The pope condemns personal relationship with Christ

Sounds like CAPITALISM to me. Just trying to promote his church more. I don't believe in religion. But i do know Jesus said he was the son of god and not god. And it was said by god to not worship and gods before him. So worship your god not his son. If you believe read and interpret the bible not the church. No matter what Jesus did, if you believe go ahead and be thankful for that, but you shouldn't worship him. It's against his teachings. The church also has crosses which is a craven image. And the book also says not worship craven images. Just saying the church has a weird interpretation of what the book says. Don't take my word for it look it up.

originally posted by: colbe

originally posted by: Nochzwei
GBY too.
You an wallow in your ignorance all you want
Jesus said Unless Ye be born of the water AND of the Spirit, ye shall in no wise Enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. So 2 baptisms. One of Fire and one of the water.
Jesus himself did not baptize, but his disciples.
While man can Baptize with water . but only our Lord can Baptize with Fire.
RC's are unfortunately idolatrus and worship photographs and idols and I am afraid I shall never have anything to do with RC faith
a reply to: colbe

Go read John 3:22, you are mistaken.

Jesus' term is "born again" in explaining water baptism (John 3). Quit using that term "born again" incorrectly.
Say instead, I was touched by God the Holy Spirit, mean what you say.

Protestants change the meaning and think all will believe them! If you read quotes of men who knew the Apostles,
all of them defined "born again" as water Baptism.

God wants you to become Catholic Nochzwei. In your lifetime, He is going to personally show you, me, all the world.
Some think as soon as 2017. Only God knows for sure. This is the "new" Jesus is talking about in the
Protestant prophetic.

I have seen paintings of Christ in Protestant Bibles. Explain them? Pictures and images, statues of Our Lord, His mother and the saints in Heaven are reminders of who we love. That is all, like your family pics. Images of "idols" as you say are pagan and/or "idols" not of Christ.


love,

colbe

KJV
John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, AND baptized.

Brother, it is you that does not understand the term Born Again. Do you even know that b4 the Holy Spirit can enter your body, the soul that you are born with has to be removed thru the shed Blood of Jesus? Praise the Lord.
Hmmm 2017 or earlier He wants everyone to be RC, Lol. Is the RC church gearing up to make manifest a false second coming thru some tech or black magic?

If you have seen the things, such as you describe in the protestant churches, then they are in error and ignorance. However only the truly Born Agains can understand this. Abomination of idols and photographs/paintings do not belong in the church of any kind.
Thou shall not make graven images of what is in Heaven above. How can you not understand this, even if you are not Born Again?
John 3.22 is incorrectly quoted

a reply to: Nochzwei

However only the truly Born Agains can understand this. Abomination of idols and photographs/paintings do not belong in the church of any kind.
Thou shall not make graven images of what is in Heaven above. How can you not understand this, even if you are not Born Again?

I'd like to make a small effort to aid understanding. I don't believe the condemnation is of photography, but rather, is of worshiping photographs or statutes, or any other image. The Church forbids the worship of any image. You can show it reverence and respect, you can use it to draw you closer to God in prayer, but worshiping it is never allowed.

Now if God simply forbids the making of graven images, then there are problems elsewhere in the Bible. First, in Exodus 25:18-21, God commands Moses to make two statues of angels (cherubim) for the top of the Ark of the Covenant. Later in Numbers 21:8-9, God commands Moses to make a bronze serpent, so that the people who were bitten by snakes could look upon it and be healed. Now it is true that centuries later King Hezekiah destroyed it; however, this action was done because the people worshiped it as a god (2 Kings 18:4). In the Gospel, Jesus compared Himself to the bronze serpent (John 3:14).

Continuing in the Old Testament, the inner sanctuary of the Temple contained two large statues of angels according to 1 Kings 6:23-28. In the following verses, Solomon also had the walls of the Temple decorated with carved images of angels, palm trees and flowers (1 Kings 6:29ff). During the Babylonian Captivity, Ezekiel had a vision from God about the design of the new Temple. According to Ezekiel 41:17-25, this new Temple contained graven images of angels and palm trees. These passages in the Bible indicate that God does not forbid the making of statues.

If God truly condemned the making of graven images in the "Second Commandment", then He must have changed His mind later in the Old Testament.

www.catholicnewsagency.com...

a reply to: colbe

With all due respect my brother please explain this: Why must i speak to a man in a box in order to communicate with Jesus?

At the time of Salvation believers in Father, Son and Holy Spirit all receive the Holy Spirit which is truth....The Holy spirit intercedes to Christ for us....not a human.....This is necessary in order for our words to be perfect for God...

I must disagree with you on this point ......The Capital C is for the Catholic Church, meaning ALL CHRIST BELIEVERS and followers.....the little c is for and you got that part right......the different denominations.....Christ did not establish the Roman Catholic Church, that was an act done by man.....Christ established the Catholic Church again the body meaning group of all Christians.....

Lets talk about money and power.....Why is the the Roman Catholic church the most pwerful entity in the world?
why do people worship the pope, a man, instead of Christ himself? Why do you worship Mary?

all except the fist question regarding wealth and power, I need legitimate answers for.

Thanks Kindly,
Pax

a reply to: charles1952

Interesting take on that idol issue which also raises another question...

Why did God command Abraham to sacrifice Isaac when it goes directly against God's other commands?

As Marilyn Winters once told me, after attending a Catholic charismatic fellowship meeting, that the Lord spoke to her saying, "They have Me on the cross and won't let Me down from it."

Paul: You are right inasmuch as God does not expressly forbid the making of an image, in itself. What He is talking about here is not "just an image," however, like some picture of a mountain landscape, or of a summer garden, hung on a wall in your house. What He is talking about is a likeness of God, the One to Whom all worship is commanded, or of those things pertaining to Him. God has not prohibited any likenesses whatsoever, only those that men conceive in relationship to Him and His work of salvation, which is what you have in your picture of Jesus appearing in a purported place of godly worship.

Chris: The Children of Israel made a bronze snake in the Wilderness, they made a pair of Cherubim for the Ark of the Covenant. They made pomegranites out of of blue purple and scarlet cloth with golden bells all for the hem of the High Priestly garment. So it is clear that a drawing, or painting or sculpture of anything is not prohibited. It is the worship of such images that God prohibits in the 2nd Commandment. And you have the gall to accuse me of twisting the Bible?! Wake up to yourself, man.

Paul: All of the objects you describe are ones that God gave direct commandment and instruction to be made:

"According to all that I show you, the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments of it, even so you shall make it" (Exodus 25:9).

Did God command you, or any of your people, to make an image of Christ? No. So who is twisting the Bible, and His words?

www.thepathoftruth.com...

Now when "God tells us" to do something, we have much more information to judge it against. God's relationship with Moses was really different, and largely based on trust rather than morals or law. christianity.stackexchange.com...

originally posted by: paxnatus
a reply to: colbe

1) With all due respect my brother please explain this: Why must i speak to a man in a box in order to communicate with Jesus?

2) Lets talk about money and power.....Why is the the Roman Catholic church the most pwerful entity in the world?

3) why do people worship the pope, a man, instead of Christ himself?

4) Why do you worship Mary?

Hi,

I'm not Colbe, so I hope you won't mind if I interject.

In order:

1) You don't need to speak to a man in a box to communicate with Jesus. I believe that you are referring to the confession of sins. If so, you may find this relevant:
In John 20:21-23..... "Jesus said to them again "Peace be with you, As the Father has sent me, so I send you."And, when he said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit, Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

2) When using the word 'powerful', are you referring to a temporal or spiritual power? If temporal, can you please source your claim? Many would doubt the veracity of any claim that the RCC is the most powerful entity on Earth.

3) Catholics don't worship the Pope. Catholics realize that the Pope is a man and comes with all the inherent flaws of humanity. The Pope has a confessor and goes to confession regularly. Not what you would expect from someone worthy of worship.

4) Catholics don't worship Mary. They give Mary the honor that they believe that she is due as the mother of Christ but she was a created creature, the same as you or I. As an aside, I believe that many of the Catholic faithful do put too much emphasis on Mary and that can be dangerous both to them and the perception of the Church by non-Catholics. You may be interested to know that Catholics are not required to believe in any supposed miraculous appearances by Mary.

Eric

originally posted by: paxnatus
a reply to: colbe

With all due respect my brother please explain this: Why must i speak to a man in a box in order to communicate with Jesus?

At the time of Salvation believers in Father, Son and Holy Spirit all receive the Holy Spirit which is truth....The Holy spirit intercedes to Christ for us....not a human.....This is necessary in order for our words to be perfect for God...

I must disagree with you on this point ......The Capital C is for the Catholic Church, meaning ALL CHRIST BELIEVERS and followers.....the little c is for and you got that part right......the different denominations.....Christ did not establish the Roman Catholic Church, that was an act done by man.....Christ established the Catholic Church again the body meaning group of all Christians.....

Lets talk about money and power.....Why is the the Roman Catholic church the most pwerful entity in the world?
why do people worship the pope, a man, instead of Christ himself? Why do you worship Mary?

all except the fist question regarding wealth and power, I need legitimate answers for.

Thanks Kindly,
Pax

Pax,

Hi, you return to reply with the same beliefs, me too but I LOVE your first question. Eric kindly explained and quoted Scripture (John 20:23) showing Jesus' establishing the confession of our sins to God via the priest, most of time, not always, in the Confessional booth.

A ministerial priests stands in the place of Christ here on earth, meaning, it is Our Lord who is the one who forgives our sins in Confession.

Why would Our Lord set up the forgiveness of sins this way? I can think of four reasons.

#1, so we all would take our sins seriously!! If nothing is required but remembering if you do, to confess your sins directly to God, who does this on a regular basis, especially now in these times? And our human nature, we forget what we've done or make excuses to deny our sins! I've never heard Protestant friends speak of personal confession, of going to their "prayer closet" to repent and confess their sins to God. I am not saying our brothers and sisters don't, never heard it. It maybe many non-Catholic Christians profess they are SAVED by their one time conversion to Christ in the altar call. This is good but what of their sins committed after? And another belief, "Imputation", that of Jesus did it all on the Cross, your sins are forgiven, you are saved belief.

#2, Confessing our sins to a priest requires humility.

#3, So important, you receive God's help, His graces given in the Sacrament of Confession.

#4, We are human, we need assurance, hearing the priest's (spoken out loud) Prayer of Absolution after we confessed our sins...IS...hearing we are forgiven. And our part, of repentance spoken, before the priest's absolution, we pray out loud, we say a prayer to God, the Act of Contrition.

p.s. I shared this on another religion thread today....John 20:23....Our Lord states to the Apostles and disciples
in the room, "whose sins you shall forgive." The only meaning, a fact, you have to hear someone's sins to forgive them. This would be the Apostles and male disciples, the first ministerial priests. They followed Our Lord's command and with the spiritual power given by God went out to administer the Sacrament of Confession.

From the beginning....

Some day, not far off, all Christians will believe in Confession to a priest.



GBY,

originally posted by: colbe
#4, We are human, we need assurance, hearing the priest's (spoken out loud) Prayer of Absolution after we confessed our sins...IS...hearing we are forgiven.

So when the church of Rome paedophile priests confessed their crimes, they were forgiven so they just went out and molested more children, but it was ok as they just confessed again, were forgiven again and repeated it. The person they confessed to just let them keep molesting children.

Some day, not far off, all Christians will believe in Confession to a priest.

I wonder when a paedophile confesses to a paedophile priest he is given words of encouragement to continue molesting children, and/or does the paedophile priest put that kids name on his list of children to molest?

A reply to Colbe and Eric: Ah yes and many Roman Catholics believe just as you have stated but lets take the scripture John: 20-23 You and Eric have taken that out of context. Here is a better explanation

Does John 20:23 mean that Catholic priests can forgive sins? No, it does not.

"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained." (John 20:23).

Context is king when interpreting scripture, and this is no exception. Let's take a look.

"When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced when they saw the Lord. 21 Jesus therefore said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.” (John 20:19-23).

The context of John 20-23 is that Jesus was speaking to the disciples (v. 19). He breathed on them to receive the Holy Spirit (v. 22). There is nothing in here about priests having the authority to forgive sins. There is nothing here (or anywhere else in the New Testament) about apostolic succession that says priests have the authority to forgive sins and that it is passed down.

Now further reading will explain that the disciples are not the forgivers but speak of the sins which have been forgiven by God.

Also if what you believe is true, please explain this scripture: Psalms:79 9......"Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of Your name; and deliver us, and forgive our sins, for Your name’s sake." why would this be in the bible if the people did not know it was God who forgives sins and no one else can do that.

As far as you never hearing of a Protestant going to their "prayer closet" Then i invite both of you to come to my Reformed Presbyterian Church....You see their and throughout my life I have been taught to confess my sins daily, the ones i know of and the ones I do not realize I may have committed. And ask for God's forgiveness and repent or turn from that sin...when I confess from my lips to God's ears then yes that is very serious business with me...if i forget the Holy Spirit will convict me and I remember and confess then. It takes a disciplined mind to get in the habit of asking forgiveness. Now, you may think confession carries a heavier meaning when it involves a third party, a man flawed just you and I, but I believe God knows my heart and more importantly, the fact I will have to stand before Christ and give an account for every single thing I did and said in this life is enough to keep me humble...

As far as our sins being forgiven when we respond to an alter call and are in fact Saved....Yes jesus did it all for us in his physical death and resurrection. He died for our past our present and our future sins...and this gives assurance.
I don't need another human to assure I am forgiven when Jesus clearly says so in the bible....That to me is relying on someone else and not taking on personal responsibility.....

O.K. so man felt a calling from God to give his life to God in the highest.....That does not mean God himself appointed him and no where in the bible does it state man can forgive man and God will forgive.....It does say that we are to forgive one another and in by not doing so our father will not forgive us. But there is nothing about man forgiving for the purpose of absolution......

I do not believe I can earn my way to heaven nor lose my salvation...once saved always saved......so please do not be telling people that the Roman catholic church are God's chosen ones.....We are all God's chosen ones based on our faith in Christ and what he did for us....He died for us so we may live with him for eternity.

Pax

furthermore and "whosoever believes will have eternity with Christ Jesus." here is the link........Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

originally posted by: paxnatus
a reply to: colbe

With all due respect my brother please explain this: Why must i speak to a man in a box in order to communicate with Jesus?

Lol. Sister, very aptly put.

You can use images to draw you closer to God in prayer? Completely false.
What can be closer to God than, the indwelling Holy Spirit?
a reply to: charles1952

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: paxnatus
a reply to: colbe

With all due respect my brother please explain this: Why must i speak to a man in a box in order to communicate with Jesus?

Lol. Sister, very aptly put.

You don't. You should be in speaking to God every step of the way. I hope you are all enjoying this Catholic bash-fest. After all Jesus said hate you enemies and don't forgive them. Right?

You Protestant posters here are well-taught to hate Catholics and don't think the Catholic posters here don't realize this.

My sister talked with an elderly Protestant woman and mentioned to her that our 96 year old mother was a Catholic. Her response: "Does she know Jesus?"

If any of you have an open mind I suggest that you watch this conversion story of a Protestant theologian who struggled greatly in his search for truth and faced extreme resistance from others: friends, church members and even his pastor who counselled his wife to get a divorce when he decided to become Catholic. Sadly, I don't think ONE ATS MEMBER will. I am sure you who know of this man will have already heard something bad about him. Something he said that speaks volumes to me (paraphasing) "When I meet the Lord, I don't want to tell him I spoke what I was taught, but what I learned."

The Conversion of Scott Hahn

A dear friend raised Amish > non-denominational church > numerous Protestant churchs now Catholic told me the one thing that she found in the Catholic church that she didn't find elsewhere was a home. Yes, it is home. Do you feel that way about your church?

Something that has brought others to the Catholic faith was a literal interpretation of Jesus words:

Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have not life in yourselves.John 6:53

Oh, you have communion at your church? Do you believe it is the body and blood of Christ?

What do you do with the unused host (the Body of Christ who died for your salvation)? Unless you are Roman Catholic or Orthodox who place the Eucharist in a Tabernacle, you throw them back in the bag. This that how you treat God?

But, but, but Jesus didn't really mean it literally. Oh yes, He did! Whenever Christ starts a statement with the words "Verily, verily" it is a command to take heed that what I have to say is of great importance.

How ignorant can you be. The protestants do Eat the Flesh of Christ and Drrink His Blood and partake of The Eucharist. Eucharist is not a catholic term by any means.
What makes you think differently?
a reply to: sad_eyed_lady

originally posted by: Nochzwei
Eucharist is not a catholic term by any means.
What makes you think differently?

Well, the church of Rome cult worshipers were probably told that by their church, so they believe it.

originally posted by: Nochzwei
How ignorant can you be. The protestants do Eat the Flesh of Christ and Drrink His Blood and partake of The Eucharist. Eucharist is not a catholic term by any means.
What makes you think differently?
a reply to: sad_eyed_lady

Then you repose the unused Body of Christ in a tabernacle or disrespectfully toss it back in the bag with the other unconsecrated hosts?
I have it on good authority only Orthodox and Roman catholic churchs do this. Tell me if your church has a tabernacle? Name names please.

If you listened to the Scott Hahn conversion video you would understand the difference between Protestant perception of the Eucharist and Catholics/Orthodox who believe this is God.

When Jesus said: "This is my body." He meant it. How much respect does your church have for the body of Christ?

originally posted by: Nochzwei
How ignorant can you be. The protestants do Eat the Flesh of Christ and Drrink His Blood and partake of The Eucharist. Eucharist is not a catholic term by any means.
What makes you think differently?
a reply to: sad_eyed_lady

Then you repose the unused Body of Christ in a tabernacle or disrespectfully toss it back in the bag with the other unconsecrated hosts?

Tell me if your church has a tabernacle? I would like to know if I have been misinformed.

Might as well be forthright and tell me what denomination(s) have a tabernacle? So I correct the canon lawyer who told me this.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Nochzwei
Eucharist is not a catholic term by any means.
What makes you think differently?

Well, the church of Rome cult worshipers were probably told that by their church, so they believe it.

The protestant denominations can be considered a cult as well.
If not, tell me how they rose above that label?

originally posted by: sad_eyed_lady

If not, tell me how they rose above that label?

They do not worship the pope, they do not worship Mary...

a reply to: hellobruce

Nobody thus far has takened the time to listen to the Scott Hahn conversion story.

Read my signature and maybe you will understand that have nothing but pity for those with closed minds and ask the Father to forgive you for the hatred I have witnessed on this thread.