Putin Defies Western Warning, Will Send "Aid Convoy" To East Ukraine

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: dragonridr

Sure, okay.

I guess Russia organized civil war in Ukraine in the first place, leading to that country falling apart. Oh no wait, it was a plot by west to overthrow pro-Russian oriented president of Ukraine. Reasons for that, i still don't know.

Sorry to tell you, but this was all done by russian citizens living in the Ukraine. They had a help from Russia, but not to an extant many of you are saying it was.

Red cross sent what? It's a lie that UN,EU,US sent any help to innocent people in Donetsk who are being constantly bombed by Ukraine army...

And then you say its Russia who destabilized the region...

As they say truth hurts huh? And yes Russia organised this revolt thats how separatists got all those toys from Russia and ended up shooting down a passenger jet. But thats what happens when you send Chechens in to do your dirty work it gets messy. And by the way repeatingover andover the US started it still doesnt make it true. See i laugh because apparently noproof of this accusation is needed and when asked for never given.But hey its always popular to bash on the US so why not right? See Putin media put this out there with zero evidence but of course since when do they need evidence when as we all know they have been fabricating there stories. Its hitting the point know even eastern ukraine is figuring out Russian media lied.

a reply to: dragonridr

Okay, we agree, media fabricate stories. Mind asking then on what exactly do you based your opinion then? Have you actually been there while this was all happening?

I care not to explain you the timeline of the Ukraine revolution or the reasons behind it, because everyone with two brain cells can see it for themselves.

Right after the revolution in Ukraine started, i knew what was all of this about. I knew who was behind it. I've seen it many times before, so i based my opinion on my experience.

You cannot make a claim while presenting zero proof just some obvious false statement. As I said many times before. There are a lot of Russian citizens in Ukraine. They wanted independency over Ukraine. It's not important weather or not they had support of official Kremlin. They had a voting. They voted for independence. I don't care what you all say, it was a voting, the same that was done here in my country in Serbia. And i don't remember anyone having anything against that voting, because hey, people had decided. For some reason, Ukraine did not wanted to accept the lost of Crimea, and so they launched offensive against mostly ordinary people with weapons while killing so many innocent people.

The rest of your post is just a bunch of nonsense, a lame try to accuse Russia for everything bad that has happened and that is happening. Seems like nothing has really changed since the past cold war...Same story, just different characters.

You are right. Truth actually does hurt.

a reply to: dragonridr

And yes Russia organised this revolt thats how separatists got all those toys

Keep telling yourself that. The fact is it was in a big part because of George Soros NGO whether you wish to believe that or not. And it's was not just the Maidan protests he's got his grubby little hands all over eastern Europe.

Azerbaijan
Soros is actively working to leverage his influence to support Samir Sharifov, perhaps by promoting another “Rose Revolution.”

After the “Rose Revolution” in Georgia, a number of Soros employees found themselves in power.Alexander Lomaia, went from running Soros’ Open Society Georgia Foundation to being Minister of Education and Science and later Secretary of the Georgia’s Security Council.

Ercis Kurtulus, head of the Turkey’s Social Transparency Movement Association (TSHD), said: “Soros carried out his will in Ukraine and Georgia by using these NGOs.

Forbes..
Just follow the money. Or don't as it doesn't matter to me.

a reply to: Bassago

You might want to actually read the article you posted since they sre saying Soros has nothing to do with US policy but instead has his own agenda. What that is becomes immaterial to the bigger picture i figure his motivation has to do with his childhood and his hatred for dictators of any kind. So this tells me Putin better watch out he may be next.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Bassago

You might want to actually read the article you posted since they sre saying Soros has nothing to do with US policy but instead has his own agenda. What that is becomes immaterial to the bigger picture i figure his motivation has to do with his childhood and his hatred for dictators of any kind. So this tells me Putin better watch out he may be next.

Did you just? Really? We are talking about Soros... Evil in its purest form.... I understand you have your own view about the world, but this isn't even open for debate.

Supposedly Ukraine border patrol and customs are inspecting the trucks.

MOSCOW — Ukrainian border guards and customs officers have begun inspecting a convoy of trucks that Russia says is packed with humanitarian aid for cities in war-torn eastern Ukraine, the army said Friday.

Forty-one Ukrainian border guards and 18 customs officers began customs inspection and clearance of the goods at 10 a.m. local time at the Russian border post in Donetsk, the army said on its Facebook page. The goods will then head to the rebel-held city of Luhansk, the army said in a statement.
Ukraine begins inspection of Russian convoy, Trucks are headed for rebel-held Luhansk

That's encouraging at least.

a reply to: Bassago

Encouraging for civilians yes but if Russia does not help the rebels in a more involved manner then it is only a matter of few more days before DPR and LPR throw in the weapons.

No wonder the commanders of both regions, Strelkov and Bolotov resigned yesterday as they know the situation on the ground.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: dragonridr

Sure, okay.

I guess Russia organized civil war in Ukraine in the first place, leading to that country falling apart. Oh no wait, it was a plot by west to overthrow pro-Russian oriented president of Ukraine. Reasons for that, i still don't know.

Sorry to tell you, but this was all done by russian citizens living in the Ukraine. They had a help from Russia, but not to an extant many of you are saying it was.

Red cross sent what? It's a lie that UN,EU,US sent any help to innocent people in Donetsk who are being constantly bombed by Ukraine army...

And then you say its Russia who destabilized the region...

Here is where this entire theory falls apart. If the US and/or EU had some how managed to "plot" the overthrow of the pro-Russian president of Ukriane then it must be asked why did the US and EU do nothing to secure Ukraine into its power sphere right then? NATO could have placed a military backed securtiy guarantee on Ukraine with NATO special forces "advisors" arriving over night followed other forces for joint exercises. Instead the US and EU did nothing and watched and still have taken very few actions to secure this great prize they went through all this trouble to get. Seems like they sure are not working all that hard to complete that plot.

On top of that Russia has a hard time explaing what exactly it is suppose to be doing in Ukraine. It grabbed Crimea at gun point and had them vote but, until they had men with guns in their streets they were prefectly happy to just be going about thier lives. The same in east where we are told the people want be a part of Russia, yet when the rebels show up they have no local support leading them to defeat after defeat and local population who thinks of them as drunks and thieves. So who exactly is Russia suppose to be helping in the East? Not the people who live their who regected the rebels. Surely not the rebels themselves who have shown to a drunked rabble of thieves. Who is Russia helping by arming these guys again?

And yes Ukraine sent aid to Donetsk. They turned the aid over to the Red Cross who distributes its. You know like a normal nation does. Not drive the aid all over and play telephone tag with Red Cross.

Russia actions in Ukraine have been poorly thought out and done nothing but, harm both Ukraine and Russia. Ukriane will recover but, Russia. Russia is in for long dark time unless somebody decides to clean house Putin and his ilk who think that the Russian people should suffer for their avarice.

a reply to: MrSpad

As to why US and EU did not do more to help Ukraine, you might be right about that. If not in a day then in a week Ukraine could have been included in both EU and NATO but that would also require approval from the local parliament and eastern region reps would have not voted, especially for NATO. Also, how much more headache and extra expenses would inclusion of an extremely volatile, near civil war mode state bring to both EU and NATO.

The Russian answer could be the same for Ukraine and BMDs. It can start to place military assets in Cuba along with BMD and offensive assets in a nice tit for tat. Will US be able to live with Topols poking on their eyelids 24x7 ? Russia can then go ahead and start to arm Iran, Syria with S-300 and more advanced weapons. Next would be start creating problems in countries where US thinks they put the fire out i.e. Libya and Iraq and Afghanistan. Nopes, American public won't be able to take that headache.

Your views on Crimea and Donbass are not convincing and answers have been repeatedly given on these. So it really is "irritating" trying to answer them again.

Putin's logic on Donbass is flawed to an extent. He did not provide much weapons support to the DPR/LPR and is hoping to create commotion in Ukraine once officially rebels have lost. In the process more than 1000 civilians have been killed and lots of buildings blown up by Junta artillery (a war crime !!). Whole south and east region beyond Donetsk, Russian artillery could have made it nearly impossible for Ukes Army to even put a foot in. Pin point weapons like guided Smerch and Tornado-S could have killed off any military convoy on the move and further coordinating with rebels armed with RPGs, AMRs and Kornets, they could have wiped off, again and again, any Junta convoy that even dared to put foot in that region. Even now, rebel soldiers are seen without any body armor or even Class IV helmets. In Slaviansk nearly 3-4 dozens of MANPADs were left behind because they did not work.

Basic point is Putin needs to help in more overt manner or all this bad planning and bad effort in Donbass will go up in smoke.

a reply to: victor7

Victor, I agree with flawed logic of Putin, but I think that is coming from Ukrainian public opinion that does not favour Russia.

So it is important for Putin that public opinion in Ukraine changes.

When Ukrainians see the behaviour and efficiency of this West supported government for some time and realize that their problems are unresolved, then they will be able to compare better.

However it is already a war and initiative has value in war. So I assume that Russia has lost the first battle of Ukraine. I do not count Crimea as Crimea was always Russian and it is only an accident of history that it was given to Ukraine.

a reply to: GargIndia

When Ukrainians see the behaviour and efficiency of this West supported government for some time and realize that their problems are unresolved, then they will be able to compare better.

That would be tooooooooo late !! Civilian people play calm initially and then side with the winning party. They are calm right now as they are hedging their bets given Putin did not arm the militia well. If militia was winning more local volunteers would have come to join the rebels. It was comical and very sad to see the DPR forces when retreating from Slaviansk had merely 1 dozen or so APCs, 2-3 30 year old tanks and 1 anti aircraft gun improvised on a flatbed mini truck. How could such group last against helicopter gunships, army of tanks and what not ??

Putin thought the way he took Crimea will be the same cheap "walmart" way he will take Donbass. Even when Kiev Junta had full army mobilized, he did not arm the the DPR let alone recognize them after the general referendum. Real weapons arrived only after Slaviansk was surrendered. Even now, rebels do not "kill off" the surrounded Junta army in various theaters because they hope to get some "prizes" in form of tanks or APCs etc. 72nd Brigade could have been finished off but Bolotov waited too long in negotiations hoping to get hands of the "prizes". This shows how much rebels value the hard assets which further shows they are not well armed by Russia...............for whom they are fighting for.

a reply to: victor7

Putin thought the way he took Crimea will be the same cheap "walmart" way he will take Donbass. Even when Kiev Junta had full army mobilized, he did not arm the the DPR let alone recognize them after the general referendum.

I'm not convinced of that. Putin wanted Crimea for strategic reasons and was willing to go out on a limb to get it. While it shouldn't have been a surprise I don't believe Putin wanted to get involved with the rest of Ukraine, east or west. East Ukraine trying to pull away from Kiev was probably not what he wanted to see because it complicates things.

At one point recently Putin actually wanted Ukraine to get bailed out by the IMF.

February 23, 2014 4:51 AM
MOSCOW (AP) — Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said Sunday that Ukraine should seek a loan from the International Monetary Fund to avoid an imminent default, but would have to meet demands for difficult structural reforms.
Source

a reply to: Bassago

While it shouldn't have been a surprise I don't believe Putin wanted to get involved with the rest of Ukraine, east or west.

If he never wanted to get involved then why is he throwing efforts to help the rebels and getting sanctions upon sanctions on the table. If DPR fails, then Putin and group will be taken to task in Moscow, even before the elections. Russians know that it is the energy prices that have helped their country. Putin only helped curb the "out in open" crime which soon took form of the back office rampant corruption. Now a situation is reached where this back office corruption has taken form of out in open corruption.

I think if Putin wants to get involved then he will go all the way to Kiev and leave out only small western part for Bandera types to make their own Galicia Republic or get absorbed into the Greater Poland. That would solve the issue for the long term.

Regarding IMF, Kiev Broke Junta owes Russia lots of money and IMF help would be channeled towards paying off that debt so that the Russian gas is not turned off. Another motive was to tell Kiev as to actually find out what the real motive of IMF bankers are.

I would like to see these SS Galician division boys and their grand children being awarded a country of their own. They would also fit nicely with other Central European NATO poodles. These people have too much hatred towards the Russians. With so much hate it is not wise to be living in same country. Bad ugly divorce but healthy for the kids i.e. long run.

a reply to: victor7

If he never wanted to get involved then why is he throwing efforts to help the rebels and getting sanctions upon sanctions on the table.

I believe East Ukraine held their referendum to join Russia as Crimea did. I'm not sure that was part of Putin's plan. While an obvious thing I still don't see that he wanted it t happen. If he did he would have simply accepted them into Russia and provided the necessary military support. That didn't happen.

As far as supporting east Ukrainian separatists Russia is (of course) denying this which either way I understand. As far as sanctions this was inevitable once Crimea rejoined Russia. Now it's become another part of the proxy war with the US using the EU to put pressure on Russia. IMO this will end badly for the EU. The US has little skin in the game here and could care less the damage sanctions cause to allies. The US game is to hurt Russia which may or may not work. Russia's POV is to tell the US to F$%# off.

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: victor7

If he never wanted to get involved then why is he throwing efforts to help the rebels and getting sanctions upon sanctions on the table.

I believe East Ukraine held their referendum to join Russia as Crimea did. I'm not sure that was part of Putin's plan. While an obvious thing I still don't see that he wanted it t happen. If he did he would have simply accepted them into Russia and provided the necessary military support. That didn't happen.

As far as supporting east Ukrainian separatists Russia is (of course) denying this which either way I understand. As far as sanctions this was inevitable once Crimea rejoined Russia. Now it's become another part of the proxy war with the US using the EU to put pressure on Russia. IMO this will end badly for the EU. The US has little skin in the game here and could care less the damage sanctions cause to allies. The US game is to hurt Russia which may or may not work. Russia's POV is to tell the US to F$%# off.

Putins game was much simpler than that create an enemy to hide his intentions. Rule one of dictator you need someone else to blame. Rule two is to convince the people that its this groups fault and not his. Rule three consolidate power by taking over the media thus controlling public opinion. And finally mover your people into controlling position to help keep you in power with just enough fear that they are scared to remove you. These steps are used by every dictator in the world to try to grab money and power and Putins following the playbook as they say.

First neo-cons tried to cut off Russian gas delivery to EU by making civil war in Syria, and after the regime change make a gas-pipeline from Qatar to Europe (that`s why Qatar is sponsoring the Rebels in Syria). With the help form Russia, Lebanon and Iran it failed.

After that the US tried to help out by making False Flag chemical attack and launch attacks because of that, but Putin made them think twice about that, because he warned them about direct confrontation.

If they don`t succeed one way, they just got the other way, it wasn`t surprising uproar broke out soon after that in the Ukraine. The 5 billion US money for so called "democracy promoting" has partially been used to arm and train the fascist groups in the Ukraine, as common custom for the US to do so...so they could be used for this goal.

NATO thought they could annex Crimea, but Russia beat them to it, they are still mad about it (and the other stuff).

After that the West tried to draw Russia in some second "Afghanistan," they have been baiting Putin all the time, but he didn`t took it. It would be easier for the West if Russia is engaged also in Ukraine, if they try to go after Assad and Iran, and it will be very expensive for Russia to have a war in Ukraine (just what US wants), Russia isn`t looking for that.

Bringing NATO on Ukraine soil means direct confrontation with Russia, they have been warned about that by the Russians.

So it`s all about Western (NATO) imperialism and trying to have a go a at Russia, only not directly. Libia was same deal, China had to evacuated 33.000 Chinese right away, also Russia was involved over there.

Just like Vietnam war, Korean war, Libia war, etc., they are all proxy wars and trying to stay away from going directly at each other. It`s all about World domination (resources and strategic regions).

a reply to: Bassago

If Putin never wanted Donbass then he could have told US/EU to recognize Crimea and he will shut the switch off the DPR militia's engine. He would have come out a big winner with no more sanctions and no more threat to his gas delivery to EU.

The point is presence of NATO mere 200 kms from Moscow gives sleepless nights to Putin and company.

I believe Kremlin is still working to pocket a big chunk of Ukraine in the form of NovoRussia. They are working on it but not too efficiently or even effectively IMHO.

a reply to: dragonridr

Unlike Gaddafi or Saddam who had ambitions for Sons to keep power for next few generations, Putin does only want to keep Russia intact until he is in Kremlin. This I am very sure of. His last election was fair and democratic. The main reason for his re-election was "Who else if not Putin?".............and that makes a lot of sense.

So sorry, your logic is not really convincing.

a reply to: victor7

The last thing the US/EU wants to do is recognize Crimea as part of Russia. That is a sharp stick in their eye and may be where the real east-west war occurs.

I agree about NATO being that close to Russia is a concern for them. After all it was agreed decades ago that NATO would not move into the post Soviet States. Obviously a big fat NATO lie.

Maybe Russia is looking at the NovoRussia issue now. I just think they would rather not have had the headache. Still these are Russian centric people so what can they do?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

o it`s all about Western (NATO) imperialism and trying to have a go a at Russia, only not directly. Libia was same deal, China had to evacuated 33.000 Chinese right away, also Russia was involved over there.

Libya would not have happened but for that "Little Twinker" Medvedev for asked Russian team at UN to "NOT VETO" the resolution. I am so surprised that Putin has this fagggggoot as his PM even now. I would take Ivanov or Rogzin any day over that little idiot.

No one is asking Russia to invade Ukraine and get bogged into another Afghanistan. Atleast give better weapons and recognize DPR so that already bogged down Ukes Army itself changes the directions of its guns on Kiev Junta.