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Ukraine 'agrees truce' with Putin

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posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 05:39 AM
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a reply to: Nikola014




Do you like ever take a break from bashing on Putin and Russia? Or is that your daily job? Just curious...


Glad to see you decided to join the conversation.


And no my job has nothing to do with posting on ATS, but thanks for asking. Do you ever get tired of supporting Russia and their invasion of a sovereign nation?



And as for rebels not making any progress, that is not correct. As I've heard, they are currently on offensive, making the Ukrainian army to retreat. But yet again, unlike me you base your facts on what's BBC reporting, so it's no wonder our info's are different.


Interesting but in case you haven't been paying attention this isn't my thread. So you may want to address the OP about that.




Have you ever wondered why do people call Poroshenko a chocolate king? Yes, he owns a private company, so that means he will reach an agreement with Putin, because unlike you, they want this conflict to stop.


What does him having a business that deals with chocolate have to do with him wanting to end this conflict?

Are the Russians planning on hijacking his chocolate if he doesn't end things...I don't see the connection?



A friendly note : give it a rest, stop calling pro-Russians out, stop using sarcasm it doesn't suit you it just makes you look desperate...


So is this the reason you think that?



Sometimes the truth is just to much for some to handle, is that your problem?




posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 05:44 AM
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a reply to: Adaluncatif


When are the recordings between Kiev air traffic control and MH17 going to be released?


When the Dutch have completed their investigation, as per standard procedure.


When is the audio from the cockpit voice recorder going to be released?


When the Dutch have completed their investigation, as per standard procedure.


When is the information on the flight data recorder going to be released?


Certainly not before the Dutch have completed their investigation, possibly never. The raw data recorded by the black box would be meaningless to the untrained public.


Russia has provided evidence to suggest that Kiev was behind the downing of this flight.


Russia has released computer graphics which allegedly show aircraft being tracked by some sort of radar. No-one but a trained Russian radar operator can even hope to determine if it is genuine, a perfect example of why the raw data from the black box won't make a difference.


The US has provided zero evidence.


The United States does not need to provide evidence; they were in no way involved. They have not even made any official claims, just speculation that it may have been an honest mistake on the part of the rebels.


The people who are hiding truth and distorting facts are western intelligence and the media they control.


So... are there Russian troops in Ukraine or not? Are they under orders, lost or just "on vacation?" The "West" isn't perfect, but at least it can keep its story straight.


Genocide has been going on in Novorussia.


I thought the Russian troops were there to stop it! Why is it continuing... if it has been happening at all?


The Ukrainian army has been unable to defeat the freedom fighters, so they bomb civilians on purpose.


The pro-Russian Fascist thugs have been using civilians as a human shield.


When you systematically murder one specific ethnic group, that is the definition of genocide.


Like the way the Russians treated the Ukrainians during the holodomor, or they are currently treating the Crimean Tatars?


The people doing this are followers of organizations with their roots in NAZI collaboration. They even have swastikas and the Hitler salute.




"Governor " Pavel Gubarev




They believed genocide would cause the "separatists" to give up.


Usually genocide isn't used as a tactic, it is a strategy with the goal of complete elimination of the enemy populace. Genocide is not happening in Ukraine, except perhaps against the Tatars in Crimea.


You can't really call them separatists because that would mean they are separating from something. Ukraine no longer exists as a country.


Tell that to the people of Kyiv or Odessa.


It is a failed state.


The "People's Republic of Donetsk" would be a failed state... if it were ever really a state.


Ukraine ceased being a country when the United States spent $5 billion to fund NGOs in order to stage an armed coup against the legitimate democratically elected leader of Ukraine, Donetsk native, Viktor Yanukovich.


But Viktor Yanukovych was the leader while the US was spending that money. I guess Ukraine ceased to exist under Yanukovych's "leadership." Or do you want to revise your argument a little?


In a democracy you are not supposed to violently overthrow the elected leader simply because he comes from a region outside the capital where they speak a different language. Whoever gets the most votes wins.


Correct. The government currently in Kyiv was legally elected. That in Donetsk was not:




posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 05:45 AM
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I have viewed those links, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree - having spoken to someone on the ground there, it must be made clear that while I seem to dismiss claims of "separatists" etc., I merely argue against claims that the Kremlin could control any group of "separatists" purely because they are just that, they do not yield to any recognized authority.
There are indeed separatists in Ukraine - many different factions of them really, being opportunistic, pursuing their own agenda, committing horrible acts. But it can't be argued that the Ukrainian army are responsible for genocide. they are shelling entire towns and cities, sometimes to total annihilation, and the residents are therefore taking up arms in some cases and attempting to protect their homes.
If you watch the video, you will see an interview with two Ukrainian Soldiers who were stopped at a CIVILIAN checkpoint, of which there has been quite a few, where they seize weapons and place them in the care of their trusted local police, and were shown the impact of their acts. Their opinions were changed, but it was interesting to find out that the alternative to following the orders (which WERE to shell homes, towns, etc.) was to face 30 years in prison. So in that respect, you cannot blame the Ukrainian Army either. they are looking out for themselves. Somewhat selfishly, but true.
I will take civilian footage over a written statement or news article any day - especially from the Kiev Post - I do not claim to have experience of their work, but it would certainly be easy for Poroshenko to influence such an outlet.
All that being said, I thank you for your input there, and going to the effort you did, I guess we'll just continue to differ.
If you do find the time, the video is not just Nazi symbolism (which is also real btw - another source actually saw a branch of them seeking to purge Jews in one area) there is much, much more.
Again, thanks to OP.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 05:53 AM
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a reply to: stumason



It also highlights the fact Russia is involved in the War, despite claims to the contrary, otherwise how could they agree a ceasefire?




Press Secretary to the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov, said that Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Poroshenko not agreed on a cease-fire, RIA "Novosti". Peskov said that Russia is not a party to the conflict. "Putin and Poroshenko really discussed the steps that would be conducive to a cease-fire between the militias and the Ukrainian security forces. To negotiate a cease-fire, Russia can not physically, because it is not party to the conflict ", - said Peskov.
Russian news source


The spokesperson for Russia deliberately said that they have no control over this as they are not involved...



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 05:56 AM
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a reply to: stumason


An interesting, if unexpected, development. This is, however, the latest in a series of truces, so we'll wait and see if it holds.


Unexpected? The ukrainian forces just now retiring/losing the war against own people.


It also highlights the fact Russia is involved in the War, despite claims to the contrary, otherwise how could they agree a ceasefire?


Novorossiya do not agree. Ceasefire during attack?

The junta is waiting for more Blackwater troops and soviet military equipment from eastern nato-puppets.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 05:56 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
I take it you are a backer of the former president Yanukovich.
And I am glad you know more about me than I do...great gift you have there. And there is not a post made by me that says I don't want an end to this, so before you make statements such as this please get your facts straight before you go on distorting them.
As far as allies of Ukraine...not one has sent heavy military weapons for them to use which is something you can't say about the separatists as Russia has been supplying them from the beginning, so how are Ukraines allies failing?


No I was not supporter of Yanukovich but I am not supporter of this puppet lunatic government either.

I support politicians who would never be allowed to rise to the top.

As for Ukrainian allies. We Have No Allies.

Europe just wanted to use us to create economic problems for Russia, and they did.

No one cares about us. Wolves to the left of us, and tigers to the right of us.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 05:57 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h



Do you ever get tired of supporting Russia and their invasion of a sovereign nation?

That's not why do I participate in this thread. My main purpose is to give an alternative to other members because I've seen this show for so many times. Interestingly enough, the story never changes, but yet people do not want to recognize that.

One quick question: When the NSA got caught spying on Angela Merkel and Germany, it was an invasion of a sovereign nation as well, right?



Interesting but in case you haven't been paying attention this isn't my thread. So you may want to address the OP about that.

Wasn't you the one saying the pro-Russians are losing?



What does him having a business that deals with chocolate have to do with him wanting to end this conflict?

Well, he's a businessman. If you knew that the Russian economy mostly relies on national businessmen, you could very easily see the connection there. I am certain Putin and Poroshenko will find a common language.

Ukraine is the one who will suffer the most from this conflict. Russia simply can't accept Ukraine in NATO, that will never happen, the west should recognize this. Plus, the US can't allow for Russia to become a world power yet again.
edit on 359k2014Wednesdayam014 by Nikola014 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 06:18 AM
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a reply to: Nikola014

Isn't there a difference between a little bit of spying and trying to steal part of someone else's country?



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: TheRisenPeople




I merely argue against claims that the Kremlin could control any group of "separatists" purely because they are just that, they do not yield to any recognized authority.


Except the fact that the ones who were in charge until just recently were Russian citizens.

news.nationalpost.com...< br />
And one was a former member of Russian intelligence.


The Russian media has identified Igor Strelkov as an officer of the Russian military reserves who has expressed hardline views on eliminating perceived enemies of the Russian state and has fought on the federal side in Russian counter-separatist campaigns in Chechnya and on the pro-Moscow separatist side in the conflict in Moldova's breakaway region of Transnistria.[10] According to various sources, Strelkov took part in the Bosnian War as a volunteer on Serb side, and in Chechnya under contract.[note 1] In 1999, he published his memoirs of the fighting in Bosnia and Herzegovina.[11] In 2014, he was accused by Bosnian media and a retired Bosnian Army officer of having been involved in Višegrad massacres in which thousands of civilians were killed in 1992.[12]

The BBC reported Strelkov may have worked for Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB) in a counter-terrorism unit, citing Russian military experts.[13] According to Russian media, he has served as an FSB officer and his last role before retirement was reportedly with the FSB's Directorate for Combating International Terrorism.[14] Anonymous International disclosed what it said were Strelkov's personal emails on 12 May 2014, revealing that he had served in the FSB for 18 years from 1996 to March 2014, including in Chechnya from 1999 to 2005, The Moscow Times reported. The newspaper also said Girkin was born in Moscow and that it contacted him by email and phone but that he would not confirm the claims. A local pro-Russia militia leader in Ukraine, Vyacheslav Ponomarev, a self-described old friend of Girkin's, said the information about Girkin was true.[15] His pseudonym "Strelkov" ("Strelok"[2]) can be roughly translated as "Rifleman"[16] or "Shooter".[17] He has also been dubbed Igor Grozny ("Igor the Terrible").[18]


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

So in fact yes the Kremlin can control the separatists as they installed the leadership for them.



But it can't be argued that the Ukrainian army are responsible for genocide. they are shelling entire towns and cities, sometimes to total annihilation, and the residents are therefore taking up arms in some cases and attempting to protect their homes.


Now the question is are the Ukranians shelling areas where the separatists are not held up, because if they were then yes you would have an argument for genocide, but the fact they aren't shows they are trying to stop an armed separatist movement that took up arms against the government. Somewhat like the way the Russians deal with the armed chechans in Russia, but I don't see anyone say Russia is committing genocide when Russians die in those skirmishes.




I will take civilian footage over a written statement or news article any day - especially from the Kiev Post - I do not claim to have experience of their work, but it would certainly be easy for Poroshenko to influence such an outlet.
All that being said, I thank you for your input there, and going to the effort you did, I guess we'll just continue to differ.


Those reports were because of civilian statements, but I see which civilian statements you prefer to read just by the remark you made about Poroshenko and the Kiev-Post, but that is your right and are entitled to it.

But if your going to say your looking for the truth you need to provide both sides of the conflict and not just a one sided view that seems to be coming from a pro Russian perspective.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 06:37 AM
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a reply to: stumason

I was shocked reading this today..

but then I thought, Putin states he isn't behind the rebels and their actions. Russia isn't actually doing anything ''according to Putin''

so.. will the rebels obey too!



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 07:05 AM
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Just leaving this here...

Putin denies Ukraine ceasfire talk after Poroshenko issues statement on Russia agreement




RUSSIAN President Vladimir Putin hasn’t agreed to reported ceasefire with Ukraine “because Russia is not party to conflict”, his spokesman says.

A statement issued earlier from Putin’s Ukrainian counterpart Petro Poroshenko stated that Russia and Ukraine had agreed to a “permanent ceasefire” in fighting engulfing the east of the ex-Soviet state.

But a spokesman for Mr Putin has denied that an agreement has been reached.


goo.gl...
edit on 3-9-2014 by daaskapital because: link



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 07:56 AM
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a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite




Isn't there a difference between a little bit of spying and trying to steal part of someone else's country?


Depends on what country is doing it, and who is asking.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 08:16 AM
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What war? Kremlin denies it agreed 'ceasefire' with Ukraine because it claims Russia was never involved in a conflict


A 'permanent ceasefire' in the Ukraine conflict appeared to unravel today almost as soon as it had been announced.
The truce was announced by Kiev president Petro Poroshenko after an early morning phone call with Kremlin leader Vladimir Putin.
However, Moscow rapidly said Mr Putin had not agreed to a ceasefire and could not do so, claiming he was not even party to the conflict.
Meanwhile, reports made clear fighting continued on the ground in eastern Ukraine


Kremlin denies ceasefire with Ukraine



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: flammadraco




What war? Kremlin denies it agreed 'ceasefire' with Ukraine because it claims Russia was never involved in a conflict


Of course they weren't, and they really think people believe that too.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: stumason

To think that Putin has the ability to speak for PRO RUSSIAN TROOPS THAT HAVE ALIGNED THEMSELVES WITH PUTIN, does not mean that Putin is actively part of the war.

By calling themselves pro Russian, doesn't that automatically align them as wanting to be under Putin?

If someone labeled themselves PRO AMERICAN, I'm sure that Obama would have at least some pull in negotiations.

How much is Russia involved in the actual fighting, probably no more than the US and EU. And if he has given supplies to pro Russian troops, isn't this the same thing the US does everywhere?

Ukraine was perfectly happy being Ukraine before pro NATO forces took control. So what is wrong with Ukraine being it's own sovereign peaceful nation, without having to be part of something else.

Everyone is guilty in Ukraine, but I must side with Putin, because he is protecting his own backyard, so to speak.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 08:52 AM
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You anti-Russian crowd are boring...

Ironic you claim pro-Russians are the ones filtering these threads...
You should all take a look in the mirror!


As for the OP it's been denied so it's all moot...
No ceasefire and yet more western agendas being played out to tarnish, or involve Russia!


I'm not even pro-Russian, I see the bull# on both sides...

But honestly, the anti-Russia crowd are becoming worse than Zionists in the argumentative techniques...

Where is the proof of Human shields?
You know who you are who claimed this...
I don't expect a reply... One with proof anyways!
edit on 3-9-2014 by CharlieSpeirs because: Auto-Correct!!!



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs


Where is the proof of Human shields?
You know who you are who claimed this...
I don't expect a reply... One with proof anyways!


What do you call it when you intentionally place your military headquarters in a residential neighborhood?



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

That won't wash with me...

I used to be a cadet at an army barracks in London that was the target of a terrorist attack, a childhood friend lost his hand, his eye and became deaf in one ear...
So by your statement he was a human shield of the Armed forces of Britain...

I disagree also because all nations have army situated in public areas...
Are they not all potentially using us as human shields?

I'd say no, your argument says otherwise!



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 09:18 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
Also just because there are some who have that ideology it doesn't mean the majority of those fighting for Ukraine follow the same ideology.


it's like saying that because hitler was a nazi, it doesn't mean there were nazi germany. except it does.

there are black sheep on both sides of the fence, sure. when you fight with animals, at some point you may get a little bit like them. but one doesn't have to go any further than checking whom right sector and other fanatics from kiev glorify, and what they did in odessa, to have ones eyes opened.

as for the thread, it's a blatant propaganda, probably to calm already pissed off and scared ukrainian citizens. russia already denied it, because they've just discussed steps needed to be taken to reach a ceasefire - steps that kiev needs to take. russia cannot be a side in any ceasefire agreement because russia isn't a side in this war, and the fact that some of the rebels are russians, doesn't mean they're controlled by russian government. of course, kiev folks would like you to believe otherwise, so they've lied about reaching a ceasefire, just so they can blame russia when it suddenly doesn't happen - but they were forced to backtrack.

this only proves that you cannot take any news coming from kiev folks seriously, they lie all the time. "rebels are loosing, they're backing off, ukrainian military has destroyed another 50 russian tanks while loosing a dog and a weather balloon itself."

yeah, right.



slavyangrad.org...
edit on 3-9-2014 by jedi_hamster because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 09:18 AM
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This is a fake cease fire for Junta forces to get a breather and re-arm.

Russia should provide all overt and covert means to make NovoRossiya happen. No cease fire of convenience needed.



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