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Ukraine 'agrees truce' with Putin

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posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: MrSpad
This is no suprise. The entire reason Russia went from supporting the rebels with arms and volunteers and instead began to pour Russian troops over the border was to save the rebels. If the rebels had been eliiminated Russia would have lost a card to play in talks. Putin started talking about a cease fire then and of course Ukraine added a card be declaring it would apply to join NATO. So now talks can go along the lines of the rebels will go away if Ukraine does agrees to not join NATO etc.

Although it is kind of funny how nobody negotiates with the rebels themselves. Talks are always with Russia who then says yes we agree the rebels with enter a ceasefire but, we still have nothing to with any of this. It is almost like a wink wink nudge nudge. Nobody is really suppose to believe it but, they keep it up for appearances sake.


the west has promised a lot of money to kiev folks if they get rid of the eastern separatists. that means killing everyone that doesn't agree with them. that means killing civilians.

that's why they won't stop. their only chance to survive this winter is to end that domestic clusterf... as soon as possible. and mark my words, they will stop at nothing to finish off the rebels and everyone pro-russian. the rebels won't just go away. they're protecting civilians.

and i know that ukraine joining nato is a wet dream for some of you, together with ww3, but that's not going to happen.




posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: yuppa


Once again they did NOT TAKE THE GOVERNMENT BY FORCE.


Peaceful democratic maidan snipers?



They are "democratic" fascists. Obey or disappear.




posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: jedi_hamster




it's like saying that because hitler was a nazi, it doesn't mean there were nazi germany. except it does.


The problem is there are Nazi's in Germany now does that mean it's still Nazi Germany...No not at all.




this only proves that you cannot take any news coming from kiev folks seriously, they lie all the time. "rebels are loosing, they're backing off, ukrainian military has destroyed another 50 russian tanks while loosing a dog and a weather balloon itself."


Well it's funny but did the separatists not retreat from all their strongholds and fall back to their last safe area of Donetsk, because that alone shows they are loosing ground or are they just playing around and everything's a lie except for what Russian media tells the world?



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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If you guys read the article I smell something fishy in Ukraine. It is not a united country. Why is there a Prime minister of Ukraine and a President of Ukraine?

I mean Canada 's leader is a PM. But, American leader is President. This just makes no sense.

"Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko said they had agreed a "ceasefire process" but PM Arseny Yatsenyuk said no plan from Mr Putin should be trusted."



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs




I used to be a cadet at an army barracks in London that was the target of a terrorist attack, a childhood friend lost his hand, his eye and became deaf in one ear...
So by your statement he was a human shield of the Armed forces of Britain...


I see you don't understand the difference between already established military installations and a civilian apartment building. Now in your barracks did you have elderly and young children living there because where the separatists hold up they do.

Very big difference.

But here is a good article discussing just that.

www.themoscowtimes.com...

It is the same reason that groups like Hamas and others use residential areas to attack Israel as they think those areas won't be hit after the attack. Also known as human shields.



I disagree also because all nations have army situated in public areas...
Are they not all potentially using us as human shields?


And as I said earlier in this post...Most if not all military installations are marked as one and they aren't using civilian apartment buildings that aren't designated as a military installations and/or housing for the military.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: jedi_hamster




and mark my words, they will stop at nothing to finish off the rebels and everyone pro-russian. the rebels won't just go away. they're protecting civilians.


And that's why there is no point for NovoRossiya region to stay with Ukraine anymore.

Kremlin would be foolish to call a cease fire at this point.

Rebels are very angry as they know what deeds were committed against them and civilians under the guise of ATO.

Criminals from Right Sector were not put in rein but made the National Guards which further encouraged their EVILNESS.

Time to split for two regions and only then the peace will take shape.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: victor7




Russia should provide all overt and covert means to make NovoRossiya happen. No cease fire of convenience needed.



Wow you just don't know what you want do you?

On one hand you say Russia shouldn't get involved and then on the other you wish they would just all out invade Ukraine...warmonger much.

In case you forgot they have been providing arms, money and fighters to the separatists. But here let's refresh your memory shall we...


Alexander Zakharchenko, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said the rebels were in the process of receiving some 150 armoured vehicles, including 30 tanks, and 1,200 fighters who he said had spent four months training in Russia.

"They are joining at the most crucial moment," he said in a video recorded on Friday. He did not specify where the vehicles would come from.


uk.reuters.com...



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h




On one hand you say Russia shouldn't get involved and then on the other you wish they would just all out invade Ukraine...warmonger much.


Russia needs to avoid economic sanctions, hence should not invade openly. But it should provide all the support, weapons, training, intelligence, technology etc. to the rebels.

It's better if Ukraine splits right now so that lines and boundaries are well defined and peace takes place so that we do not have to fight WW3 later on, regarding this issue.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Will you ever going to give us a credible source for your proven "facts" because everything you showed us so far were from BBC, facebook, the national newspaper in Ukraine, some testimonies which cannot be verified...? Beyond that, do you have anything else?

Thanks in advance.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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Well, because I am a Putin's agent, my computer made a double post...damn you super-tech!
edit on 356k2014Wednesdaypm014 by Nikola014 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: jedi_hamster




the west has promised a lot of money to kiev folks if they get rid of the eastern separatists. that means killing everyone that doesn't agree with them. that means killing civilians.


And how come it is only the areas that the separatists are hold up that the gov't are maintaining an offensive in?

If they were just killing civilians they would still be shelling areas where the separatists aren't in, yet that isn't happening so I guess that can't be true now can it?

And please provide any evidence that the west has done what your saying, but I bet you won't be able to back that claim, but feel free to try.



that's why they won't stop. their only chance to survive this winter is to end that domestic clusterf... as soon as possible. and mark my words, they will stop at nothing to finish off the rebels and everyone pro-russian. the rebels won't just go away. they're protecting civilians.


And yet they still have pro Russian supporters in the areas where the separatists held power but lost it and yet we don't see this massive kill off do we...why if they are out to get rid of all Russian supporters?

Amazing how that claim is always made yet they never have proof to back it up...do you have that proof?



they're protecting civilians.


Sure just like they protected these civilians...

www.kyivpost.com...

www.thejournal.ie...

Or how they protected these civilians...



Now who's protecting the civilians from the separatists?



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: victor7





Russia needs to avoid economic sanctions, hence should not invade openly. But it should provide all the support, weapons, training, intelligence, technology etc. to the rebels.


That is what they have been doing where have you been?




It's better if Ukraine splits right now so that lines and boundaries are well defined and peace takes place so that we do not have to fight WW3 later on, regarding this issue.


Or Russia quits trying to retake the countries that they have nothing to do with and we won't have to worry about a possible WWIII now will we?



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Nikola014




Will you ever going to give us a credible source for your proven "facts" because everything you showed us so far were from BBC, facebook, the national newspaper in Ukraine, some testimonies which cannot be verified...? Beyond that, do you have anything else?


Facebook really?

Please provide me with any post where I used Facebook as a source, because I know you can't but feel free to provide that info if you can?

Your one to be talking about credible sources, because you wouldn't know one if it bit you in the bum. But it is fun watching you try to act you do.


So other than me do you actually have anything that relates to the topic at hand, because last time I checked I wasn't the topic of this thread.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: victor7




Rebels are very angry as they know what deeds were committed against them and civilians under the guise of ATO.


And now that the separatists aren't terrorizing the locals the true stories of the separatists and what they put them through is coming out.



Time to split for two regions and only then the peace will take shape.


Well according to the separatists they don't want to break away from Ukraine in fact they said they would preserve Ukraine as a whole.


At talks in Minsk, the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics have urged Kiev to acknowledge their “special status.” If their demands are met, they will not lay claim to other parts of Ukraine, the rebel republics said.

The initial statement said that if Kiev guarantees their “special status,” then the Donetsk and Lugansk republics will do everything possible “to preserve Ukraine’s common economic, cultural and political space and the space of the entire Ukraine-Russian civilization.”


rt.com...

So it seems the separatists have no problem staying with Ukraine as long as some conditions are met, so I guess that dream of their own country really isn't in the plans of the separatists.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: makemap




If you guys read the article I smell something fishy in Ukraine. It is not a united country. Why is there a Prime minister of Ukraine and a President of Ukraine?



Here is the reason why some countries have a president and a prime minister...


In a parliamentary government, the prime minister often is appointed by the parliament. The appointment will almost always be made by the party that has the most members of parliament. In this way, citizens who vote for parliamentary members indirectly influence the choice of prime minister, because a high number of parliamentary members from the same party will elect a prime minister from that party. The prime minister leads the parliament and therefore is the head of government but usually is not the head of state — a monarch, president or other official typically has that role. In some countries, such as the United Kingdom, the prime minister is appointed by a monarch, usually at the recommendation of the party that controls parliament.


and the president...


A president usually does not have to answer to the country's legislative body except in certain circumstances, such as when he or she is accused of an illegal act, such as abusing his or her power. He or she might make speeches to the legislature and might take questions, but he or she is not required by law to defend his or her decisions in front of the legislature. Also, the president is elected by the people separately from the legislature, so he or she might be from a political party that is different from the party that controls the legislature.


www.wisegeek.org...

Nothing fishy as it's just the style of government that some countries use.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: jedi_hamster




it's like saying that because hitler was a nazi, it doesn't mean there were nazi germany. except it does.


The problem is there are Nazi's in Germany now does that mean it's still Nazi Germany...No not at all.


nazis in germany today aren't in charge. hitler was in charge. even a chimp with half a brain would get that subtle difference.

kiev junta is in charge, and they are fascists, mostly. if you don't get it so far, i don't give a damn if you will.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: victor7




Russia should provide all overt and covert means to make NovoRossiya happen. No cease fire of convenience needed.



Wow you just don't know what you want do you?

On one hand you say Russia shouldn't get involved and then on the other you wish they would just all out invade Ukraine...warmonger much.

In case you forgot they have been providing arms, money and fighters to the separatists. But here let's refresh your memory shall we...


Alexander Zakharchenko, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said the rebels were in the process of receiving some 150 armoured vehicles, including 30 tanks, and 1,200 fighters who he said had spent four months training in Russia.

"They are joining at the most crucial moment," he said in a video recorded on Friday. He did not specify where the vehicles would come from.


uk.reuters.com...


now, 'training in russia' doesn't equal to being trained by russian active duty military. that's a subtle difference everyone pro-western is ignoring.

i can go to the usa, train lets say krav-maga for half a year, then go to some country, create a mess and say that i was trained in the usa. see where this is going?



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 03:49 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: jedi_hamster




the west has promised a lot of money to kiev folks if they get rid of the eastern separatists. that means killing everyone that doesn't agree with them. that means killing civilians.


And how come it is only the areas that the separatists are hold up that the gov't are maintaining an offensive in?

If they were just killing civilians they would still be shelling areas where the separatists aren't in, yet that isn't happening so I guess that can't be true now can it?

And please provide any evidence that the west has done what your saying, but I bet you won't be able to back that claim, but feel free to try.



that's why they won't stop. their only chance to survive this winter is to end that domestic clusterf... as soon as possible. and mark my words, they will stop at nothing to finish off the rebels and everyone pro-russian. the rebels won't just go away. they're protecting civilians.


And yet they still have pro Russian supporters in the areas where the separatists held power but lost it and yet we don't see this massive kill off do we...why if they are out to get rid of all Russian supporters?

Amazing how that claim is always made yet they never have proof to back it up...do you have that proof?



they're protecting civilians.


Sure just like they protected these civilians...

www.kyivpost.com...

www.thejournal.ie...

Or how they protected these civilians...



Now who's protecting the civilians from the separatists?


western officials are openly supporting the junta from kiev. officials and often someone from their families are advising them and doing business there, because that's what they're using that mess they've created for - to make money. it's also a public knowledge that they've spent a lot of cash to make it all happen. just use google, and when you're at it, check ron paul's speeches to get a bigger picture.

when it comes to the western ukrainian army killing civilians, just read posts here on ats, made by some people that were there. even in this thread if i remember correctly.

but of course you choose to ignore all that, while the only source of 'the only truth' for you is what kiev folks say.
how many times did they lie already? some international officials pointed out a few of their blatant lies so they've switched to spreading BS that cannot be confirmed nor denied without first hand evidence.

that doesn't make it stink less though.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 04:06 PM
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originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: MrSpad
This is no suprise. The entire reason Russia went from supporting the rebels with arms and volunteers and instead began to pour Russian troops over the border was to save the rebels. If the rebels had been eliiminated Russia would have lost a card to play in talks. Putin started talking about a cease fire then and of course Ukraine added a card be declaring it would apply to join NATO. So now talks can go along the lines of the rebels will go away if Ukraine does agrees to not join NATO etc.

Although it is kind of funny how nobody negotiates with the rebels themselves. Talks are always with Russia who then says yes we agree the rebels with enter a ceasefire but, we still have nothing to with any of this. It is almost like a wink wink nudge nudge. Nobody is really suppose to believe it but, they keep it up for appearances sake.


the west has promised a lot of money to kiev folks if they get rid of the eastern separatists. that means killing everyone that doesn't agree with them. that means killing civilians.

that's why they won't stop. their only chance to survive this winter is to end that domestic clusterf... as soon as possible. and mark my words, they will stop at nothing to finish off the rebels and everyone pro-russian. the rebels won't just go away. they're protecting civilians.

and i know that ukraine joining nato is a wet dream for some of you, together with ww3, but that's not going to happen.


This article explains that the Kiev junta has been lying all the time and that they were never on the verge of taking Donetsk or Lugansk, which everyone already knew who understands that everything Kiev says is a lie. You have to remember that Kiev is an ex Soviet government just like Russia. Their press people are reminiscent of Baghdad Bob.

www.washingtonsblog.com...

"According to the “press service of the President of Ukraine” on Aug. 18, Poroshenko called for a “regrouping of Ukrainian military units involved in the operation of power in the East of the country. … Today we need to do the rearrangement of forces that will defend our territory and continued army offensives,” said Poroshenko, adding, “we need to consider a new military operation in the new circumstances.”

If the “new circumstances” meant successful advances by Ukrainian government forces, why would it be necessary to “regroup,” to “rearrange” the forces? At about this time, sources on the ground began to report a string of successful attacks by the anti-coup federalists against government forces. According to these sources, it was the government army that was starting to take heavy casualties and lose ground, largely because of ineptitude and poor leadership.

Ten days later, as they became encircled and/or retreated, a ready-made excuse for this was to be found in the “Russian invasion.” That is precisely when the fuzzy photos were released by NATO and reporters like the New York Times’ Michael Gordon were set loose to spread the word that “the Russians are coming.” (Michael Gordon was one of the most egregious propagandists promoting the war on Iraq.)"



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: jedi_hamster




the west has promised a lot of money to kiev folks if they get rid of the eastern separatists. that means killing everyone that doesn't agree with them. that means killing civilians.


And how come it is only the areas that the separatists are hold up that the gov't are maintaining an offensive in?

If they were just killing civilians they would still be shelling areas where the separatists aren't in, yet that isn't happening so I guess that can't be true now can it?

And please provide any evidence that the west has done what your saying, but I bet you won't be able to back that claim, but feel free to try.



that's why they won't stop. their only chance to survive this winter is to end that domestic clusterf... as soon as possible. and mark my words, they will stop at nothing to finish off the rebels and everyone pro-russian. the rebels won't just go away. they're protecting civilians.


And yet they still have pro Russian supporters in the areas where the separatists held power but lost it and yet we don't see this massive kill off do we...why if they are out to get rid of all Russian supporters?

Amazing how that claim is always made yet they never have proof to back it up...do you have that proof?



they're protecting civilians.


Sure just like they protected these civilians...

www.kyivpost.com...

www.thejournal.ie...

Or how they protected these civilians...



Now who's protecting the civilians from the separatists?


western officials are openly supporting the junta from kiev. officials and often someone from their families are advising them and doing business there, because that's what they're using that mess they've created for - to make money. it's also a public knowledge that they've spent a lot of cash to make it all happen. just use google, and when you're at it, check ron paul's speeches to get a bigger picture.

when it comes to the western ukrainian army killing civilians, just read posts here on ats, made by some people that were there. even in this thread if i remember correctly.

but of course you choose to ignore all that, while the only source of 'the only truth' for you is what kiev folks say.
how many times did they lie already? some international officials pointed out a few of their blatant lies so they've switched to spreading BS that cannot be confirmed nor denied without first hand evidence.

that doesn't make it stink less though.


Everyone seems to lose sight of the fact that the junta in Kiev is illegal. Viktor Yanukovich is the legitimate democratically elected leader of Ukraine. If Russia decides to really invade Ukraine, they can take Kiev in two weeks. Then we will see Viktor Yanukovich back in Kiev, and the $5 billion that the US spent to overthrow him will be for nothing.




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