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A plea for the officers name. . . what do you think ATS?

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posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: Daughter2

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Krazysh0t




That's a risk that is taken for people who aren't police officers. By the way, I'm not ignorant


So you want to release the name of the officer even if a innocent person with the same name could be accidentally targeted? If that did happen you would be okay with it because it's a risk that needs to be taken?

You are right you are not ignorant, you are sick.


Can you imagine that standard applied to every criminal case? The public could never know the names of someone convicted because they might be similar to another person's name? Out of the thousands of high profile cases, I have never heard of something like that happening but yes, this tiny, tiny risk is something that needs to be done. It's done everyday for non-cops. Secret government systems always lead to horrific evil.


Normal cases don't erupt into riots and violence ......

And as we see day in and day out when an officer is charged usually his name is released

It's obvious to me the reason they are withholding is for the safety of his family

It's clear from these irrational displays of violence and destruction that the folks involved can't be counted on not to do something stupid...

The man should still have his day in court




posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Krazysh0t




but you have never explained why this police officer is deserving of special treatment by the law.


I did and not once did I say I was defending this officer. I want innocent people to not be targeted by thugs looking for vengeance.


And I said that that is a risk that is taken with civilians when their names are released and you never explained why this situation is any different.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:25 PM
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Just after 1:30am this morning and possibly in response to flying rumors of a second police involved shooting at the time, people under the banner of Anonymous released the full name, badge number and date of hire of every officer in the Ferguson Police Department. They even sorted it to a high level of detail. How thoughtful....(groan of despair)

Shortly after Midnight or so and prior to that, tweets had begun to appear and vanish as fast as they came up which indicated the police were coordinating an operation to pick up and relocate officers and their families from inside the city. (Some may recall I mentioned something BIG happening..and protesters needed to take an hour off..that was it) I can make a reasonable guess that was in response to what they feared was about to come by that release, and the stated reason was in reaction to credible threats.

That released every name, not just one. Anyone with some deductive reasoning could figure out which one "The one" was, if they didn't cheat and just look at who Anon openly named. Neither of which is really fit to be posting, either way, IMO.

Did anything change though? Is there more justice this morning for that being in the public domain? Is anyone feeling fulfilled or satisfied? I can be certain families of civil servants were put in mortal danger by an act of social protest and hacktivism. That I can be sure of...but what else changed by all that data changing from confidential ... to public? Anything, in any REAL way? No?

I submit, making the name of someone like this public beyond those directly involved in the legal and investigative process is about public voyeurism, not a need to know for any tangible gain or requirement of any sort. Certainly not in the emotional short term following something like this.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Krazysh0t




but you have never explained why this police officer is deserving of special treatment by the law.


I did and not once did I say I was defending this officer. I want innocent people to not be targeted by thugs looking for vengeance.


And I said that that is a risk that is taken with civilians when their names are released and you never explained why this situation is any different.




I thought you where not ignorant?

You really don't know why this situation is different?



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

What's the matter you don't like facing truth, I live in crook county just outside of Chicago and live in the middle of and am surrounded by crime ridden neighborhoods, I think I have a very appropriate perspective on what it's like to live in an area where I'm surrounded by criminals of every kind, that goes for street criminals, police criminals, political criminals, you type in capital letters that they don't care what I think about them, but I think in reality that you are just angry that I pointed out something that is common knowledge that you don't like facing the truth about. What's more is that I didn't claim authority over anyone, this is something that you made up out of anger at facing your own out of control mentality.
edit on Wed20148V201430131 by DonVoigt because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

Humor me and explain it. I truly fail to see the difference between a police officer or people with his name getting revenge enacted on them with a civilian who is widely believed to be racist or people with his particular name getting revenge enacted on them. They are both very possible outcomes to having their name released to the public. Now in one case, the name is ok to be released, in the other you defend with accusations of callousness and being a monster for thinking that the name should be released. So explain how those two situations are different.
edit on 13-8-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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It'll be a sad day on ATS if any harm comes to the officer or his family simply because his name was released.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Okay, let's look at this objectively:

Show us (and I'm not saying there isn't a case or cases of this) where the names of a civilian were released, when after someone was killed, the local population started to riot and loot.

If the case is: there isn't one, then that would be the difference.

I'm not defending the LEO's actions either. And yes, I'm sure his family should be protected.......hopefully anyone with the same name would need to be protected (again, a person is smart, people are stupid), so that if the name was released, nothing would happen to them.

But I bet it would only be his family. What happens if a mistake is made? More innocents killed, hurt, etc?

But, again, if you can find a case where a civilian killed someone and it caused the same conditions we are seeing right now in St. Louis, and that they went ahead and released the suspect's name, then I would see your argument a bit more valid.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: mOjOm

What's the matter you don't like facing truth, I live in crook county just outside of Chicago and live in the middle of and am surrounded by crime ridden neighborhoods, I think I have a very appropriate perspective on what it's like to live in an area where I'm surrounded by criminals of every kind, that goes for street criminals, police criminals, political criminals, you type in capital letters that they don't care what I think about them, but I think in reality that you are just angry that I pointed out something that is common knowledge that you don't like facing the truth about. What's more is that I didn't claim authority over anyone, this is something that you made up out of anger at facing your own out of control mentality.


##SNIPPED##

Now, other than that gem on the dash cam all you had to say was that "As we all know nobody in the ghetto ever tells the truth because they are all criminals." Well, I'm here to tell you, you don't know sh*t about what you're saying. But just to make sure, let's do a quick test. Yes or no answers only.

Do Rich People in Fancy Houses Lie??? Yep, sure do.
Do White People not in the Ghetto Lie??? Yep, sure do.
Do Cops lie??? You bet your ass they do. In fact they lie sometimes and call it evidence and do it in court too.

So let's recap shall we. It looks like All people Lie actually. Not just the Black Ghetto People who are, as you put it, "All Criminals who lie so they can loot and steal!!". Very profound sir. But I'm sorry to say, that such statements are about as valid as saying all dogs are brown or all birds can fly.

But you go ahead and keep believing that because "they are all criminals who NEVER tell the truth" they shouldn't be listened to. Hopefully one day you'll see past your own bias toward the whole of humanity and instead try and see people as people.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:54 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

The sad thing is if the officer is found to be in the right people will call foul on the investigation.

Wether that would be true or not I couldn't answer.

What I do know is as a police officer I'm a target for things other officers thousands of miles away may have or have not done.

My post from another thread:

The funny thing is the 'us vs them' mentaility is coming from both the police and the citizens. It is a viscious cycle.

Take myself for example, although I do not view things as the police (me) vs the citizens (them) I am almost forced by the citizens to view things that way.

I am constantly criticized, insulted, demonized and threatened with violence simply because of my job. I have been told on many occassions that when SHTF I along with my family will be a target because I am cop.

Is that fair? I have never harmed or wronged anyone in my duties. I try to better my community on a daily basis yet I am told (and I believe) that myself and my family will be a target.

I (and a lot of us) am being forced into a corner. How am I NOT to view things as the police (me) vs the citizens (them)?



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: mOjOm

Once again you are putting words in my mouth that I never said, I never once said the term black ghetto people, that is you making up lies because of your hatred, but your attempts at trying to intimidate me for pointing out reality don't intimidate me.


Am I??? Here's what you wrote.


We all know that witnesses in high crime areas such as this do not actually provide truthful accounts of what happened,they provide false testimony to justify their looting, and rioting, and when dashboard camera evidence is revealed they will continue to say that's not true,


See how easy that is to verify. But ok. You didn't say Ghetto. You got me there. You said "high crime area such as this" but we get what you're saying. After all, you lived in the by the City of Chicago which makes you an expert of all poor area's of the world.

So am I lying??? Or did you NOT say what is quoted there???



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

I absolutely did say that, but like I said when you start changing words in an attempt to make a person look racist for pointing out reality, that makes you one of the liars that you are so angrily arguing about, what's more is that you even admit that I didn't say what you claimed I said.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: mOjOm

I absolutely did say that, but like I said when you start changing words in an attempt to make a person look racist for pointing out reality, that makes you one of the liars that you are so angrily arguing about, what's more is that you even admit that I didn't say what you claimed I said.


Whatever man. I'd hardly say I twisted your words. Plus, I'm not saying you're Racist. Your bias isn't about Race. It's about Class. The poor criminals in "those areas" lie but people in nice neighborhoods tell the truth. You generalize a whole city demographic so that everyone, in this case every eye witness in this case, obviously must be lying so they can loot and steal. Do you honestly believe everyone in that area was out looting and stealing too??? Every old lady, mother and father and child are criminals simply because of the area they happen to live???



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

You did in fact twist my words, you can't even admit that much to yourself. And at no time did I say people in nice neighborhoods are not criminals, as a matter of fact, I pointed out police criminals and political criminals in my previous post, do you think those police criminals , and political criminals are poor, by no means are they poor, it is my opinion that they are liars on the take as well, if you really knew enough about me, you would know that I had a multi-million dollar patent rights stolen from me by those rich people in so called nice neighborhoods, so for you to think that I have any love for them is an extremely overblown mistake.
edit on Wed20148V201418231 by DonVoigt because: (no reason given)

edit on Wed20148V201419231 by DonVoigt because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: mOjOm

You did in fact twist my words, you can't even admit that much to yourself. And at no time did I say people in nice neighborhoods are not criminals, as a matter of fact, I pointed out police criminals and political criminals in my previous post, do you think those police criminals , and political criminals are poor, by no means are they poor, it is my opinion that they are liars on the take as well, if you really knew enough about me, you would know that I had a multi-million dollar patent rights stolen from me by those rich people in so called nice neighborhoods, so for you to think that I have any love for them is extremely overblown mistake.


No I actually did admit to the words that I changed or added. I simply don't think any of it changed the meaning of what you said. You're right I don't know you and probably shouldn't make such judgements about you as a person should I???

Maybe you should think about doing the same before talking about the eye witnesses in that neighborhood that you just claimed to all be liars without any credibility.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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Absolutely not! This officer's name should be withheld until if/when he is charged.

There may be abuses by police officers, but holy hell! Look at these stats. Considering the number of officers vs. the number of criminal activities, I think they do pretty damn good.


A total of 18,290 city, county, state, university and college, tribal, and federal agencies participated in the UCR program in 2012. A summary of the statistics reported by these agencies, which are included in Crime in the United States, 2012, follows: In 2012, there were an estimated 1,214,462 violent crimes. The violent crimes of murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, and aggravated assault increased 1.1 percent, 0.2 percent, and 1.1 percent, respectively. However, the estimated number of robbery offenses declined 0.1 percent. Nationwide, there were an estimated 8,975,438 property crimes. The estimated number of burglaries declined 3.7 percent in 2012 when compared to the 2011 figure. The estimated number of larceny-thefts remained unchanged, and motor vehicle thefts increased 0.6 percent. Collectively, victims of property crimes (excluding arson) suffered losses calculated at $15.5 billion in 2012. The FBI estimated that agencies nationwide made about 12.2 million arrests, excluding traffic violations, in 2012. The arrest rate for violent crime was 166.3 per 100,000 inhabitants, and the rate for property crime was 528.1 per 100,000 inhabitants. By violent crime offense, the arrest rate for murder and non-negligent manslaughter was 3.5; forcible rape, 5.8; robbery, 33.1; and the aggravated assault, 123.9 per 100,000 inhabitants. By property crime offense, the arrest rate for burglary was 90.7; larceny-theft, 411.9; and motor vehicle theft, 21.9. The arrest rate for arson was 3.7 per 100,000 inhabitants. In 2012, there were 14,006 law enforcement agencies that reported their staffing levels to the FBI. These agencies reported that, as of October 31, 2012, they collectively employed 670,439 sworn officers and 285,883 civilians, a rate of 3.4 employees per 1,000 inhabitants.


FBI Crime Statistics 2012

That being said, any abuse is disturbing and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But, every unarmed person that is killed is not necessarily innocent. Let there be a full investigation and if charges are filed, then the name of the officer will be released.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Look I understand that people get passionate about certain cause that they believe in, and I hold no I'll will towards you, but just as you do I will defend my perspective just as passionately as you do. I've seen to much and had to much done to me by both sides of this paradigm that we are discussing for me not to have doubts about both sides of this story. If you look at the history of my posts here on ATS you will find that I maintain my contempt for crimes of all kinds because of the crimes done to me.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:46 PM
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Of course his name should be known.

How else can the public track officers who exhibit excessive force on a regular basis .

Oh wait I thought we lived in a free and open society with a transparent government .

Never mind.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: AnteBellum

Hmm... This is a seriously complex issue, but in my opinion it boils down to a matter of accountability.

If the department is unwilling to release the officer's name, what else are they going to keep hidden? It's a matter of trust. If they truly fear violent repercussions, which is understandable with all the misplaced anger in the area, why not just put the officer in question in a witness-protection/protective custody type situation?

I believe they risk more with public relations and a good relation to the community they are supposed to be protecting by not releasing the name. As others have said, there's been no evidence as of yet of the family presing charges, but, how do you file charges on a man with no name?

Not too happy about the actions of Anon, as a matter of principle and collateral damage. Pretty reckless in my opinion. I want to see the department responsible "man up" and take responsibility for their actions, rather than subversive means to expose the alleged officer. I don't want to see mob vengence, but rather justice.

To those who are saying that after an investigation all the facts and truth will come forth, how can you expect any degree of truthfulness if the PD is unwilling to even give out the most basic information regarding the case? The old paradox of "who watches the watchers?" comes to mind.






edit on 8132014 by CloudsTasteMetallic because: (no reason given)




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