A plea for the officers name. . . what do you think ATS?

a reply to: AnteBellum

I'm as anti cop as the next guy on ATS, well, militarized, aggressive, anti civilian cop that is. But for those of you unfamiliar with St. Louis MO ghettos. These places are drug and gang infested hell holes, they adhere to the no snitching movement and many neighborhoods are definitely no go areas for non residents. I'm from St. Louis by the way.

It's not that I agree with this shooting or the handling of it by the authorities. It's that I disagree with the characterization of Michael Brown as an innocent little baby executed while on his knees.

First off he was 300lbs, hardly a little boy. Secondly he was a grown man, 18 years old.

The point is, Brown is being Trayvonized. Trayvon beat the crud out of Zimmerman, and was shot for it; instant karma. We'll eventually find out the truth in the Brown shooting, but will any of these Brown supporters really be swayed if it turns out Brown was a dangerous aggressor? Probably not.

Brown was another innocent little black baby gunned down in cold blood, just like Trayvon Martin.

originally posted by: thesmokingman
a reply to: MALBOSIA

I dont think you understand..They are not required by law to release a name UNLESS criminal charges are filed.

But why has the family not pressed charges yet? If they move to press charges they would have to give them the name. But they're just demanding they give the name. Seems odd, if you don't have a name of the officer you at least should know which department to apply charges to over all, it'll roll down hill to the person they want.

The police are in a PR nightmare right now, if they release the name they put him at risk. But if they don't it looks like they are condoning his actions. Which put everyone with a badge in that area at risk.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Sometimes examples need to be made.

Do you know how dangerous those 6 words can be?

Remember there are 2 sides to a coin.
Be carful of what you ask for.

I have been made an example of before. It is nothing out of the ordinary. The gravy train has to stop sometime and someone has to be first.

“Michael Brown didn’t get due process,” they wrote. “The still unnamed police officer who shot the 18-year-old teenager dead in Ferguson will get plenty of it.”

Source

The officer is getting special protection, and getting his due process.

I feel the name should be released to the family. The family has a right to know who murdered their son.
The public on the other hand.. Well it is not so cut and dry.
Many points of view.
And I will reserve more until more information comes out.
Yet as it stands.
I did a search on Mike Brown. I did not find any criminal records. He did not seem to be like a violent kid. I found the opposite. A kid who was getting ready for school, and to start his life. But it was ended, by some "guy" We know nothing about.
We can not even verify that if this cop had issues in their past.. Or if he had been in trouble in the past.
Yet everyone can google and back ground search on Mike Brown.

Seems to be double standards here.

The whole protection of the cop family and line stuff.. Understandable to a point. Yet there are consequences for actions taken, and it seems that the whole thing is lop sided and more double standards.
If if was not a cop.. This story would not have even be heard of.
It would just be another senseless crime, that happens everyday.

But the thing is..This was a tipping point. Enough is enough.
Law enforcement is getting out of hand. And no one can verify the cop and his past actions.

It should be transparent.
If anything bad happens to the cop or the family.. Then arrests could be made, and would be on the same playing field as the rest of us.
Just goes to show.. If your a cop, You get special protection. No doubt.

No one else gets that special protection. Even in light of threats. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: AnteBellum



My attitude to this is, unless the dead man is a gun runner, a drug dealer, or any other organized crime figure, the name SHOULD be released. The name of a man who shoots an innocent man dead, is not something that ought to be protected. It is for every officer and law enforcement agent to ensure that their conduct does not inspire righteous fury amongst the population he or she serves, and when their actions DO inspire such fury, to deal with that consequence as the cost of the power vested in them by the state.

Innocent man? If you don't count the shoplifting, assaulting the police officer and going for his gun, then he was innocent. Don't expect not to be tazed or shot if you push an officer and reach for his piece, even if you're unarmed.

a reply to: ObjectZero

What are they going to press charges on? Until an investigation can be completed, there is little to nothing to go on as of now. The people might have gotten the answers they seek, if they did not immediately start acting like animals, and destroying their neighborhood and shooting at police helicopters. Let the police investigate this. If/when they feel there are substantial charges against the officer, THEN people can start calling for this mans head if they choose.

originally posted by: thesmokingman
a reply to: MALBOSIA

I dont think you understand..They are not required by law to release a name UNLESS criminal charges are filed.

I think you missed my point. I wasn't talking about the law I speaking more on the philosophy. Such a law would not be required in community-based policing. For example, you should live in the community you police. There would be no need for a court to release a name because everyone would already know.

One thing that really disgusts me, is why anybody needs to bring up what color the person was that got killed. It does not matter, and really just shows how as a society, things have always, and will always be based on color. I also love the way everybody is calling the victim a "black teenager". He was 18 years old, and where I come from you are considered a MAN at the age of 18. Talk about the media sensationalizing this. Fact is, an 18 year old man was shot and killed by the police. No need to mention color and call him a teenager.

...and the victims name has been released?

I didn't read thread in it's entirety yet, so hadn't seen if has been addressed;

aiding and abetting during the commission of a felony? How about after the commission of a felony?

Has it been determined a wrongful shooting death?

So much for integrity.

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: thesaneone

Because we chance it all the time when someone isn't a police officer. What makes him so special?

Really? Are you that ignorant that you can't see.
What about if they target the wrong person with the same name?

That's a risk that is taken for people who aren't police officers. By the way, I'm not ignorant at all about what you are getting at, I just don't care and want equal treatment across the board. If the system the way it is, is good enough for civilians then it is good enough for police officers.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: thesaneone

Because we chance it all the time when someone isn't a police officer. What makes him so special?

Really? Are you that ignorant that you can't see.
What about if they target the wrong person with the same name?

That's a risk that is taken for people who aren't police officers. By the way, I'm not ignorant at all about what you are getting at, I just don't care and want equal treatment across the board. If the system the way it is, is good enough for civilians then it is good enough for police officers.

Then you're no better then the cop you claim targeted an innocent man

Reckless disregard for innocence on both ends

Your thought process on this is indicative of the problem

You've lost your decency in favor of vengeance

originally posted by: loveguy
...and the victims name has been released?

I didn't read thread in it's entirety yet, so hadn't seen if has been addressed;

aiding and abetting during the commission of a felony? How about after the commission of a felony?

Has it been determined a wrongful shooting death?

So much for integrity.

We already know the victims name. It's the Officers name that we don't have.

I'm not sure if I follow you on the rest of the stuff you have there. I don't think there is any new info in there we don't already have.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

That's a risk that is taken for people who aren't police officers. By the way, I'm not ignorant

So you want to release the name of the officer even if a innocent person with the same name could be accidentally targeted? If that did happen you would be okay with it because it's a risk that needs to be taken?

You are right you are not ignorant, you are sick.

The name needs to be release. The cop who did this and their family are already gone and most likely under heavy guard. If no charges are filed they will probably file a PTSD disability claim and live nicely outside this area.

By not releasing the name, now ALL the cops and their families are at risk.

Plus the best way to encourage police brutality is to have a secret system. Of course cops are going to cover-up one of their own. It's a well documented fact. Cops who abuse usually have a long pattern of complaints that are kept secret.

If the people who are investigating know they will have to be accountable to the public for a reasonable decision, it will change the way the case is handled.

a reply to: thesaneone

I'm sorry I'm missing something. How is this situation different for non-police officers? Did the police fear all people named Casey Anthony being targeted when they released her name to the public? Did they take into consideration all people named George Zimmerman when they released his name to the public? You are trying to paint me as some callous monster, but you have never explained why this police officer is deserving of special treatment by the law. All I want is for the police officer to be treated EXACTLY the same as the law treats non-officers and that means releasing his name to the public. I don't care about all that extra baggage that you are trying to get at, because the police obviously don't care about it when they release names of civilians who are charged murders to the public.

I'm willing to bet that there is a dashboard camera in the car he was driving, and if there was the police are reviewing it right now, depending on what is on that dashboard camera as far as verbal comments are concerned the information will be released in due time. If there is information on that camera that will justify the actions of the officer as self defense, it will be released, if the actions do not suggest self defense, it probably won't be released. We all know that witnesses in high crime areas such as this do not actually provide truthful accounts of what happened,they provide false testimony to justify their looting, and rioting, and when dashboard camera evidence is revealed they will continue to say that's not true, I was there and saw him gun him down in cold blood. Let's wait and see what transpires before we say it was the cop out of control, or the so accused criminal that did in fact attack the officer.

Pictures of the officer were released last night on twitter and I believe they know his name.

Whether it's right or wrong is now irrelevant. The public knows.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Krazysh0t

That's a risk that is taken for people who aren't police officers. By the way, I'm not ignorant

So you want to release the name of the officer even if a innocent person with the same name could be accidentally targeted? If that did happen you would be okay with it because it's a risk that needs to be taken?

You are right you are not ignorant, you are sick.

Can you imagine that standard applied to every criminal case? The public could never know the names of someone convicted because they might be similar to another person's name? Out of the thousands of high profile cases, I have never heard of something like that happening but yes, this tiny, tiny risk is something that needs to be done. It's done everyday for non-cops. Secret government systems always lead to horrific evil.

originally posted by: DonVoigt
I'm willing to bet that there is a dashboard camera in the car he was driving, and if there was the police are reviewing it right now, depending on what is on that dashboard camera as far as verbal comments are concerned the information will be released in due time. If there is information on that camera that will justify the actions of the officer as self defense, it will be released, if the actions do not suggest self defense, it probably won't be released. We all know that witnesses in high crime areas such as this do not actually provide truthful accounts of what happened,they provide false testimony to justify their looting, and rioting, and when dashboard camera evidence is revealed they will continue to say that's not true, I was there and saw him gun him down in cold blood. Let's wait and see what transpires before we say it was the cop out of control, or the so accused criminal that did in fact attack the officer.

Bullsh*t....Don't even start in with that kind of Sh*t. I'm sick of hearing people say stuff like that. You know the same can be said about Cops always lying for each other and keeping the Blue Line secure.

The cops always lie for each other to cover their own asses!! How about we Dehumanize them some more huh??? Then we can all fell good about ourselves in our nice little circle jerk of propaganda.

Seriously. The people that live in that area are just like you and me and everyone else. Some good some bad. STOP CLAIMING AUTHORITY OVER PEOPLE.

I don't hear them telling me all about who you are as a person so stop all your talk about them. NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THEM.

None of that matter to anyone but you and your narrow view of the world. So keep it to yourself.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

but you have never explained why this police officer is deserving of special treatment by the law.

I did and not once did I say I was defending this officer. I want innocent people to not be targeted by thugs looking for vengeance.