The pope condemns personal relationship with Christ

Brother, I have nothing against you personally, but if you are Born Again, we ought to be thinking alike, which clearly we are not. So one of us is not a Christian.
Never mind if you have been ordained by man, but does not mean you spout all this dangerous RC nonsense, which others have also said to quit doing
a reply to: colbe

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: colbe

Hi, colbe

fact is the records show the scandal involved postpubescent males not children.

How do you define "children"? A postpubescent male at age 14 - or 15, or 16, or 17 (or even 18!) - is STILL A CHILD.

Males do not fully EMOTIONALLY mature until they are in their 30s.
Around 35. Lately studies have been saying 43!

Let me know if you need sources. Or, you can just do a search for "at what age do males mature?" and the entire first page will be plastered with "43".

A decade ago it was 35 that they said was the crux of human male maturity.

The testimony of the victims is proof it was homosexual. No offense to you, I am not going to argue the ages males mature. Homosexuals have sex with postpubescent males. Call it pedophile because people approve, support sodomy these days which is crazy. Grave sin, mortal to the soul is not even considered sin.


GBY,

originally posted by: Nochzwei
Brother, I have nothing against you personally, but if you are Born Again, we ought to be thinking alike, which clearly we are not. So one of us is not a Christian.
Never mind if you have been ordained by man, but does not mean you spout all this dangerous RC nonsense, which others have also said to quit doing
a reply to: colbe

See, God is going to personally straighten out our differences. Being human, we disagree, no one budges.
"Dangerous RC nonsense", I tell you, your Bible came from Roman Catholicism. You have been taught something
else so no matter what I say...

This is what stresses me, it shouldn't, God is going to do a divine work. In prophecy it states, some people will still
say "no" after the "awakening!" See the last three verses in Revelation 6. It is going to be tough, Me myself, I will
wish to hide, when God shows me my life in review! Pray, pray, pray, God's grace can then work to change hearts.

Pray for conversions.

I am your Catholic friend Nochzwei,

originally posted by: colbe

originally posted by: Nochzwei
Brother, I have nothing against you personally, but if you are Born Again, we ought to be thinking alike, which clearly we are not. So one of us is not a Christian.
Never mind if you have been ordained by man, but does not mean you spout all this dangerous RC nonsense, which others have also said to quit doing
a reply to: colbe

See, God is going to personally straighten out our differences. Being human, we disagree, no one budges.
"Dangerous RC nonsense", I tell you, your Bible came from Roman Catholicism. You have been taught something
else so no matter what I say...

I am your Catholic friend Nochzwei,

Then how come I'm thinking alike with other Born Agains on here and none of them, I know personally.
Yes I have been taught by The Holy Ghost. Praise The Lord.
Yes you are my friend and I your friend always.

I admit that I've walked away from this for a while. As sad_eyed_lady pointed out, there is a lot of misinformation here. Let me make a few statements based on Catholic teachings, then some of my own.

Catholics do not worship the Pope or Mary, images or statues. Their worship is reserved for God.

Having images is not Satanic, worshiping them is. The earliest Christians used the image of a fish to identify themselves. What church or home doesn't have an image of the Cross where believers gather?

The power of "Binding and loosing" which was given to the apostles, did Jesus really mean to give it to everyone who followed Him? He had other followers at the time, but these guys were something special in His eyes. There is nothing in the Biblical accounts that suggests Jesus wanted everyone to have the "Binding and loosing" power.

After giving the power to the apostles, did Jesus think there would be no need for it after the first generation? Then why bother giving it to the apostles? Just announce it to all of His followers. But there was a need after the first generation. The apostles, to ensure that the power was still available, handed it down to those they selected, and it was passed on in the same way through the centuries.

Peter had a special place among the Apostles. It does not surprise me that the idea of a "special place" also continued through the ages.

My final thought is hard to express kindly. Three quarters of the world's Christians are members of the Catholic Church. Within the first century after Christ's death we have letters from Romans to Romans referring to the group of believers as Christians. How does one declare that Catholics are Satanic? From where do you get your authority to make that charge? When Catholics say the "Our Father" at Mass, is that part of a Satanic ritual?

Have you come to believe it through an interpretation of the Bible someone suggested? There are so many interpretations floating around. You can find at least a thousand people agree with any interpretation you care to offer. Is the person suggesting it a spiritual authority with the power to judge other's beliefs? The Bible, of course, tells us not to.

A Satanic church is a church that worships Satan. While you may not agree with the Church, you have no evidence that they worship Satan. Indeed, when you think of exorcisms, casting out Satan, which church comes to mind?

Any other questions?

a reply to: BO XIAN

Dear BO XIAN,

I'm sorry not to have responded to your posts. I intend to begin correcting that.

I have a flaw in that I'm not to concerned about revelation and Bible prophecy. My faith is fairly strong. It is a day-to-day faith with an eye on eternity. I see revelation and prophecy as, among other things, a way to demonstrate the power and truth of God. I'm convinced.

Yet, what will be, will be. We can only prep our hearts, minds, spirits, homes, families to a limited degree--even if we were billionaires. God will still have to fill in the gaps and be our high tower, Protector, Shelter, Provider, Father . . . regardless of circumstances and regardless of the current events in the END TIMES script, sequence, schedule of events.

I agree.

Certainly not every message from a spirit is a Holy message, and our hearing can be faulty. I find that the Bible and the experience of holy people through the centuries serve as a good corrective. I don't remember the verse but it's something like "In a multitude of counselors there is safety."

In my understanding, not that it's particularly important here, the dark night of the soul refers to a period when the soul which has loved God, has God taken away. The love without consolation is a terrible testing period. I have not undergone it myself, but many holy people have written about it.

HE WILL BE CLEANING THAT MESS UP as He will be cleaning up many lives of many preachers, evangelists etc. and anointing them in dramatically different and new ways in coming months and several years, imho.

That, of course, is something to long for. We should also remember that
"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." Matthew 24:24We've got to be a little careful here over who is doing the anointing in dramatically different ways.

I don't happen to know of any private revelation which is approved by the Church.

The LORD GOD HIMSELF will, at some point, increasingly insist on detaching you from EVERYTHING which might in the least degree compete with your affections FOR HIM, your trust in HIM vs everything else; your allegiances to HIM vs EVERYTHING ELSE.. And that includes the RCC. I realize that you may find that incomprehensible at this point.

What I'm finding incomprehensible is what you mean by the Church. The Church exists to bring people to a knowledge of God and to salvation. It teaches and trains in holy ways. It is a spiritual hospital to check into when your soul is hurt or in danger. Love for the Church is certainly appropriate, and for some, for a while, dependence is appropriate. But it wants us to grow up and be spiritual warriors, men and women claiming our place in God's creation.

(As an aside, I don't know of anything by Lewis that is not a worthy read.)

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Thanks for another wonderful post.

I don't recall anything that I significantly, if at all, disagreed with.

Much appreciated.

a reply to: charles1952

I'll have to get back to you on this one. There are some significant differences between us which deserve more alertness, and less fatigue when I reply.

Thx much for sharing your perspective.

Blessings,

originally posted by: [post=18151448]charles1952

In my understanding, not that it's particularly important here, the dark night of the soul refers to a period when the soul which has loved God, has God taken away. The love without consolation is a terrible testing period. I have not undergone it myself, but many holy people have written about it.

I guess you mean wilderness, But The Holy Spirit is not taken away.
One cannot receive the Holy Spirit until the soul you are born with is removed/exorcised. This is the greatest miracle of all. Praise The Lord.
Now anointing is greatly misunderstood. Anointing means adding on and not replacement. Holy Spirit cannot be anointed but the 5 gifts of The Holy Spirit are the anointings to The Holy Spirit. The RC church has no knowledge of this at all, per my discernment.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: masqua

To presume a personal relationship is easier but dangerous. The mindset creates a feeling of superiority over others and from that false notion comes the judgement and condemnation of others.

Because it's only okay for Jesus to do that kind of thing, right? Feels remarkably like a double standard.

When did God promise you a single standard?

Have you got that promise in writing from him?

a reply to: Nochzwei

I admit I'm curious, what dangerous RC nonsense are you referring to? What is there in the beliefs of the Church (the Catechism is a good source) which prevents an individual from attaining to the presence of God?

Could this be a simple difference of opinion on how verses should be translated?

Are there harmful practices? Which? You can provide the three worst if you'd like. And what is your authority to claim the Church believes in dangerous nonsense? Was it revealed to you? Did you find it in your reading of the Bible? Did someone tell you it was?

I'd like to understand a little better than I do now.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Dear BO XIAN,

You know, we've covered so much ground that I can't remember where we disagree.

I have no problem with the idea that a large organization will be filled with people, and that people will be flawed. But how do you become the world's largest, non-governmental provider of education and medical care without having an organization?

I don't see how home churches could do that. There are other things for which I believe some organization is required. Is it sometimes inefficient, and through history have some corrupt men risen to great heights? Sure. I have no problem with that. But is the solution to eliminate the organization and never replace it with another?

Where else do we disagree? I think our spirits are remarkably close in a love for God and the desire that each individual comes to the salvation which He offers.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: Nochzwei

Dear Nochzwei,

I turn to you for help once again. I've heard of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit:

The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude (or courage), knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord.

And I've heard of the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit:

“But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.”

What are the five gifts? I've never heard of them.

I guess you mean wilderness, But The Holy Spirit is not taken away.

Fine, I'll take "wilderness" for now, but there is a profound and influential book entitled The Dark Night of the Soul. That's what I was thinking of. And you're right, the Spirit is still there, but to the believer there is no sign of the Spirit's presence. His soul believes that the Spirit is gone, because there is no sense of it.

One cannot receive the Holy Spirit until the soul you are born with is removed/exorcised. This is the greatest miracle of all. Praise The Lord.

I agree, praise the Lord, indeed. I think what you are describing here is the cleansing of Original Sin at Baptism, but I'm not familiar with your choice of words.

Anointing means adding on and not replacement. Holy Spirit cannot be anointed but the 5 gifts of The Holy Spirit are the anointings to The Holy Spirit. The RC church has no knowledge of this at all, per my discernment.

I think the Church has that knowledge. From the Catechism of the Church:

Recall then that you have received the spiritual seal, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence, the Spirit of holy fear in God's presence. Guard what you have received. God our Father has marked you with his sign; Christ the Lord has confirmed you and has placed his pledge, the Spirit, in your heart.

It's part of Confirmation and includes an anointing. It seems like the Church has got this one covered.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: Nochzwei

Dear Nochzwei,

I turn to you for help once again. I've heard of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit:

The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude (or courage), knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord.

And I've heard of the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit:

“But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.”

What are the five gifts? I've never heard of them.

I guess you mean wilderness, But The Holy Spirit is not taken away.

Fine, I'll take "wilderness" for now, but there is a profound and influential book entitled The Dark Night of the Soul. That's what I was thinking of. And you're right, the Spirit is still there, but to the believer there is no sign of the Spirit's presence. His soul believes that the Spirit is gone, because there is no sense of it.

One cannot receive the Holy Spirit until the soul you are born with is removed/exorcised. This is the greatest miracle of all. Praise The Lord.

I agree, praise the Lord, indeed. I think what you are describing here is the cleansing of Original Sin at Baptism, but I'm not familiar with your choice of words.

Anointing means adding on and not replacement. Holy Spirit cannot be anointed but the 5 gifts of The Holy Spirit are the anointings to The Holy Spirit. The RC church has no knowledge of this at all, per my discernment.

I think the Church has that knowledge. From the Catechism of the Church:

Recall then that you have received the spiritual seal, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence, the Spirit of holy fear in God's presence. Guard what you have received. God our Father has marked you with his sign; Christ the Lord has confirmed you and has placed his pledge, the Spirit, in your heart.

It's part of Confirmation and includes an anointing. It seems like the Church has got this one covered.


With respect,
Charles1952

Brother. The 5 gifts: Prophecy, Discernment, Tounges, Interpretation of Tounges, Healing.
One addition of my own, if I may: Empowering to Baptize With The Holy Ghost.
Essentially all these gifts are post wilderness.
The Spirits presence is always there, since it is indwelling.
Choice of words stem from my own personal BA experience + The words spoken by the preacher b4 Praying the sinners Prayer
Rest of your post is all misguidings of the RC church

a reply to: Nochzwei

Dear Nochzwei,

We're slowly working towards some understanding here.

You say that all of these are misguidings of the Church:

I agree, praise the Lord, indeed. I think what you are describing here is the cleansing of Original Sin at Baptism, but I'm not familiar with your choice of words.

I think the Church has that knowledge. From the Catechism of the Church:

It's part of Confirmation and includes an anointing. It seems like the Church has got this one covered.

All right, I know you're not happy, but what about, and why?

Do you object to baptism?

Is there no such thing as Original Sin?

Does the Church not anoint candidates at Confirmation?

Doesn't the Church call for the gifts of the Holy Spirit to be with the Confirmand?

What's the problem and why?

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s. What did you come up with for an answer to my question about the Church's dangerous practices? - C -

No Christian is ever happy debating with the dark side. It is wise to resist than debate.
However you are welcome to your beliefs, however erroneous.
a reply to: charles1952

a reply to: Nochzwei

Dear Nochzwei,

I'm a little disappointed in you. I wasn't attempting to engage in debate (yet), I wanted to try to understand what you were saying. You said that part of my post was erroneous. I separated that part of my post into four sections to ask which you felt were erroneous.

That can hardly be considered a debate. I asked you which of my beliefs were wrong, and you said, basically, "I'm not going to tell you."

Whether I'm right or wrong, how will I know unless people offer me their ideas. No debate needed if you don't want one.

By the way, implying that I'm Satanic isn't the best way to "Make Friends and Influence People." I don't believe I am, and while some posters disagree with me on religious issues, I can't recall anyone saying that I'm Satanic.

So give me a break, and let me know where I'm going wrong.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: masqua

To presume a personal relationship is easier but dangerous. The mindset creates a feeling of superiority over others and from that false notion comes the judgement and condemnation of others.

Because it's only okay for Jesus to do that kind of thing, right? Feels remarkably like a double standard.

When did God promise you a single standard?

Have you got that promise in writing from him?

I have a problem with a narcissist telling me not to be narcissistic.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: masqua

To presume a personal relationship is easier but dangerous. The mindset creates a feeling of superiority over others and from that false notion comes the judgement and condemnation of others.

Because it's only okay for Jesus to do that kind of thing, right? Feels remarkably like a double standard.

When did God promise you a single standard?

Have you got that promise in writing from him?

I have a problem with a narcissist telling me not to be narcissistic.

Conducting business in a wise manner by getting "promises" in writing is narcissistic? Maybe I've got the definition of "narcissism" wrong then. I would think "narcissism" would be YOU expecting to be promised something that no one else is...

It's ok - I don't have a problem with it - I'm still trying to figure out why I should care what you have a problem with.