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The pope condemns personal relationship with Christ

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posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 01:14 AM
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originally posted by: [post=18141807]FlyersFan 5 - Even stand alone bible christians who don't go to church but who pray to God are in a cult .. a cult of one ... but they are still in a cult.

Cult definition - a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.


I was not aware of this definition. Thanks




posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 01:59 AM
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a reply to: Fravashi

Well, I trust John Higham about as far as I could throw him.

My views on the Catholic Church and tradition, incidentally, are not bigoted, or based on, or informed by, bits of propagandist video, for or against the positions held by the RCC. They are based on what I have seen of the tradition, what I have seen of its nett effect over its history, and by my encounters with the sort of bigoted zealot one often finds within a church dedicated to that tradition, including being hounded from such a den of corruption, during my friends children's christening, despite being a guest of the mother of those children.

It is precisely the bigots and the zealots who made that vile structure what it is today, and I have no wish to join in. I agree that one may find the company of other people with a strong faith, divorced from a centralised structure or any human governance, beneficial to ones spiritual life, to ones contact with God, with Jesus.

However, there is no text, no scripture, which describes the Catholic Church, or any other centrally controlled, human administrated, monolithic power base, as being the wish Jesus had for his followers down the ages. He lead by example, which is why I follow a path which leads me to the homes of the people who have shown me a measure of his compassion on a Sunday, rather than to buildings full of toxic, hateful people, mislead by a corrupt and cancerous shadow of the true faith, into believing that a pope or priest has any business being between a believer and his or her saviour.

They have no place what so ever in that role. Their position is not ordained by Jesus, for he spoke directly against there being any place for a human intermediary between himself and his followers.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 02:42 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Fravashi

Well, I trust John Higham about as far as I could throw him.

My views on the Catholic Church and tradition, incidentally, are not bigoted, or based on, or informed by, bits of propagandist video, for or against the positions held by the RCC. They are based on what I have seen of the tradition, what I have seen of its nett effect over its history, and by my encounters with the sort of bigoted zealot one often finds within a church dedicated to that tradition, including being hounded from such a den of corruption, during my friends children's christening, despite being a guest of the mother of those children.

It is precisely the bigots and the zealots who made that vile structure what it is today, and I have no wish to join in. I agree that one may find the company of other people with a strong faith, divorced from a centralised structure or any human governance, beneficial to ones spiritual life, to ones contact with God, with Jesus.
However, there is no text, no scripture, which describes the Catholic Church, or any other centrally controlled, human administrated, monolithic power base, as being the wish Jesus had for his followers down the ages. He lead by example, which is why I follow a path which leads me to the homes of the people who have shown me a measure of his compassion on a Sunday, rather than to buildings full of toxic, hateful people, mislead by a corrupt and cancerous shadow of the true faith, into believing that a pope or priest has any business being between a believer and his or her saviour.
They have no place what so ever in that role. Their position is not ordained by Jesus, for he spoke directly against there being any place for a human intermediary between himself and his followers.




TruBrit,

You have BEAUTIFUL hair.

I'll reply to your last comments to help.

God wants our involvement in His plan. When you pray for someone, you are a subordinate mediator with God. There is special mediation for the ministerial priest in the New Covenant, greater than the Old. Aron's sons
are an example of the office of OT ministerial priesthood. See Numbers 3-3.

Some Christians take one famous verse (! Tim 2:5) to try and prove Jesus is the only mediator. You have to look at verses surrounding, the meaning in context. Read the verse following.

Jesus is the one mediator of our REDEMPTION. The word is "redemption." It is a shame King James' translators changed that word from the original. I'll post the original, sharing the English translation of the first Bible, the Latin Vulgate called the Douay-Rheims Bible and see the verses from the KJV too.

from the Douay-Rheims - www.drbo.org...

1 Tim 2:5-7
For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:

[6] Who gave himself a REDEMPTION for all, a testimony in due times. [7] Whereunto I am appointed a preacher and an apostle, (I say the truth, I lie not,) a doctor of the Gentiles in faith and truth


from the KJV - www.biblegateway.com...

1 Timothy 2:5-7
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a RANSOM for all, to be testified in due time.

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.


GBY,



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 03:19 AM
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originally posted by: Wifibrains
Why is the church scared of people having "personal relationships with Christ"...

Exactly...

The church is not a religion.

It's a body.

The church is people who have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

A video that illustrates the vast difference between the two:


"God's not in religion, God's in relationship..." ~ Robert Vitality



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 03:34 AM
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originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: Wifibrains
Why is the church scared of people having "personal relationships with Christ"...

Exactly...

The church is not a religion. It's a body.

The church is people who have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

A video that illustrates the vast difference between the two:


"God's not in religion, God's in relationship..." ~ Robert Vitality


Protestants understand the term "church" to mean something different from what the Catholic Church understands it to mean. Protestants see "the church" as an invisible entity, and for them it refers collectively to all Christian believers around the world who are united by faith in Christ, DESPITE MAJOR (38,000 +) variations in doctrine and denominational allegiance.

Catholics, on the other hand, understand it to mean not only those true believers who are united as Christ’s Mystical Body, but we simultaneously understand it to refer to a VISIBLE, HISTORICAL entity as well, namely, that ONE – and only that ONE – organization which can trace its lineage in an unbroken line back to the Apostles themselves: the Catholic Church. It is this Church and this Church alone which WAS ESTABLISHED BY CHRIST and which has maintained an absolute consistency in doctrine throughout its existence, and it is therefore this Church alone which can claim to be that very "pillar and ground of the truth. (1 Tim 3:15)"



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 05:20 AM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
Males that like penises are homosexual, no matter what the age.

The primary orientation mover of a pedophile is age, not sex. That's why pedophiles are separated out from homosexuals, who have gender as a primary mover of their orientation. One primarily is orientated toward age and the other orientated toward gender.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 05:47 AM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: TKDRL
Males that like penises are homosexual, no matter what the age.


The primary orientation mover of a pedophile is age, not sex. That's why pedophiles are separated out from homosexuals, who have gender as a primary mover of their orientation. One primarily is orientated toward age and the other orientated toward gender.


Liberals and the liberal media called the priest scandal pedophile because they support sodomy and the homosexual agenda.

The records show the priest scandal was homosexual. Wrong age for pedophile, right gender for homosexuals.

- - -

*Myth: Children have been the main victims of priestly sexual abuse.

Fact: Since more than 95 percent of all the victims of priestly sexual abuse, as reported by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, are NOT PREPUBESCENT, that means that adolescents have been the primary victims.

*Myth: Pedophile priests have been the problem.

Fact: Homosexual priests have been the problem. Proof: 81 percent of the victims have been MALE, and more than 95 percent have been POSTPUBLESCENT. When males have sex with postpubescent males, it is called homosexuality.

*Myth: The problem is on-going.

Fact: The homosexual scandal took place mostly between the mid-1960s and the mid-1980s. In the last ten years, the average number of credible accusations made against 40,000 priests is in the single digits.


www.catholicleague.org...



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 09:16 AM
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a reply to: colbe


Liberals and the liberal media called the priest scandal pedophile because they support sodomy and the homosexual agenda.


Dude. Learn to read. They are called pedophiles because they molest children. That's the definition.


The records show the priest scandal was homosexual. Wrong age for pedophile, right gender for homosexuals.

Fact: Homosexual priests have been the problem. Proof: 81 percent of the victims have been MALE, and more than 95 percent have been POSTPUBLESCENT. When males have sex with postpubescent males, it is called homosexuality.


I'd love to see the evidence for this supposed "fact". Just saying it doesn't make it true, although I can understand how you developed that habit. *cough cough*

Also:

The Catholic sex abuse cases are a series of allegations, investigations, trials and convictions of child sexual abuse crimes committed by Catholic priests, nuns and members of Roman Catholic orders against children as young as three years old with the majority between the ages of 11 and 14


en.wikipedia.org...

I think history speaks for itself quite well in this matter.
edit on 14-7-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: colbe


7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.


You don't "lie" because you believe your own nonsense. Don't act like that makes it the same thing as truth.
edit on 14-7-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 10:07 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Great points.

The RCC was not thought of by other believers and the world as anything other than another group of believers that happened to be in Rome . . . for 300+ years. imho, the verse they hang their whole raison d'etre on was essentially not seen as they see it for 300+ years.

It was only when the political old boy's club involved realized and decided that they could successfully manipulate and vaunt themselves into a status 'more equal than others' that the INSTITUTION began to rise into the horror that it has become.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: colbe


7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.


You don't "lie" because you believe your own nonsense. Don't act like that makes it the same thing as truth.


??? The above is a verse from the Gospel (KJV translation).

I care AI, Jesus loves you and so do I.

1 Tim 2:7
Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: colbe

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: colbe


7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.


You don't "lie" because you believe your own nonsense. Don't act like that makes it the same thing as truth.


??? The above is a verse from the Gospel (KJV translation).

I care AI, Jesus loves you and so do I.

1 Tim 2:7
Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.


Love from an imaginary friend. All kinds of useful.
edit on 14-7-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: TrueBrit

Great points.

The RCC was not thought of by other believers and the world as anything other than another group of believers that happened to be in Rome . . . for 300+ years. imho, the verse they hang their whole raison d'etre on was essentially not seen as they see it for 300+ years.

It was only when the political old boy's club involved realized and decided that they could successfully manipulate and vaunt themselves into a status 'more equal than others' that the INSTITUTION began to rise into the horror that it has become.


"To be deep in history, is to cease to be Protestant"
John Henry Cardinal Newman

"When looking at the history of Protestantism, I realized that I would have to accept that God abandoned the world to heresy shortly after the apostles died and did not restore a way of salvation until 1500 years later. There is no historic connection between Christ and Protestants. Jesus lived 1500 years before the Protestant Reformation.

I would suggest all should read historical Christian works by Justin Martyr, the Didache, St. Agustine, St., ect... They all espouse back as far as 70-100 AD the teachings of the Catholic Church. Where is Sola Scriptura before the Reformation? I say this not to criticize but to challenge all Christians to look at what they believe and why."


Both quotes are true. Jesus established one Faith, Roman Catholicism. God Himself is going to ask every person on the earth to become Roman Catholic in a grand, heart changing mystical way. Remember our discussion at ATS when it happens.

The entire world will witness a celestial event to get our attention AND see Our Lord's Cross in the sky. God's love and mercy, prepare for the "awakening" Catholics hear it called the "Warning" in prophecy.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 03:18 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: colbe


Liberals and the liberal media called the priest scandal pedophile because they support sodomy and the homosexual agenda.


Dude. Learn to read. They are called pedophiles because they molest children. That's the definition.


The records show the priest scandal was homosexual. Wrong age for pedophile, right gender for homosexuals.

Fact: Homosexual priests have been the problem. Proof: 81 percent of the victims have been MALE, and more than 95 percent have been POSTPUBLESCENT. When males have sex with postpubescent males, it is called homosexuality.


I'd love to see the evidence for this supposed "fact". Just saying it doesn't make it true, although I can understand how you developed that habit. *cough cough*

Also:

The Catholic sex abuse cases are a series of allegations, investigations, trials and convictions of child sexual abuse crimes committed by Catholic priests, nuns and members of Roman Catholic orders against children as young as three years old with the majority between the ages of 11 and 14


en.wikipedia.org...

I think history speaks for itself quite well in this matter.


For the third time, fact is the records show the scandal involved postpubescent males not children.

The scandal was homosexual. The world far from God defends the homosexual agenda, we're seeing sodomy made legal. You can't call something you approve of a scandal.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

The bigots and the zealots are replete throughout every religion. I'm with you on this point, the houses of people who walk the walk rather than buildings where they only seem to talk, and usually not even talking a good game. It's horrible these days everywhere you go.

If you find a house where they walk the walk, that's the only kind of people to be around.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 03:25 PM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: TrueBrit

The bigots and the zealots are replete throughout every religion. I'm with you on this point, the houses of people who walk the walk rather than buildings where they only seem to talk, and usually not even talking a good game. It's horrible these days everywhere you go.

If you find a house where they walk the walk, that's the only kind of people to be around.


Catholicism is the Faith, "religions" contain a little God's truth, RC has the fullness. Mankind, we are all sinners, that is why Our Lord established the Faith, we need the help of His supernatural grace.


blessings,



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: colbe

as was previously said:

The bigots and the zealots.

I prefer the non-zealot type. I'm a Muslim, who married a man who does his best to follow the teachings of Christ in his personal life... and to be honest, that was one of the biggest reasons I married him verses anyone else.

His piety and devotion to God. He is not a bigot, nor a zealot... he just quietly practices what he believes. He is someone I look up to and respect. People who try to shove pre-set sets of beliefs on people, not so respectable and really not people I would personally look up to and desire to emulate.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 06:57 PM
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a reply to: colbe

Hi, colbe


fact is the records show the scandal involved postpubescent males not children.

How do you define "children"? A postpubescent male at age 14 - or 15, or 16, or 17 (or even 18!) - is STILL A CHILD.

Males do not fully EMOTIONALLY mature until they are in their 30s.
Around 35. Lately studies have been saying 43!

Let me know if you need sources. Or, you can just do a search for "at what age do males mature?" and the entire first page will be plastered with "43".

A decade ago it was 35 that they said was the crux of human male maturity.



edit on 7/14/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Symptoms This disorder is characterized by either intense sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child (typically age 13 or younger). To be considered for this diagnosis, the individual must be at least 16 years old and at least 5 years older than the child.

Source DSMV
Most people just use the word pedophile wrong.



posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 01:33 AM
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a reply to: borntowatch

borntowatch,

I couldn't find your post to me, maybe it is in another thread. I copied it a few days ago to reply to your questions.


love and God bless you,

colbe

+ + +
Why can't I go forward to receive without being a Catholic?
The answer to your question, you must become Catholic first to receive. Catholics believe the most Holy Eucharist
is the tops, the pinacle of Roman Catholicism.

If the Catholic Church is a Christian Church and we all believe in the death burial and resurrection of Christ, then we are all believers, united by our faith.
Christians are not "united by our faith." The arguing here shows there is great division. Our Lord is returning to bring us together for in the new time of God, the 7th Day after the Great Tribulation and the Chastisement, the world will be divinely renewed and the Remnant will enter this new era, the Millennium, we will all believe the same.

Why does the Catholic church claim to be the only one true church?
Roman Catholicism is the one Faith (Eph 4:5) so she is the on true Church. History shows this, from 33 A.D. There is unbroken line from the Apostles and most of the mystical plus the famous science tested miracles are Roman Catholic. A big sign. There are many Eucharistic miracles to help people believe granted by God through the
centuries.

Christianity is not a denomination and it certainly isn't owned by the Catholic church.
"Denomination" is a term for the splits in Protestantism. Our Lord does not approve, He wants us all to believe the same. "That they all may be one", Jesus' prayer to the Father.

The church refused to marry my husband and I because I wouldn't convert to the Catholic faith.
It isn't a personal rejection of you two, a couple should be evenly yoked. There is an Old Testament verse, I would have to look it up. You may remain a non-Catholic Christian but as a couple, you have to have the approval of the Church, her "blessing" for a mixed marriage and the non-Catholic spouse has to promise to raise your children Catholic.

I was a believer but I had to be a Catholic to receive the church's blessing. My husbands sibling were both married in the church and both are now divorced, one of them twice.
On divorce, the teaching of the Church is the same as Christ, marriage is indissoluble. Christ gave His exceptions for divorce. If they are one of those exceptions, you can divorce but you cannot remarry.

My husband and I were married in a Christian church and our marriage has lasted for over 40 years. One of my husbands siblings marriage was recently annulled by the Catholic church, after 25 years of marriage. I say in God's eyes, once you are married, you are married. If you divorce, it is a sin but under God's grace, you are forgiven.
Congratulations, 40 years! Annulments, the Church looks at a marriage and decides whether it was valid. Authority to do this comes from the "binding and loosing" verse in Matthew 16. I hope your husband will some day returns to the Faith. There is a day coming when God is going to ask every person on the earth personally to become Roman Catholic. My Catholic brother did the same as your husband, he was married in the Presbyterian Church. At the time, he didn't know he needed Church approval for a mixed marriage. And at the the time, I had no idea of this fact either. I went to his wedding.

According to the Catholic church you need their approval to be forgiven.
I am not quite sure what you are saying. ?? People in your situation now these many years later can look into receiving a Convalidation. I do not know details, the exact requirements. Call the nearest diocese office and ask for some guidance. I think, Convalidation is a Catholic blessing of your marriage.

The Catholic church has a whole set of different rules which aren't based on God's Word.
The reason you think this maybe partly your upbringing and false things stated about the teachings of the Faith. How could it be true, the Bible, God's written Word came from the Catholic Church.

Your husband should check out Convalidation.



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