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The Zodiac Killer Was Not As Brilliant As You Think (And Why He Has Not Been Caught)

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posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Here is another little piece of the puzzle, though I am not saying by any means that this particular picture is related.....check out the name painted on the chopper.



So, there are only a handful of units from WW2, Korean War and Vietnam that used this name....


That's intriguing. What is your suspect's connection to that unit?


I found something else here relating to the Air Force and not the Navy. The Wing Walker shoes reported in the Page 11 of Police Report of Lake Berryessa, a certain Master Sargeant offered his shoes to the police as a reference about the shoe print casts. He said that those shoe prints were made for the Air Force. However, civilians working in the Air Force also wore these shoes.

Then on Page 13 there were 500-1,000 of the same shoes sold at surplus.

Even Brian Hartnell thought the Zodiac was not well-educated, he said on Police report page 24 that the man now had hair long enough to show through the eyeholes and that his belly was showing a little, because he was fairly chunky. He had a drawl that was not Southern, but just not enough for him to know where it was from.




posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

For those leaning toward Arthur Leigh Allen, here is a connection....Allen worked at Travis AFB as a civilian teacher. Travis AFB is the same that reported to the police that the shoes were sold in surplus.

Letter to Principal at Travis

And in another letter the Principal also requests a recommendation about Allen from his "recreation director", one Ted Kidder.

Another strange coincidence, Ted Kidder is also acknowledged in the forward of a book about the history of the Japanese on Hawaii. Ted Kidder had been stationed at Pearl Harbor. Strangely enough, The Mikado is a satire of the Japanese court.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
[

OK, now that might lead to him, however, it is still speculation. What doesn't make sense is this, the first two victims, David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen were on their first date, she attended Hogan High School. It doesn't make sense that he randomly just came upon a car (even though that happens) and killed two teenagers randomly.Faraday went to Vallejo High School.

Maybe he didn't have that persona at the time. However, the fact that he was prepared, shows that it wasn't just random. It does make sense that he knew one of them and knew they would be there. I don't see that Betty Lou Jensen would have known him at all, but it could be that he worked in her high school.

David Faraday Family
Betty Lou Jensen Family

Betty Lou Jensen's father was Lt. Colonel Verne Jensen as mentioned here in her mother's obituary

Now say, as he was a Lt. Colonel, and the obituary doesn't say for what branch, then suppose this, her father was the C.O. of the Zodiac or worked with him. That was not unusual back in those days to have family members visit offices. So it wouldn't be unreasonable.

Verne Jensen was a Lt. Colonel at one time, however, in 1971 he was a programmer for General Services Administration. You can see this on Ancestry.com.

That may be a huge stretch of the imagination, but at this point you can question everything. I am still going on the premise that the Zodiac was middle-aged, from the eyewitness descriptions. I think he stalked the young girl and was going to kill her for going out with another boy. It just seemed too coincidental, so there has to be a connection.

I am going through the newspaper clippings on Ancestry.com, one of the newspaper reports from the next day have the killing and the ad next to it, (this is Independent Star News, Pasadena) has the the suits of a deck of cards, with the diamond at the top. The caption is "Silly Dilly" and the bottom says "He's really playing for high stakes". According to this report, the person who found them was a woman named Mr. Manuel Borges who was driving home from the movies with her children, and that Faraday and Jensen were trailed there from the concert at the high school.

The article does say how they were found and in what position they were lying. So he could have gotten that information from the newspaper report, including how many shots were fired.

The next newspaper report has the same information, but the column next has an article about the new hearing set for Wells and Eldridge Cleaver of the Black Panthers. It seems this guy might have just bought all the newspapers in the area and read the account and then had the information, because it was not something only known to police, it was reported in two newspapers the next day.

David Faraday was a wrestler in high school and an Eagle Scout. His father worked for Empire P&G. It really is too convenient that these two would just be a random shooting.




We know from what captured serial killers have said that many hunt for victims the way a predator hunts for prey. In other words, they pick their victims out of the herd. I think the survivor of the Lake Berryesa killing said a car drove past them (they were parked) and then came back after awhile. He may have been looking for that particular person or he may have just been looking for a specific type to kill or just anyone if the situation presented itself.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 08:37 PM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: WarminIndy

For those leaning toward Arthur Leigh Allen, here is a connection....Allen worked at Travis AFB as a civilian teacher. Travis AFB is the same that reported to the police that the shoes were sold in surplus.

Letter to Principal at Travis

And in another letter the Principal also requests a recommendation about Allen from his "recreation director", one Ted Kidder.

Another strange coincidence, Ted Kidder is also acknowledged in the forward of a book about the history of the Japanese on Hawaii. Ted Kidder had been stationed at Pearl Harbor. Strangely enough, The Mikado is a satire of the Japanese court.




They officially ruled out Arthur Leigh Allen, If I remember correctly, because his DNA didn't match the DNA from the saliva on the glue on the envelope from one of the Zodiac letters. I don't think they should have eliminated him. He could have gotten someone else to lick the envelope. The envelope was badly wrinkled. Someone might discarded it and he picked it up. However, the non-DNA match probably would have prevented him from being convicted.

Your post about the Wingwalker shoes being readily available to a number of people was informative.
edit on 27-8-2014 by Tangerine because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 08:46 PM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Here is another little piece of the puzzle, though I am not saying by any means that this particular picture is related.....check out the name painted on the chopper.



So, there are only a handful of units from WW2, Korean War and Vietnam that used this name....


That's intriguing. What is your suspect's connection to that unit?


I found something else here relating to the Air Force and not the Navy. The Wing Walker shoes reported in the Page 11 of Police Report of Lake Berryessa, a certain Master Sargeant offered his shoes to the police as a reference about the shoe print casts. He said that those shoe prints were made for the Air Force. However, civilians working in the Air Force also wore these shoes.

Then on Page 13 there were 500-1,000 of the same shoes sold at surplus.

Even Brian Hartnell thought the Zodiac was not well-educated, he said on Police report page 24 that the man now had hair long enough to show through the eyeholes and that his belly was showing a little, because he was fairly chunky. He had a drawl that was not Southern, but just not enough for him to know where it was from.



It's interesting that Hartnell thought he was not well-educated. I wonder if that was because of the drawl (which would not indicate educational level one way or another) or something else. I wonder if he disguised his voice. The mention in the report that he started shaking when he tied up the women could suggest that he was afraid of or repulsed by women or that the anticipation of killing her was exciting him. I've never understood why he killed the cabbie. I think that was the only man he killed who was not with a woman at the time.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 09:20 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Here is another little piece of the puzzle, though I am not saying by any means that this particular picture is related.....check out the name painted on the chopper.



So, there are only a handful of units from WW2, Korean War and Vietnam that used this name....


That's intriguing. What is your suspect's connection to that unit?


I found something else here relating to the Air Force and not the Navy. The Wing Walker shoes reported in the Page 11 of Police Report of Lake Berryessa, a certain Master Sargeant offered his shoes to the police as a reference about the shoe print casts. He said that those shoe prints were made for the Air Force. However, civilians working in the Air Force also wore these shoes.

Then on Page 13 there were 500-1,000 of the same shoes sold at surplus.

Even Brian Hartnell thought the Zodiac was not well-educated, he said on Police report page 24 that the man now had hair long enough to show through the eyeholes and that his belly was showing a little, because he was fairly chunky. He had a drawl that was not Southern, but just not enough for him to know where it was from.



It's interesting that Hartnell thought he was not well-educated. I wonder if that was because of the drawl (which would not indicate educational level one way or another) or something else. I wonder if he disguised his voice. The mention in the report that he started shaking when he tied up the women could suggest that he was afraid of or repulsed by women or that the anticipation of killing her was exciting him. I've never understood why he killed the cabbie. I think that was the only man he killed who was not with a woman at the time.


I have been reading much more (remember, I am new to this and way behind everyone else), I saw the picture of Allen on his swim team in high school and it struck me the way he was positioned, the first thought was that he was gay. I don't know why I thought that, but it just seemed like it to me.

Then I read about another suspect, Rick Marshall. He seemed gay also, however, he was known to possess child pornography of little boys, which is interesting that Allen was arrested for molesting little girls. Rick was reported as being latent homosexual.

I think I proposed in my OP that it may have been two men. How about this, Allen and Marshall may have known each other and shared pornography, because they were both child molesters. One eyewitness said the man had sandy colored hair that was a crew cut, another said the man had dark hair that came over his eyes.

There has been no investigation of how these men might have known each other, but if they were involved in child pornography, they would not have been seen together much in the day time. Marshall showed the films in his theater that the Zodiac referenced, Allen had the pieces of evidence on him. I think these two men worked together as the Zodiac.

That's intriguing to me. And Marshall lived near Stine's death. What if they tried to pull off another Leopold and Loeb crime? Two gay men who might be lovers, preying on children and planning the crime of the century?

No one places the two men together, but just suppose...what if? Vallejo had a very open history of gay bars from the 1940s, so who is to say these two men didn't meet up at one?

Think about this also, even though the crimes were committed in 1968 and before, the Zodiac's first appearance in a letter was 1969...see that? (ok, didn't mean to evoke sexual innuendo, but that's the reference for it).

Again, this is all speculation, and nothing was off limits in San Francisco in the 1960s.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

I could actually inundate you with info backing up what I'm saying. Like I've said in two posts now....this is a hobby for me....i don't feel the need to justify to anyone here why I think what I think, or how I think it. You're welcome to agree or disagree.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 09:46 PM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Here is another little piece of the puzzle, though I am not saying by any means that this particular picture is related.....check out the name painted on the chopper.



So, there are only a handful of units from WW2, Korean War and Vietnam that used this name....


That's intriguing. What is your suspect's connection to that unit?


I found something else here relating to the Air Force and not the Navy. The Wing Walker shoes reported in the Page 11 of Police Report of Lake Berryessa, a certain Master Sargeant offered his shoes to the police as a reference about the shoe print casts. He said that those shoe prints were made for the Air Force. However, civilians working in the Air Force also wore these shoes.

Then on Page 13 there were 500-1,000 of the same shoes sold at surplus.

Even Brian Hartnell thought the Zodiac was not well-educated, he said on Police report page 24 that the man now had hair long enough to show through the eyeholes and that his belly was showing a little, because he was fairly chunky. He had a drawl that was not Southern, but just not enough for him to know where it was from.



It's interesting that Hartnell thought he was not well-educated. I wonder if that was because of the drawl (which would not indicate educational level one way or another) or something else. I wonder if he disguised his voice. The mention in the report that he started shaking when he tied up the women could suggest that he was afraid of or repulsed by women or that the anticipation of killing her was exciting him. I've never understood why he killed the cabbie. I think that was the only man he killed who was not with a woman at the time.


I have been reading much more (remember, I am new to this and way behind everyone else), I saw the picture of Allen on his swim team in high school and it struck me the way he was positioned, the first thought was that he was gay. I don't know why I thought that, but it just seemed like it to me.

Then I read about another suspect, Rick Marshall. He seemed gay also, however, he was known to possess child pornography of little boys, which is interesting that Allen was arrested for molesting little girls. Rick was reported as being latent homosexual.

I think I proposed in my OP that it may have been two men. How about this, Allen and Marshall may have known each other and shared pornography, because they were both child molesters. One eyewitness said the man had sandy colored hair that was a crew cut, another said the man had dark hair that came over his eyes.

There has been no investigation of how these men might have known each other, but if they were involved in child pornography, they would not have been seen together much in the day time. Marshall showed the films in his theater that the Zodiac referenced, Allen had the pieces of evidence on him. I think these two men worked together as the Zodiac.

That's intriguing to me. And Marshall lived near Stine's death. What if they tried to pull off another Leopold and Loeb crime? Two gay men who might be lovers, preying on children and planning the crime of the century?

No one places the two men together, but just suppose...what if? Vallejo had a very open history of gay bars from the 1940s, so who is to say these two men didn't meet up at one?

Think about this also, even though the crimes were committed in 1968 and before, the Zodiac's first appearance in a letter was 1969...see that? (ok, didn't mean to evoke sexual innuendo, but that's the reference for it).

Again, this is all speculation, and nothing was off limits in San Francisco in the 1960s.


Interesting theory. Have you visited zodiackiller.com website? It's very extensive and might have something in regard to this.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

Yes, that is where I have been getting the information at.

@Vasa Croe

It is ok to inundate me with the information, I am new to investigating it. The more information, the better. I always like to try to look at every angle with everything.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 10:24 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

The Zodiac killings happened pretty much straight after Edwards got out of Jail... It is said he would move into a town, make friends with the Police and then also frame people for the murderers he committed whilst never being suspected himself. If the Book is speaking the truth, this man was not just a criminal but a criminal genius. It is also said that he would take DNA from previous murders and plant them on the next murder/s and this is why they could never catch him or link anyone to the murder unless he was framing someone himself.

The author of the Book was on Hagmann a few weeks back and explains the story.. What must be remembered is the author had contact with Edwards before he died, he was working at the prison that Edwards was at..



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 05:29 AM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

Re: Your theory on 'co-conspirators' Did You check out the sugar factory across the bridge from Vallejo in Crockett? C&H Sugar..



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 06:40 AM
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originally posted by: JimNasium
a reply to: WarminIndy

Re: Your theory on 'co-conspirators' Did You check out the sugar factory across the bridge from Vallejo in Crockett? C&H Sugar..


No, I don't know that bit of information. Please send me link to that.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 06:42 AM
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originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: WarminIndy

The Zodiac killings happened pretty much straight after Edwards got out of Jail... It is said he would move into a town, make friends with the Police and then also frame people for the murderers he committed whilst never being suspected himself. If the Book is speaking the truth, this man was not just a criminal but a criminal genius. It is also said that he would take DNA from previous murders and plant them on the next murder/s and this is why they could never catch him or link anyone to the murder unless he was framing someone himself.

The author of the Book was on Hagmann a few weeks back and explains the story.. What must be remembered is the author had contact with Edwards before he died, he was working at the prison that Edwards was at..


Would he have been at the same prison that Allen claimed to his friends that he knew a person at?



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 07:10 AM
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Try searching "Dr. Guidini- Your prescription good. However, need additional- Zodius"

www.unazod.com



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 07:15 AM
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Continued.... I got cut off again..

I'll send an e-mail to My former partner when We worked "Special Investigations" but it is still 5:15 a.m.

That link is a Zodiac/Unabomber link and that "Dr. Guidini Your prescription good....." will show You some stuff from 1965-1968..

Type to You soon.

Edit: In the info I sent: If You look at the footnotes:
look at #23 meeting w/Mr. Roeberts in San Fran June 04-06, 1970.
#45
#49
edit on 28-8-2014 by JimNasium because: (no reason given)


Edit2: #201 'roEBErts' "EBE" starts the unsolved 18 from the first Zodiac code..
edit on 28-8-2014 by JimNasium because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 07:31 AM
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originally posted by: JimNasium
Try searching "Dr. Guidini- Your prescription good. However, need additional- Zodius"

www.unazod.com



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 07:34 AM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

www.dailymail.co.uk 14May12 Zodiac killer identified. (Suspect per Mr. Lafferty is a 93 y.o. Solano County man...) Your reply on My end is a ? in a blue box.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 07:36 AM
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originally posted by: JimNasium
a reply to: WarminIndy

www.dailymail.co.uk 14May12 Zodiac killer identified. (Suspect per Mr. Lafferty is a 93 y.o. Solano County man...) Your reply on My end is a ? in a blue box.


I don't know, there was a glitch in that post.

I had said I just looked at that site previous to answering the post.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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I think that Vasa has made this thread very informative and entertaining. I for one like his theory on this.

I think though we can all agree, a large part of why this killer was not caught, is due to a lack of police cooperation. Each Department wanted to the department that caught Zed, therefore little to no help was going to happen. I also doubt a man who could fool that many investigators was under educated.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: JimNasium
Continued.... I got cut off again..

I'll send an e-mail to My former partner when We worked "Special Investigations" but it is still 5:15 a.m.

That link is a Zodiac/Unabomber link and that "Dr. Guidini Your prescription good....." will show You some stuff from 1965-1968..

Type to You soon.

Edit: In the info I sent: If You look at the footnotes:
look at #23 meeting w/Mr. Roeberts in San Fran June 04-06, 1970.
#45
#49

Edit2: #201 'roEBErts' "EBE" starts the unsolved 18 from the first Zodiac code..


You can find almost anything in the ciphers. I don't think it points to anything. In fact, I think the ciphers are likely gibberish the Zodiac used to mess with the press/police. That's why they've never been solved, even by professional cryptographers.



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