Ukraine attacks with chemicals, destroys schools and hospitals and kills unarmed citizens (News)

a reply to: Xcathdra

Breaking up of USSR was illegal as people were not consulted. It was the drunk group of Yeltsin and others who decided without even consulting the Soviet Parliament or even local republic Parliaments.

Upon such declaration, most of the countries in CIS will rejoin willingly. Others would need some talking and incentives.

Baltics can be left alone being small, insignificant and now part of NATO. So no need to stir that pot to start a WWIII.

Russian forces can then immediately move into S-E Ukraine.

Regarding the western areas, after some talk and local referendum, if the decision of people is to walk away then western Ukraine can become another nation and go their own ways with other Central European nations.

a reply to: Xcathdra

One video was from Iraq, but this is daytime video from Slavyansk:

White light: According to witnesses of the shelling on June 12, the bombs dropped were incendiary phosphorous bombs, a type of weapon which is banned by the UN, something firmly denied by Kiev.

‘The ground was on fire. How can the ground burn by itself. It burned for about forty minutes,' he added.

Photos and videos from the "other" side:

Russians claim Ukraine town hit with banned white phosphorus fire starter bombs (DailyMail)

originally posted by: sosobad
So let me get this right you tried to pass off a video of 6 people from Kramatorsk as a video of the majority of the people from Slavyansk cheering on the Kiev forces and the best excuse you come up with in 2 days is its Russia's fault.... How is Russia to blame for you trying to push false information?

Haha! Okay, one more post, because I like you and don't want to leave you with question marks above your head.

I simply linked to a video of the raising of the Ukrainian flag. I never said, this was the majority. This is your typical logic. I just see, those people were relieved and happy, when they see WHICH flag was hissed.

If you ask me about Russia's fault, you should know meanwhile, that I think the whole drama is Russia's fault. They occupied and annexed an important part of a neighbouring country. This is, how they suppressed their neighbours since a long time. And they will use their influence to disturb any development in the future.

If you want to discuss this further I would prefer a U2U, because this whole thread is absolutely nonsense and should be gone to the trash bin anyways. Or let's start a new one, that is based on facts and not pure fantasy.

a reply to: Xcathdrayour right it is old. I am done with you. it is hard to debate with falsifiers.

No new 'Iron Curtain' says Russian senator

Describing the situation in Ukraine, Matviyenko voiced the opinion that the dire developments there were enabled by the permissiveness of Western nations in relation to the Kiev regime. "The authorities in Kiev are allowed to do whatever they want. Their Western patrons are turning a blind eye on horrific crimes against civilians - black is described as white and white is said to be black.If our Western partners, the United States from the very beginning, had taken a harsher stance and enforced the international treaties that ban the use of military force against civilians nothing of this kind would have happened," the Upper House speaker stated.

rt.com...

since it is a Russian upper house speaker, I figure rt is okay for that.

a reply to: letscit

since it is a Russian upper house speaker, I figure rt is okay for that.

And that makes it any more credible how?

Don't Russian politicians get their news from the same place everyone else in Russia gets theirs...Government run media such as RT?

a reply to: maghun



So you understand the reason Ukraine would use it would be to smoke screen their troops moving in.

In addition to its offensive capabilities, white phosphorus is also a highly efficient smoke-producing agent, burning quickly and producing an instant blanket of smoke. As a result, smoke-producing white phosphorus munitions are very common, particularly as smoke grenades for infantry, loaded in grenade launchers on tanks and other armored vehicles, or as part of the ammunition allotment for artillery or mortars. These create smoke screens to mask movement, position or the origin of fire from the enemy.

en.wikipedia.org...

And that seems to be what your video shows.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You are correct, they make smoke three weeks before moving in...

Last week Serhiy Vlasenko's Facebook was hacked (Vlasenko is ex-lawyer of "gas princess" Yulia Tymoshenko). It turned out that the lawyer is in correspondence with a certain Olga Wieber about the withdrawal of the internal organs of not only dead, but wounded soldiers of the Ukrainian army and the so-called National Guard. It is reported that Olga Wieber - a German surgeon who makes an order to obtain the internal organs in order to fulfill a large order. One of the demands as follows: 17 hearts, 50 kidney, liver in a quantity of 35 pieces, 30 of the pancreas, 5 lungs.


Correspondence between Vlasenko and Wieber for the period from 22 February to 28 June 2014, as well as correspondence between Vlasenko and one of the militia leaders of National Guard Semyon Sementchenko. Recite dialogue makes no sense, as they are large enough volume.

original correspondence (russian)

there is also videos on youtube as news, but I dont post them, because they are extreme... They move with trucks and ditch them into a hole, the naked bodies of soldiers. Naked? It looks like they did some ops in that bodies. I ve posted this news 2 days ago... Russia also claims, that they found (weeks ago) more than 180 bodies of soldiers with missing parts.

Anyway, no news from me today, tomorrow maybe.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: maghun

So you understand the reason Ukraine would use it would be to smoke screen their troops moving in.

In addition to its offensive capabilities, white phosphorus is also a highly efficient smoke-producing agent, burning quickly and producing an instant blanket of smoke. As a result, smoke-producing white phosphorus munitions are very common, particularly as smoke grenades for infantry, loaded in grenade launchers on tanks and other armored vehicles, or as part of the ammunition allotment for artillery or mortars. These create smoke screens to mask movement, position or the origin of fire from the enemy.

en.wikipedia.org...

And that seems to be what your video shows.

You do realize the difference between deploying smoke grenades to actually move through, compared to firing incendiary munitions via artillery guns during day time on a village that your troops are nowhere near... Right?

There were no combatants in the village. Some rebels came by after the videos were shown on the net by the villagers and collected soil samples to test what kind of chemical weaponry it is.

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Every who posts isn't going to agree with you.....

Please read the following:
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a reply to: Vovin

There were no combatants in the village. Some rebels came by after the videos were shown on the net by the villagers and collected soil samples to test what kind of chemical weaponry it is.

The case has already become strong and strong for Russia to intervene and stabilize the situation. Wonder how long will it take to mobilize "full attack" troops of 50K strength. It can be told to Kiev that this is just an intervention to bring peace. If Kiev decides to confront then the "full attack" formation of these troops will get to the real business.

Shelling of civilian areas, using heavy weapons, using chemicals, cutting off basic amenities, forcing general populations to flee, war crimes on POWs..............these all cannot and should not be overlooked.

a reply to: maghun

The video has been reviewed several times now, including by UN experts. Chemical weapons were not used.
Russia has stated chemical weapons were not used.
Russia has apologized to Ukraine for the false claim they were used.

is there any reason you are trying to contradict the Russian government?

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: Xcathdrayour right it is old. I am done with you. it is hard to debate with falsifiers.

So in other words you cannot support your position with facts, so you launch a personal attack, pack up your marbles, and leave.

Feel free at any time to learn and gather some facts to support your position and come back and share.

As has been stated time and again the cold war is over and Putin must learn to live with the fact that whatever he claims is not going to be taken as fact based solely on him stating it. By extensions you guys are in the same position. You guys love to make claims, refuse to supply sources, and then get pissed when people challenge you. If you go back and read the posts on this topic you will see Pro Putin people demanding others show respect for Putin while at the same time refusing the same to anyone else.

I am sorry if my facts don't support your propaganda.

NATO Chief Warns of Duplicity by Putin on Ukraine

WASHINGTON — The secretary general of the NATO alliance warned on Tuesday that Russia was playing a “double game” in Ukraine, issuing conciliatory public statements while massing its forces along the border and smuggling arms and equipment to separatists inside eastern Ukraine.

“There’s no doubt that Russia is heavily engaged in destabilizing eastern Ukraine, and they continue their activities,” said the secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, in an interview shortly after meeting with President Obama at the White House.

Speaking in unusually blunt terms, Mr. Rasmussen, whose term ends in October, warned the West not to be fooled by moderate statements by President Vladimir V. Putin, who he said was trying to fend off another round of economic sanctions.

“Don’t make any mistake, it’s pure tactics,” Mr. Rasmussen said. “He keeps open the option to intervene if necessary.”

Mr. Rasmussen served as prime minister of Denmark before becoming NATO secretary general in 2009. During much of his tenure, the alliance was preoccupied with the war in Afghanistan, a mission far removed from its original role: the defense of Europe against a potential Soviet attack. But with Russia’s seizure of Crimea and its support for separatists in Ukraine, NATO has returned to its roots.

Click link for remainder of article.

** - WARNING - SOME GRAPHIC CONTENT CONTAINED IN ARTICLE BELOW- **

Russia’s top 60 lies about Ukraine


Reference the bs claim about removing Organs -

41


RIA Novosti (one of the largest news agencies in Russia) published an article about the humanitarian crisis in Ukraine, citing outlandish claims of pro-Russian terrorists. Direct quote used in the article alleged that 180 members of Ukraine’s National Guard were found with their stomachs split open and 300 more bodies were located nearby, with all of their internal organs missing. Since there were no real photographs to corroborate this assertion, in mentioning 300 disemboweled bodies, RIA Novosti linked to a graphic image that in reality has nothing to do with Ukraine. In fact, it’s one of many images of Russia’s war atrocities in Chechnya. Fake “news” of alleged organ harvesting in Ukraine (often accompanied by the same unrelated photograph) continue to spread like wildfire all over the Internet.

the pictures presented by the poster in this thread showing a soldier looking at bodies in a mass grave were in fact -

44
Numerous Russian news websites, bloggers and social media users spread the fake “news” about the disemboweled bodies of 300 members of the Ukrainian national guard that were allegedly found by pro-Russian terrorists/separatists in mass graves. The photo that was repeatedly used to illustrate this gory phantasy was taken from the archives documenting Russia’s atrocities in Chechnya.

The article of the 60 lies is pretty in-depth. It addresses the lies Russia has told using doctored photos and also links back to where the photos actually came from.

a reply to: victor7

Ukraine is doing just fine in stabilizing the East and South by removing Pro Russian terrorists put in place and back by Russia.

Russia has already threw the Pro Russian rebels under the bus by abandoning them after being caught lying time and again. I don't think Putin is going to risk destroying Russia from the inside out by continuing down his road of failed cold war shenanigans.

Putin should stop now and just snack on the same Sushi Polonium he used to assassinate Alexander Litvinenko, who exposed Putin's oligarch ties and the fact Putin ordered to killing of prominent business leaders so he and his cronies could take the business for themselves.

Kremlin silent as pro-Russian rebels retreat in Ukraine

Moscow (AFP) - As a Ukrainian government offensive sends separatists retreating from their strongholds in the country's restive east, there are signs that Moscow is seeking to distance itself from the pro-Russian rebels.

Facing the threat of biting Western sanctions that could further shake Russia's teetering economy, President Vladimir Putin has watched a string of rebel defeats without taking any action -- drawing accusations from separatist sympathisers at home that he is betraying their cause.

Having initially vilified the government in Kiev as a "facist" junta pursuing ethnic cleansing in eastern Ukraine, Russian state television has dampened its rhetoric in recent weeks.

And analysts say overt Russian involvement in the conflict threatening to tear apart the former Soviet state would simply be too costly for the Kremlin.

"There are rumours of a group of 'war hawks' who are pressuring Putin," said independent political analyst Maria Lipman.

"But military intervention may lead to serious, dramatic costs," such as deeper economic sanctions imposed by the West and the risk of becoming embroiled in an unpredictable war, she added.

Russia "is not seeking to help people who fight there, instead opting to leave them to their own devices," Lipman said.

The Russian parliament last month revoked a resolution allowing Putin to send troops into Ukraine -- a move Moscow said was designed to help the faltering peace process -- depriving him of the legal means to intervene, added Volodymyr Gorbach, an analyst with the Institute for Euro-Atlantic Cooperation in Kiev.

Click link for remainder of article...

As I stated, Putin has dug himself a hole where he is damned if he does and damned if he does not.

People on the ground know the realities regarding any Russian help coming or not. Mere 3 tanks and old rifles will not stand for long against the whole army with heavy weapons. Worst only 20-25% of these weapons have been reported to be working when thrown into use.

If no sign of Russian help, then separatists should close the shop and disappear from the scene.

originally posted by: victor7
People on the ground know the realities regarding any Russian help coming or not. Mere 3 tanks and old rifles will not stand for long against the whole army with heavy weapons. Worst only 20-25% of these weapons have been reported to be working when thrown into use.

If no sign of Russian help, then separatists should close the shop and disappear from the scene.

the article to date suggest the Pro Russians on the ground don't know. in fact from what's being reported it looks like Putin made promises to them in terms of support and backtracked on he agreement.

As I said earlier this appears to be the Russian version of the Cuban Bay of Pigs incident.

a reply to: victor7

People on the ground know the realities regarding any Russian help coming or not. Mere 3 tanks and old rifles will not stand for long against the whole army with heavy weapons. Worst only 20-25% of these weapons have been reported to be working when thrown into use.

Seriously you should stop because you know as well as the world the separatists have more than just some old rifles that don't work.







And the last pic came from this nice little article...

ria.ru...

Sorry you can't hide the truth.

a reply to: Xcathdra

NATO chief is a joke, he stated in an euronews interview just now that NATO became stronger under his control... He can say anything before leaving.

The propaganda and real war is not about Ukraine, this is war between US and Russia for the control of the EU.

Yesterday the euronews showed pictures about the latest attack in Luhansk, and first time they talk about self-appointed DPR militia and not about "terrorists".

The US-backed junta lost the war on it's own people in the beginning. Now they destroy all the infrastructure, because they know those territories lost forever. If US won't let the EU and Russia restore order with peacekeepers, the Donbass Army will have to free the secret service of Ukraine from CIA agents moving on Kiev, because they have own floor in the building of the ukrainian agency.