Video of Michael Brown robbing store just before being shot to be released today.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You're right, I've found myself becoming very emotional about this whole situation. From the shooting to the way the police handled the protesters in Ferguson. The ballistic evidence is very important.

The police timing the release of the QT video with the officers name was well planned. The media has been focusing more on that video than the officer.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Understood and fair enough. Your position and very strong support of it indicates you've largely made up your mind.

I'm anything but decided....so we'll agree to disagree on this one. We may even come to agree...when I see things the cops I want prosecuted aren't the ones SHOWING it.

However..I want to note two things here. First..... That Chief named a cop earlier that matched the name of a prominent officer for a police officers organization in the area. That chief didn't say a WORD about the fact he was naming who many would know better as a black St Louis area officer than his own white officer. As a CHIEF...there is NO WAY anyone will convince me he didn't know that ..and he said ..not a word. Others had to...he didn't.

That is the same chief who came out today, to a CALM NEIGHBORHOOD..and just HAD to release (at this moment) what he has holding to convict the kid HIS COP SHOT in the court of public opinion. Now, reports have this neighborhood real pissed off again. Well.. Thanks to this CHIEF...he's made this town a warzone multiple nights in a row, and even after being removed from his authority? He is STILL finding ways to turn this situation worse.

Someone needs to stuff that Chief of Police into a jail cell for awhile and let him cool his trigger happy little heels while grown ups try and sort the violent nightmare HIS BAD JUDGEMENT helped make happen here.

Again..this evidence, apparently, came out today from the Chief I think MOST needs to be charged on what happened in this city. NOTHING about that evidence....and I mean absolutely NOTHING about it...is something I trust. When cops who aren't fighting for their professional lives aren't showing evidence to save their OWN butts...I'll be happy to take it more seriously.

I'm shocked by how everyone jumped hard to one assumption earlier this week..and now, like a bad amusement park ride, are ruuuuuning over to jump to the other side ...and the investigation is still JUST STARTING....

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Vasa Croe

If this was an isolated incident of excessive force by a police in Ferguson, I do not think the community would have reacted so violently. The timeline and events leading up to the riots go back decades, the Brown shooting was just a spark in a volatile environment.

I do not think the video is conclusive, especially when it come from the Ferguson PD. Let's say the FBI is able to use facial recognition software to match the faces, then we have some solid evidence. Right now the evidence is scanty at best. Mr. Brown is about the same height, weight and skin color.

I live in a small town of about 10,000. Within 2 miles of me, I can think of at least 10 acquaintances that are about the same height, weight, and skin color as me. The video alone does not prove Mr. Brown was the robber, and if he was it does not explain the shooting.

I could say the same of this being an isolated event of crime in the area on part of the community itself. It is a ghetto by most people's standards. Crimes occur there often....check out the city crime data....higher than the US average for such a tiny nice town....

source

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I can. Each small municipality that is considered part of Greater St. Louis has varying property values. The hud and section 8 housing is woven into certain neighborhoods that border neighborhoods that have no subsidized housing. You may see houses worth 300,000.00 sitting right next door to one that may be valued at 100,000.00 in many areas.

In Clayton Mo and University City Missouri you will see a much higher personal property tax, but those two communities also accommodate the Black community, especially University City where I once resided. There are no values put on one community over the other. Here we just know what neighborhoods are not safe. Ferguson is not one of those. I steer clear of E. St. Louis, but then that's in a whole other State.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: macman

They voted in the Police Chief? Really?

Some Chiefs are voted in. Most are appointed by the City Council, who are voted in.

The mayor and counsel will steer the chief as to how the PD as a whole will operate.

a reply to: stargatetravels

The only "real" witness to the crime was the victims partner in the robbery. Others came out of the woodwork and made the same witness, but were not actually "eye witnesses". Do you really believe the other kid who participated in the robbery and assault on the policeman?

a reply to: Witness2008

Lol... East St. Louis is Beirut on the Mississippi. I didn't need to be in St Louis for more than trucking through and Occupy to learn how important that river is for dividing East and West. (I imagine you might even appreciate passports with a checkpoint sometimes..) Kinda like Cahokia is known for giant mounds ...and locals know it for that too, but a whole different kind, eh?

Thanks for the info on Ferguson from living in the area. It helps for perspective!

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
You're right, I've found myself becoming very emotional about this whole situation. From the shooting to the way the police handled the protesters in Ferguson. The ballistic evidence is very important.

No worries, we are all human and at times it is natural reaction, you have nothing to be ashamed of.

The police timing the release of the QT video with the officers name was well planned. The media has been focusing more on that video than the officer.

At this point the video is more sensational so I am not too surprised they are focusing on that.

A black teenager robs a box of cigarettes and gets executed in the middle of the street

A 16 year old white teenager robs a store, drives while drunk and kills 4 people and severely injures 2 more and gets probation in a high end California resort.

But don't worry folks! White privilege absolutely does not exist! Blacks bring this stuff on themselves for being such violent tribal animals!

Ferguson is ranked as one of the highest crime rated cities in MO....that says a LOT.

Source

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Wow ..just heard the news the confrontation between Wilson and Brown had nothing to do with the video...unbelieveable. So why release the video if not to imply a connection or smear the victim? Crazy days.

The swell little press packet was put together in order to divert attention, once again, away from the reasons for all the chaos and ultmately the wrongful killing of yet another civilian. But alas, the brainiacs of the Ferguson police department ended up admitting the shooting was not connected to the robbery.

And here we all are talking about what a bad guy Michael Brown is, instead of talking about the incompetence of those that patrol our neighborhoods.

a reply to: zysin5
Thank you, it shows you are a strong person. I do believe Brown was a criminal, but when the cops are crooked too...

I want to re-iterate that I believe this department should be entirely taken apart top down and every single officer purged. The good cops let the bad cops make that station what it is, so they all should go, none of them are innocent there are guilty cops and complicit cops on that force, no "good" ones.
I am pro-cop to a fault, so I don't say this lightly.
I believe that the arrest of our elected officials for protesting this crooked force borders on treason and sedition.
Justice here will have to include jail time for SEVERAL of these officers.
The fish stinks at the head.

a reply to: muse7

Still playing the race card??? How many of those do you have in your deck? I assume you probably have some up your sleeve as well.


As for execution.....I guess you have learned nothing about emotional jumps to conclusions.

allegedly, went for his gun. a reply to: thesmokingman

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Ummm... Okay... I was open to taking that at face value, so I read it carefully. I looked down and saw it's position, then looked back at the defintion. Okay.. So far so.......wait a minute...

This is where living here matters. A LOT. Ranked worse than Ferguson are such hotbeds of crime as Aurora, Mo (blink, and you'll miss the town. I don't even want to ASK what crime wave rules a farming and turkey town like that one). Branson West??? There are just over 100 families in the whole city! (127 by the last census count) and it's a small community supporting the tourist mecca of Branson ...which appears as #4 for the highest crime city in the state of Missouri.

Wow.. Whoever hired the guys to make that list? Get a refund. Quickly. Sue them. whatever.... It's NO negative reflection on you Vasa, but that list is SO fundamentally inaccurate to what I KNOW about my own immediate living area? I can't NOT say something. That makes cities I know to be good, sound like Compton, California.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I think that the FBI has crime stats for cities. Perhaps that would provide us a better picture of crime per demographics, and the class of crime. Your link doesn't work....in backing your argument that is.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: LDragonFire

Yeah...(sigh) I caught that too. Sadly...

Ferguson City-Data

That site gives an interactive map for shading areas of the city based on things like values, race and other factors. I was curious what it showed for that whole neighborhood, given the impression out there ... You're right. It's a Middle-Upper Middle class black neighborhood to over 80%. To me? It's a point of trivia and demographic curiosity. To some? It does seem a defining factor to how the area is described.

I disagree about the neighborhood being largely a middle-upper middle class neighborhood. This is my specialty so I'll help ya out.

Lower middle class--$35,000-75,000
Middle middle class--75,000-100,000
Upper middle class---100,000-$500,000

That's the generally accepted range of what is middle class. Much of the data used for sites like the one you used is actually outdated. The one I initially looked at with the same data and the wiki page for the city both were using 2000 Census data as a source. I know you know that that's going to be bunk in this post Financial Crisis world. Here's the 2012 Census data for Ferguson, MO.

quickfacts.census.gov...

According to the Census Bureau, Ferguson's median income is $37,517. That still places Ferguson at the lower border of lower middle class. 22% of Ferguson's population is below the poverty level. That's nearly 1 out of every 4 residents living below the poverty threshold.

Ergo, Ferguson is poverty level to lower middle class with the majority being decided lower middle class. Paycheck to paycheck people.

Other sources:
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

**One more thing--economic desperation does induce criminal activity. The above should also be reflected upon as why some residents of Ferguson took to looting. If 22% of the population are barely scraping by and may not have enough to subsist on, then you bet that they're going to loot if the opportunity presents itself.

huff.to...

Looks like Ferguson will not be a happy place.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Actually, the 63136 zip code is also considered Jennings, MO.

Canfield Green Apartments sits right in the middle.

Here is one site displaying crime stats for that specific area:

Saint Louis, MO 63136 Crime Rate Indexes

I'll look for something more recent.

originally posted by: habfan1968

originally posted by: WhiteAlice

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: buster2010
He has a bottle in his hands not a box of cigars.

He has one hand with a bottle .. and with the other hand he is ASSAULTING the store clerk who is obviously much smaller than he is. When people steal, they usually don't walk out with the item in their hand. It's usually stuffed in pockets or in a shirt or in the pants ...

There is a lot of spin out there with this one. I can't wait for the real facts to come out ... which ever direction they go ...

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

www.mediaite.com...

Watching the lower video without commentary, if that is indeed Brown (uncertain as Cardinal hat isn't on the deceased and shoes seem different though it does look like Dorian Johnson in the convenience store with the individual there), then what he would have been charged with is not shoplifting but Robbery in the 2nd degree.

Robbery is the use of force and/or intimidation. Shoving the small guy and taking a few steps towards him would fall under use of force and intimidation. There is no weapon being used so it would not be robbery in the first degree; ergo, second degree.

Robbery in the 2nd degree would be a Class B Felony, whose sentencing would be 5-15 years in prison in the state of Missouri.

Not capital punishment. Even if it is Brown, he was still unarmed and was shot 6 times while running away based on distance between the police car and the deceased's body. Still would be a case of inappropriate use of deadly force by a police officer.

OK, let's call the store incident a class b felony. The witness said that the officer, through the window, managed to grab a 6 foot man by the neck? how could that happen unless MB was leaning down onto the car? which then implies a whole set of circumstances not being eluded to.

In all likelihood, he probably did bend over to talk to the police officer as it's awfully hard to carry a conversation when you're above the person and with a running motor in the mix, presuming the officer didn't turn off his vehicle. When you go to talk to somebody in a vehicle, don't you lean down? That doesn't allude to anything really other than a pretty normal human behavior.