on a very important matter. What should you do ? I have had this situations happen to me with friends and acquaintances. I have to say that I have stuck my neck out in those situations and got it right. I only did it because the matter was urgent and crucial. Otherwise , I would only do as you say - give the options in such a way that they are more informed.

originally posted by: crowdedskies

originally posted by: CynConcepts

I still don't believe they foretell the future. It just allows me to perhaps point out options to another who is desperately seeking an answer. I always leave it up to the individual to recognize what is worthy of consideration. Their life choices, is what will make a difference, not my reading.

You are making a very good point here. The future is not written and the reading can affect what actually happens.

However, at times the querent wants a YES or NO answer on a very important matter. What should you do ? I have had this situations happen to me with friends and acquaintances. I have to say that I have stuck my neck out in those situations and got it right. I only did it because the matter was urgent and crucial. Otherwise , I would only do as you say - give the options in such a way that they are more informed.

As I stated, I make sure they understand this process is a resource not a magic 8 ball. It allows them to perhaps see their query from a different angle. They subconsciously and consciously can determine their own free will path. This allows them to grow more than giving up their individual free will to me the reader.

Edit add: I never give them a yes or no. One thing I have done is explained pendulums and subconscious muscle queuing. Most often, individuals know the answer and are seeking confirmation. The pendulum is not a sure yes / no based on truth. It is based only on their perceived subconscious truth, thus the muscles contract and create momentum in the pendulum. It does allow them an answer, that they may be consciously ignoring!


Edit add 2: my example: one of my daughters wanted to know whether she was going to give birth to a boy or girl? Her pendulum swinging did in accurately say it would be a girl. She stated consciously it didn't matter, but subconsciously she showed that she wanted a girl. There is no right or wrong...just knowledge to truly understand yourself more intimately. Everyone's subconscious really effects them more than they realize, especially in conscious decision making!

originally posted by: athousandlives
a reply to: RedCairo
I have recently got a Thoth as well, and still learning but it seems to me that it gives a more complex reading but strangely also easier to understand at times.
Interesting, so you use it as a way to better understand events that have already happened in your life?
That's a cool poster, can I ask how you use it?
Thanks for your input.

Hi. No, interesting idea but that's not it for me. I use them as archetypes.

This kind of meditation, closest to active-imagination, is difficult to explain to people without experience with it because our culture has misled us all into thinking imagination is a one way thing we create when really it is a universal "medium" of communication and it goes much more than one way (for example these meditations done properly are not intentional visualization, although some of that is inherently involved; they are as autonomously surprising and novel as anything in outer life).

Often archmeds don't seem to have anything to do with the perceived visual of something. For example my experience internally related to a card could, in theory, be with floating red cubes or a creature or an environment (or all of the above). It would however relate to the energy of the card, although sometimes it is not clear how (usually it is. Sometimes not). The more I have worked with a given energy for one reason or another, the easier and more pleasant the meditation will usually be. Sometimes I have dreams the night after doing the meditation that relate. Often with Thoth I get environments that end up with some huge sync to the symbolism on the card. This might be my brain doing it, or it might be that the energy just has a certain result with many humans and so this is part of what AC was translating when spec'ing the cards.

I know it doesn't convey much if someone doesn't do that kind of meditation so lemme see if I can link to a few - from short to long - as examples. The meditations can be complex but short and linear (such as Ten of Wands was for me), or very simple and humorously pleasant (like 8 of Disks was for me), or a parallel as I call it when I feel I'm in a valid 'other world' (like Knight of Cups was for me, although that meditation is also an example of when I put myself in the 'background' and let a larger-aspect of myself drive).

Sometimes in the process I have insight about the card's energy in our world (such as understanding in meditating on The Tower the diff between a tower and standing stones, and then over the next week gradually, how this relates to modern government and culture and so on). Sometimes what I expect of the card's energy is a bit wrong and it educates me (like Three of Disks did when I wrote a poem about my feelings but got it slightly wrong, and I 'recognize' this card's energy seen in other meditations by surprise too which is odd but interesting).

Sometimes the meditations take multiple efforts to get through, take long periods of abreacting-out of it (nervous system basically shunts one off the line and directly into sleep or something else no matter how alert you were half a second ago), and bring up really heavy-duty emotional stuff, recognized or not. The Tower and Knight of Wands did that for me -- I hope no Tarot meditation is anything like either of those again. I think, though, that we experience whatever we're ready for is all.

Like all archetype work, it can have profound reality consequences (for the better), but then when your psychology realizes the power of it, 'getting around to doing it' becomes more difficult than volunteering for dental work.

Best,
RC

a reply to: CynConcepts

Your edits 1 and 2 are very interesting. I am inclined to agree with you. There does come a time when the reader no longer needs the cards or pendulum.

I've had three tarot card readings, and all three have been alarmingly accurate. My friends have also had similarly accurate outcomes.

One friend got the same card four times. The odds of such a thing are ridiculous.

I'm inclined to believe in them.

I also believe in the Ouija board.

Interestingly, my father is the most skeptical person i know. He doesn't believe in ghosts or other supernatural/occult things. However he always warned me to stay away from the Ouija board, and gave a fairly frightening story about his one and only experience with it. I won't repeat it out of respect to him, but i've always respected his wish to avoid the Ouija board based on it.

The answers to the questions asked lie in the collective unconscious.

ALL divination methods use methods to "trick" you into accessing that level of mind, and pulling out the answers that exist there.

This is why certain methods work better for some people. The more you believe in the system, the easier it is to trick your mind into accessing the answers.

Inside of you lie all the answers, all the information that ever was/is/will be. It's just locked away to keep you from going insane.

i've used them at times when I was having relationship issues, think I used the cat people deck. I found it was pretty accurate for showing what is going on inside myself. not so great at predicting what would happen between me and the other person.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Those brave enough to venture forth and ask are certainly brave enough to determine for themselves.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
The answers to the questions asked lie in the collective unconscious.

ALL divination methods use methods to "trick" you into accessing that level of mind, and pulling out the answers that exist there.

With your theory concerning all answers being contained within your mind, how do you explain when your entire life gets pulled out of a Tarot deck by an anonymous person that is physically located on the other side of the planet in real time ?

The answers do exist. Except they are located in a spiritual world Knowledge Base. Entities like Djinn, Angels and Demons have access to this massive database of past, present and potential future events quite freely. The only problem is that they all have agendas and will happily lie to claim ownership of that humans' soul.

Dreams that come true the following day/week have also accessed this Knowledge Base.

originally posted by: Rapha

The answers do exist. Except they are located in a spiritual world Knowledge Base. Entities like Djinn, Angels and Demons have access to this massive database of past, present and potential future events quite freely. The only problem is that they all have agendas and will happily lie to claim ownership of that humans' soul.

Dreams that come true the following day/week have also accessed this Knowledge Base.

Not sure why you rate Djinns, Angels and demons so highly. They all have very basic, limited and specific tasks that are part of keeping together the so-called manifested universe. Yes, they can reveal some secrets but only because each one is tied to a specific area and can be expert at that but nothing else.

Playing with nature spirits and elementals , etc and seeking answers from them is only for advanced occult students.

As for the Tarot reader , Mistikmush is right. The collective unconscious plays a part. This is also accessible to the anonymous remote reader too. Contrary to your views, there is no involvement of spirit beings in Tarot reading. Tarot reading should not be confused with Ouija Boards .

originally posted by: Rapha

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
The answers to the questions asked lie in the collective unconscious.

ALL divination methods use methods to "trick" you into accessing that level of mind, and pulling out the answers that exist there.

With your theory concerning all answers being contained within your mind, how do you explain when your entire life gets pulled out of a Tarot deck by an anonymous person that is physically located on the other side of the planet in real time ?

The answers do exist. Except they are located in a spiritual world Knowledge Base. Entities like Djinn, Angels and Demons have access to this massive database of past, present and potential future events quite freely. The only problem is that they all have agendas and will happily lie to claim ownership of that humans' soul.

Dreams that come true the following day/week have also accessed this Knowledge Base.

Um, because all is one.

They have access to all the answers too. We are all one, just viewing ourselves from various perspectives.

It's like we are all security cameras on the same security network. We all think we have a unique view of the building -- but we're all watching the same building from different angles.

Everything is everything. I am you, you are me. I am this keyboard, the air I breathe and the sun, moon and stars. You are everything as well. You are shard of the infinite poking out into 3-dimensional space and occupying "time" in a monkey-body to experience the unique perspective of "you" through your eyes.

Imagine a vast and infinite sea.

Now, imagine talking a cup and dipping it into that sea. The liquid in that cup is now an "individual". When you die, the liquid from that cup gets poured back into that infinite sea.

The same is for all things, from the subatomic to the macroscopic. Everything comes from, and goes back to what I nickname the "IS-ness" ... because...well, it just "is" ...(when you get there you'll understand too).

This is why people having NDE's claim to feel comforted, almost like they feel some kind of familiar feeling. It's more than that -- its because you are going back to the nexus, the singularity where all points in space/time exist at once. There is no time or space. There is no physical dimension.

Everything that is, was, and could be on all levels from macro to micro is co-existing as pure potential in this one singular moment.

All the answers of all divination methods are contained in that place, and we carry some kind of energetic/vibration connection to this place throughout our lives.

This nexus and singularity where all that is, can and will be is one --s where everything (including you and I) come from and go back to.

I suppose you could call it a higher dimension. But in reality, there is only one "being" and it simply is expressing itself in an infinite number of ways -- you and I are both a sampling of those infinite ways it is expressing and experiencing itself.

So the answers are everywhere, and contained within everything.

originally posted by: crowdedskies
Not sure why you rate Djinns, Angels and demons so highly. They all have very basic, limited and specific tasks that are part of keeping together the so-called manifested universe. Yes, they can reveal some secrets but only because each one is tied to a specific area and can be expert at that but nothing else.

Didn't rate them. Only stated them because i know they have access to the information.

Djinn's are the Rephaim so in terms of angel hierarchy they are level 0 and Seraphs are top level according to the standard hierarchy like 'Powers', 'Divination', 'Cherubs', 'Messengers', 'Lyrim (Watchers)' etc.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
You are shard of the infinite poking out into 3-dimensional space and occupying "time" in a monkey-body to experience the unique perspective of "you" through your eyes.

So would that be similar to 7 billion beliefs at every second creating this fake world around us ?

Similar to 7 billion faces constructing every continent on this planet depending upon their country of birth.

originally posted by: Rapha

Didn't rate them. Only stated them because i know they have access to the information.

That's right,you did not rate them. However, by refering to their "Agenda" and "their lie to claim ownership of human soul", you were effectively putting them on a pedestal where they have power over humans.

Just because a few humans are stupid enough to mess with things that they do not understand does not mean that these spiritual beings are either at par or more powerful than himans.

I may have misunderstood you, but I just had to make the point.

originally posted by: crowdedskies
However, by refering to their "Agenda" and "their lie to claim ownership of human soul", you were effectively putting them on a pedestal where they have power over humans.

That statement is more of a provocation at them to get them to finally show their true colours to mankind.

In fact their silence (angels) is actually showing that they don't exist.

Jesus said 'Judge them by the fruits they bare'. The constant silence from the angel kingdom is showing that they are no different from their fallen brothers.

a reply to: Rapha

More like you have a private copy of the universe that everyone else helped make.

originally posted by: Rapha
In fact their silence (angels) is actually showing that they don't exist.
... The constant silence from the angel kingdom is showing that they are no different from their fallen brothers.

Maybe there is a certain faculty required to hear them and you just don't have it.

If any such things exist I doubt they care what some random human demands of them.