Video of Michael Brown robbing store just before being shot to be released today.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

It's on a per capita basis so that's a lot of crime for a town of such a small population.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

Okay... The city near where I live...Springfield, Missouri ... has a median income of $33,379, according to your source.

I will tell you without a single question. It is NOT a lower class city. Its not lower middle class as a whole. Its a solid middle class city. On your chart? It's a bunch of lower class neighborhoods with a poverty problem.

This is why using only statistics is a very bad idea. Fortunately, these are stats for some places so close to me, and where I've been so many times in being through, the anomalies in the data stand out like bold print. Another state? I'd never have caught some of this. Why would I?

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

The one factor that is possibly not being taken into consideration; Is the cost of living verses median income. Missouri has fairly high median wages in comparison to a low cost of living in general (ie: rent, food, utilities etc) One of the best states in the nation where this is concerned.

That could be the factor that the statistics aren't giving enough consideration to.

ETA:

I did hear, even from across the state, that Springfield has a bit of a meth problem. Might be why the crime rate....just something you don't really see like you would murder or robbery so much.

That is pulled from the FBI crime Stat page.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

You hit it right on the head. Yes..... Ferguson has a low income level, very likely, for the same reason we do. We also have a min. wage in this state just over $7 an hour, and I can still buy a house in a large Missouri population center in the $50-$75,000 range with a quiet neighborhood, good schools and a fantastic cost of living.

On one chart? $33,000 and change is poverty. In the city where that is the average? People are quit content and happy. Stats without any context are worthless, IMO.

a reply to: abe froman

From the news that I have seen today, it seems so Abe, it seems so. And I was hoping with all my heart that was not him in that video. They are being honest, as even if it is him, its just.. well.. I am at a loss for words, and going to go sit in the corner now.. Oh man.. while this does not matter, they reported it, and said had nothing to do with it, and then this. What a mess. Best I stand back on this one.
In every fiber of my being, I wanted Mike Brown, to be the big gentle guy he was made out to be. He did not act so gentle in that video. Very calculated move made by police here. Watching that video, changes how many people are going to feel. To be honest. It shifted how I view this in a way where...... done here Thanks guys. To heated debate at this point for me.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

My cousins partner is a lieutenant in the St Louis PD and my aunt and uncle live in Springfield. My cousins partner has plenty of stories of horrific violence that occur there daily. She works one of the worst areas and has been in many hairy situations herself. I asked her what the crime rate in Ferguson is like and she said that accurately it is high for the population. Mostly breakins and robbery. This does not scream "nice community" to me.

Springfield on the other hand is very nice in my opinion...i have visited there many times in the past.

a reply to: Vasa Croe
We have an apartment complex in town that not even the utility companies will enter, without police escort. They have assigned no less then 4 cops, whenever they have to enter the complex. Shootings are on a daily basis inside the complex. I say it needs to be burned down to the ground...jmo....I should go compare the stats between the 2 complexes....thanks for all the great updates

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Thank You! The personal perspective makes all the difference and that helps as much to hear as the other note last page from someone else on it.

Honestly, you may recall my first posts this week when this had started, I had recalled that area as being rough from the truck. Especially the southern border of it. Then, watching TV and watching the live reporting to see the actual city they are in? Heck..most of what I saw in the truck was at dawn or middle of the night. Either everyone was asleep, rushing to work or out raising hell at the times I normally came into a place like St Louis. Not much 'normal life' unless you count the interstate at 70mph passing through in the day.

Anyway.. Just wanted to add the thanks for the added context you brought.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

People are quit content and happy. Stats without any context are worthless, IMO.

Thank you for that little piece of wisdom. I live on the south side where the income levels are roughly the same. My house is old and palatial with big beautiful parks that surround me. The neighborhood is lovely and easy to live in, and I'm going to make a wild guess that St. Louis' crime stats are a bit heavier than Ferguson's.

I don't get what property values or even crime rates have to do with out of control cops and their bosses.

I am immensely proud of my community and state for having come through the ugliness with such grace, and so much promise for positive change. Too bad folks can only see color and property values.

originally posted by: Laykilla

Furthermore, the altercation that resulted in his death was NOT a result of him being a suspect in a robbery. It was a separate standalone incident. As such, it should be judged as such.

True, but it does lend credit to the officer's claim that Brown attacked him. Brown knew he just robbed a store that day and was probably about to go to jail.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I always love a good discussion. I do draw conclusions rapidly on most subjects I comment on based on my knowledge and research of them. I am very strong willed in my conclusions and unless conclusively proven incorrect, I will argue my point.

I appreciate your contributions as well and have always enjoyed following your posts in every thread you "hop" up in
..

Nice disinformation but:

The police officer who shot unarmed teenager Michael Brown to death in Ferguson, Missouri, did not know that Brown was a suspect in the robbery of a convenience store minutes earlier, the police chief said Friday.

Police Chief Thomas Jackson said that Brown and a friend were stopped “because they were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic.”

Earlier in the day, police identified the officer who killed Brown as Darren Wilson, 28. They also released surveillance footage of the convenience store robbery, in which Brown was suspected of stealing a box of cigars and assaulting a clerk.

Suspicion is not an indictment or a conviction and it's not up to the officer to be judge jury and executioner.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Perception plays into all judgements. I know White folks and Black folks that live in and around Ferguson. I have never heard or detected any kind of fear or disappointment concerning Ferguson. I have driven through many of the neighborhoods over the years and never felt any difference between Ferguson and lily white north Austin, well maybe one difference, Austin is not as friendly as Ferguson.

a reply to: Witness2008

Well, in fairness...I originally mentioned the property values. I mentioned them in the context of the media having apparently played pretty loose about some of the reporting ... or did the best they knew how to while being blocked access from going to see themselves. Whichever version someone wants to use, I guess.

Seeing a Golf Club/Country Club right in a neighborhood I've been hearing for days was a bad one...kinda made me go HUH?!. So..blame me for starting the look at numbers. I'm guilty. (holds paws out for the cuffing). It kinda got outta hand on numbers, eh?

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I just don't want people to lose sight of the remarkable events that have transpired over the last few days.

I may come off as a little defensive but for good reason. St. Louis and all of it's smaller communities are wonderful. It is the best of all the cities I have ever lived in.

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys

And look at British society and your country!!!!!!!!! It's a joke! Your country is a former shell of its self! Britain has fallen so far from grace it's pathetic.

So the collapse of the British empire is down to the failure of our police to be gun happy and brutal? RRRRRRIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHTTTTT

Crime wise Britain not really better or worse than the USA , we have 4x less murders though.


And talking about falling from grace? Id say a militarised brutal police that shoot first and ask questions later is the USA falling from grace and no longer being the "land of the free"

But hey USA USA USA DERP DERP DERP DUUUUUUH

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
This Brown kid was nothing but a ghetto punk! LOOK AT THOSE PICTURES! He's a thug plain and simple!

So you can summary execute someone without trial based on how they look?

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
Did he deserve to get shot? Probably not but you know what the kid might very well have ended up dead in the future.

So its ok to shot someone if you think someone else will anyway. ok looool

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
Probably murdered by one of his own. This isn't a tragedy.

Any unnecessary killing a tragedy.

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
The cop probably lost it and he was wrong to unload into the kid.

And should be tried and punished accordantly.

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
But who knows how we would feel, training or not, if some black big thug just aassaulted you, tried to take your gun, and a shot rang out in a cop car!!!!!!!! Put yourself in his damn state of mind! Cops are human not robots! He lost it as would have a lot of people.

Still not a excuse.

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
So if this punk brown kid would have shot and killed the officer would the black people be rioting??????? HELL NO! I'm sick of all these poor ghetto blacks playing the victim. You don't see asians or hispanics playing the victim constantly or the race card.

I agree the rioting is wrong.

After seeing how Brown treated the little store owner, I really wish we could see how he treated/spoke to the officer...is there NO dash cam at all? That's surprising to me, as I've never seen a police car without a cam of some sort.....

originally posted by: darkwarrior

Another fool...lol

Another pro police state fan it seems from you.

originally posted by: darkwarrior

Yep police have to wait for criminals to draw their weapon and shoot before they draw their own weapon.

Why not? The police are there to arrest and bring said person to trial. Killing a suspect should be seen as a failure.

originally posted by: darkwarrior
What your saying is wishful thinking and totally disassociated with reality.

Not really, UK does not shoot first and ask question later and our Crime rates not much worse than the USA and is even far better than in some states.

The problem here is that the officer didn't know he was a suspect. And even if he did, there was no reason to shoot him.

Innocent till proven guilty.