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Ukraine attacks with chemicals, destroys schools and hospitals and kills unarmed citizens (News)

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posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 10:59 PM
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Moscow should nevertheless keep supplying weapons and funds to S-E separatists. Bankrupt Kiev cannot fight on for months and months onwards.

If Kiev Junta gets its hands free from that theater then it will start throwing efforts towards Crimea and invite other nations to help in the war effort against Russia. That can be very catastrophic scenario for the global well being.

Kiev Junta will also try to create problems in Russia's south. The US sponsored and cultivated ISIS in Iraq will also be used to create trouble in Russia's Caucasus region. These two prongs are in a making which need to be blunted and smashed right away.




posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 02:56 AM
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a reply to: victor7

Since Crimea is a part of Ukraine, Ukraine has every right to reclaim it from Russian occupation forces.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 03:34 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

They did a referendum and they decided to be free from the nazis. The problem with the nazis in Ukraine as a greek, they are disturbing, they also use an ancient Hellenic symbol for their pathetic flag! That makes me mad, they spoil our sacred symbols for their pathetic existence. There will none left when nemesis comes.
I believe, since people of crimea decided that, Ukraine is the one that violates things... not the crimea.
There is also a wiki for the referendum. link
Its not an illegal procedure.
Also NATO-EU crossed the limits by far. You know what was the first thing they demanded from Ukraine ? It was not the debt, the problems ukrainians got, it was this bill! Its unbelievable.

link

I am not against the rights they want to have, but disturbing the culture of a country that is against and also pay them to make wars and crimes after, its by far crossed the red line. West violates cultures and destroys nations.. There is no empire that did that, only the otomans... But even Ottomans respected the temples (not all) but they did.. Today is even more extreme.

And thats my personal opinion. Also crimea and the surround area is very emotional for us the greeks, its where Iasonas went and killed the golden thread bull, he also married there and lived for the rest of his life. Here is Iasonas story, you can translate it. Iolko is the today Crimea link

(there is news while ago, but I wont post them, because they are a bit extreme with videos, its very disturbing what the fake nazis do)
edit on 8-7-2014 by Ploutonas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 04:25 AM
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a reply to: Ploutonas

The referendum violated the Ukraine and Crimean constitutions. It required the vote of all of Ukrainians for Crimea to do what it did. Disturb the culture? Are you serious? If we use that logic then all Russians should be removed from Crimea and control returned to the Tartars / Turkey. Turkey's claim on Crimea goes back 300 years before it fell into Russian control. The government of Turkey at the time made and agreement with Catherine the Great of Russia that should Crimea's status change, Turkey gets first crack at the territory because of the Tartar population there.

In addition all Russians should be removed from Kaliningrad as it belonged to Germany and was never returned after the war.

You really need to get over the propaganda "Nazi" bs. Its been shown time and again that Russia has more NAZIS in its government than Ukraine does with theirs - 35 Ukraine / 50+ Russia.

Using your logic The Russian government is all full of Nazis.

Since the thread topic has been debunked - Russia lying about Chemical weapon use in Ukraine and getting caught - Feel free to start another thread on any topic and we can move our debate there.


edit on 8-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 04:30 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

If a culture have rights into this lands, its not Mongolians, but us... What is 300 years of occupation, compared with the thousands of history from us. So lets stop talking about turks, turks never had any of it, they just occupied never conquered. And today belongs to Ukranian people, not nato or nazi extremists.

And the truth is, that even today, thousands of greeks live there...
edit on 8-7-2014 by Ploutonas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 04:35 AM
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a reply to: Ploutonas

Typical response -

A - Who is "us"?
B - What has been around for a thousand years?

Argue that no one has claims to the land while arguing Russia can. You do know you contradicted yourself right?

As for your other comment you really need to read up on your history. Ukraine used to be a part of the Ottoman Empire. A large chunk of western Russia was a part of the Ukraine a long time ago as well.

If NATO / NAZI's are not allowed then Russia is not allowed.

You don't get your double standard on this one.


edit on 8-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 04:44 AM
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And am telling ya, the only land mongolians own, is mongolia itself (5000bc and onwards), since chinense kicked them out, they spread and occupied, never conquered. So you do need to learn the difference of occupation and conquer. My country also never conquered, it was occupied... Occupations = they didnt make it to own it. So I believe, you have to learn the difference for these 2 things. Crimea was occupied and they kicked them out and many other countries also. Even Spain was occupied by turks, but they got kicked out... Turks never make it to cleanse the land and conquer it. So its not ottoman at all.. Maybe they dont teach you these things in ur schools.

Its like a field that someone is trespassing it and when I get notice I kick him out... never lost it. Thats what turks did, they have a kind of small militant mini governments around the lands they occupied, but the owners of the land, lived and prospered and they kicked them in the first chance. Even today turkey, they got about half million greeks there and another million here in greece with titles from the lands they own.. lol They genocide many, but they didnt made it whole.

Now lets go back to the topic, I think also putin said that, after islamists requested their recognition... He told them that if someone deserves recognition, is the greeks that live there.. There is a reason for it.
edit on 8-7-2014 by Ploutonas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:08 AM
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a reply to: Ploutonas

You did not bother to answer my question about your post -
* - Who is "us".
* - What was around for a "thousand" years.

A - Crimea was a part of Ukraine the moment the Soviet Government transferred it to them.

B - The Russians lived their longer argument you made is not supported by Putin. Putin did what he did in Crimea because of his schizophrenic paranoia that is directed at the West. At least that's the latest lie he is using. He did not go into Ukraine for Ethnic Russians. He used Ethnic Russians to further his own goals.

C - If Putin believed what he says then Chechnya would be a sovereign nation, as would Dagestan, in addition to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Belarus, Moldova, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Bulgaria, Romania, etc etc.

Had Russian leaders kept their word starting from the end of WWII, the countries above would have had their own sovereign nations and governments instead of being vassals of Russia.

Putin has no business speaking about the will of the people when he denies the very same at home.

As for topic - There is nothing left to discuss. The WMD claim was false and never occurred. There is not much else to discuss on that topic. Hence the reason I said we could start a new thread to debate.


edit on 8-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:11 AM
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a reply to: Ploutonas




Now lets go back to the topic, I think also putin said that, after islamists requested their recognition... He told them that if someone deserves recognition, is the greeks that live there.. There is a reason for it.


When did the Greeks become a topic of this thread?

Here maybe you should learn about history in Ukraine.


Ukraine was known as “Kievan Rus” (from which Russia is a derivative) up until the 16th century. In the 9th century, Kiev was the major political and cultural center in eastern Europe. Kievan Rus reached the height of its power in the 10th century and adopted Byzantine Christianity. The Mongol conquest in 1240 ended Kievan power. From the 13th to the 16th century, Kiev was under the influence of Poland and western Europe. The negotiation of the Union of Brest-Litovsk in 1596 divided the Ukrainians into Orthodox and Ukrainian Catholic faithful. In 1654, Ukraine asked the czar of Moscovy for protection against Poland, and the Treaty of Pereyasav signed that year recognized the suzerainty of Moscow. The agreement was interpreted by Moscow as an invitation to take over Kiev, and the Ukrainian state was eventually absorbed into the Russian Empire.


www.infoplease.com...



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Maybe u didnt read it at all, I wrote that our ancient history relates with Crimea, crimea has the iron mines and there the greeks got the ore for their weapons and we speak about the age of Odysseus, they called it Taurida (taurus) bull, like the golden threaded taurus that Iasonas took (he also married a girl from Taurida), the ottomans changed the name. But I am sure you dont know any of it. And lets go back to the topic
edit on 8-7-2014 by Ploutonas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:54 AM
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a reply to: Ploutonas





Maybe u didnt read it at all, I wrote that our ancient history relates with Crimea, crimea has the iron mines and there the greeks got the ore for their weapons and we speak about the age of Odysseus.


And you also said this...



And am telling ya, the only land mongolians own, is mongolia itself (5000bc and onwards), since chinense kicked them out, they spread and occupied, never conquered.



So you say...


When night fell the Mongols held their positions while the Kievans retreated to the central parts of the city. Many people crowded into the Church of the Tithes. The next day, as the Mongols commenced the final assault, the church's balcony collapsed under the weight of the people standing on it, crushing many. After the Mongols won the battle, they plundered Kiev. Most of the population was massacred. Out of 50,000 inhabitants before the invasion, about 2,000 survived. Most of the city was burned and only six out of forty major buildings remained standing. Dmytro, however, was shown mercy for his bravery.

After their victory at Kiev, the Mongols were free to advance into Halych-Volhynia and Poland.


en.wikipedia.org...(1240)

Surely sounds like they conquered Kiev in 1240 not just occupied it. But hey it's history and you can tell it however you want.

Also what topic as it has been shown to be a lie so this thread is in fact a fallacy.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:07 AM
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a reply to: Ploutonas




they called it Taurida


Would that be the same Taurida as this?


The Taurida Soviet Socialist Republic (Russian: Советская Социалистическая Республика Тавриды, Sovetskaja Socialističeskaya Respublika Tavridy ; Ukrainian: Радянська Соціалістична Республіка Тавриди, Radjans'ka Socialistyčna Respublika Tavrydy) was an unsuccessful attempt to establish a Soviet republic situated in the Crimean Peninsula independent of Soviet Russia; it did not sign the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk.

It existed from 19 March to 30 April 1918 and was recognised by the Russian SFSR.[1]


en.wikipedia.org...



crimea has the iron mines and there the greeks got the ore for their weapons


So then they went out of country to get something that was mined in their country?


The Greeks used bronze, a mix of tin and copper, for their weapons and tools. Later, iron was used because it produced harder tools and weapons. Athens found a large amount of silver in the mines at Laurium. At its peak, Athens had over 20,000 slaves mining at Laurium. At the request of Themistocles, they used the money from these mines to pay for a large navy. This investment in the navy paid off in their development of a large trade network around the Mediterranean.

There were very good mining areas around Greece. The northern mountains of Thrace had large gold and silver deposits. Cyprus was known for its copper, gold, and iron. Laurium was known for the sliver and iron ore deposits.


historylink101.com...

Seems as though you may want to refresh your history a bit.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:09 AM
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I think you have passion with turks, are u ? We said lets keep up the topic... Today russia poppulation is mongolians, siberian russians (many tribes) kozacks, etc and jews, is it... So wheres the problem, its 3 races in 1 big land. And I think Kozacks kicked out the ottomans, is it? Maybe thats why there is so much rage between them, as victor said. (if you type on google, "road rage" its all about russians, moving out their cars and kill each other. and take some history from the age of Iasonas, up to date in Crimea link

Also something about the referendum... You country USA and UK, forced CRETA for a small period, to make a mini referendum in CRETA (not in greece) but only in Creta (I could give you links), to be an independent state.. So if your country and brits wants it, its allowed? Cretans denied so its not going to happen, creta was always part of Greece and greeks something other countries dont, we are very united. And all this happens because around Creta, there is many oils and they want to eat them easier and they still trying, but nobody gives them any attention, with propagandas. And what happened in Crimea, reminds me exactly what your country (USA) and brits, tried to do in Creta. So lets not speak, whats ilegal and whats not.
edit on 8-7-2014 by Ploutonas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:10 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: victor7

Since Crimea is a part of Ukraine, Ukraine has every right to reclaim it from Russian occupation forces.



To solve this issue, Moscow should declare the dissolution of USSR in 1991 as an illegal act.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: victor7It can be declared until Putin loses his voice. It does not and will not change the fact Crimea is a part of Ukraine.

Secondly Russia would lose territory should it go down that asinine road.

Third, and contrary to the propaganda coming out of Russia, any attempt to make that drastic of a change without the sovereign nations in question having input, would result in the destruction of Russia, not expansion.

You want to see how quickly countries, some of which have drastic differences with each other, will set those differences aside to face down Russia. Its not the cake walk Putin and those who think Russia is the end all be all on the globe would have you think.

Ironic Putin will argue for independence of a group of people while denying the same to those areas under Moscow's control.

Somone should ask Putin that question so we can see which one of his two faces will provide the answer.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 09:19 AM
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originally posted by: Siddharta

originally posted by: sosobad
And yes you did lie, trying to pass off the reaction of 6 people as the whole of Slovyansk is lying and you know what you are doing also so you are purposely spreading disinfo.


What kind of argumentation is that? Russia let fall Girkin like a hot potato and so also all the "freedom fighters". This part of the game is over. And youwant me to prove that there were more than six persons which I never denied?

The next step will be that Russia will not intervene in any fightings nor support it too openly. They will support unrest and attacks within Ukraine without showing their involvement. The Donetsk Republik and the Luhansk Republic are history. They only could come up with Russian support in the background. That has been pulled out of the game.



So let me get this right you tried to pass off a video of 6 people from Kramatorsk as a video of the majority of the people from Slavyansk cheering on the Kiev forces and the best excuse you come up with in 2 days is its Russia's fault.... How is Russia to blame for you trying to push false information?



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdraby your logic. we should all leave America and give it back to the native Indians. you are so wishy washy and I love how you and your buddies continue to push these threads into uselessness.
btw, ownership is 9/10ths of the law.



edit on 06/02/2010 by letscit because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 10:22 AM
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We bring to the attention of Global Research Readers a video on the atrocities committed in Eastern Ukraine including the indiscriminate killing of unarmed civilians. This video was put together by the communities in Eastern Ukraine which are the object of the attacks.

The mainstream media is silent on the issue. These videos are the object of censorship.

As described in the video, Ukraine's National Guard which is supported and financed by the West is controlled by Neo-Nazis with Nazi emblems.

Documented in the video, war crimes are being committed by both the Ukrainian Army and the Ukrainian National Guard.

In the media's coverage of unfolding atrocities directed against civilians in Eastern Ukraine, the words Nazi, Fascist or Neo-Nazi are a taboo. They have been eliminated from the anthology of investigative reporting.

The mainstream media by denying the very existence of these crimes against humanity committed by Neo-Nazi military and paramilitary formations on the orders of the Kiev government is complicit under the Nuremberg Principles of "crimes against peace"

Spread the word far and wide. In solidarity with the people of Eastern Ukraine.

Michel Chossudovsky, Global Research, July 5, 2014

* * *

Mainstream media channels won't show you any of this footage. This is a war they don't want you to see:.

Ukraine's Kiev Regime is not "Officially" A Neo-Nazi Government By Prof Michel Chossudovsky, June 01, 2014

Kiev's warmongers and fascists on the ground keep on killing innocent civilians.

90% of the footage shown here was filmed by the locals and is readily available on YouTube. The blood that's being spilled over by the Kiev regime will never be washed away.


If you want to see pictures of July 2nd airstrike on Staraya Kondrashovka, here they are (WARNING, GRAPHIC).

The Ukrainian mainstream media immediately blamed the incident on the rebels who don't even have an aircraft. On the 3rd of July, a deputy commander of the Public Relations of the Azov Battalion admitted that the cause of fire was pilot "error".

All of the war crimes committed by Ukrainian government and their punitive battalions are blamed on the rebels. The rebels wouldn't kill their own parents, wives, and children since over 90% of the rebels are made up of local citizens.

Facts speak otherwise and images don't lie. Ukrainian propaganda machine is really on it. Disgusting.

www.globalresearch.ca... /war-crimes-and-atrocities-committed-by-ukraines-armed-forces-and-national-guard/5390016




posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 10:31 AM
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an incredibly awesome article, videos and many different links to exactly what is going on in Ukraine. may be the best source on net. might wanna screenshot and save it also. I have!

www.globalresearch.ca... eastern-ukraine-of-ethnic-russians/5388101

When one looks at that Russian TV report, and listens to the victims and sees the bombed houses, the only way to not believe it would be to be assuming lots of things that are not so, because that was about the prior 24-hour’s events, and even if the doctoring of a still photo can be done fast (within 24 hours), and even if the creation of a fictional video can be very persuasive if done slow (as a major studio production with hired actors, etc.), this doesn’t look like that at all, and appeared immediately after the event. Moreover, the present reporter has researched extensively the history and events leading up to today’s reality in Ukraine, and the TV news report that is presented there on Russian TV fits 100% with that solidly documented background and history.

So, some of those prior news reports will be listed and linked-to here, to provide that background and history, so that a reader can understand not only why Russian Television is covering the American-run ethnic cleansing operation in southeastern Ukraine, but also why the U.S. aristocracy’s “news” media (and those of allied aristocracies) do not.





this whole situation is very sad and evil. all for freaking money. the Russians where leaning west, and their civilization was all adopting western practices. there is no denying they will be our enemy for a long time now. could have kept working together. don't see this happening anymore. not for a long time after this is all resolved. im sorry I do not have the evil in my heart that many of my countrymen have. I will not be able to forget.

edit on 06/02/2010 by letscit because: (no reason given)



To subscribe to, or otherwise pay for, “news” in the United States, is to purchase propaganda; it’s to pay for the “privilege” of being deceived by the national (and/or local) aristocracy. True news can be found free online, and the reader can check its sources instantly by just clicking on its links.

TV, magazines and newspapers are so passé. If one wants lies, one doesn’t have to pay to be deceived; one can just go to that operation’s website. And if one wants truth, one can get it just by checking out the links. Any news story that doesn’t have links isn’t worth reading, because lies are then being intentionally made difficult to detect.

The only way to avoid being deceived is to spot-check an article’s sources.

In the new economy, either the reader is in control, or the reader is a fool. No authentic democracy can be a nation of fools. The U.S. is no longer a democracy; the aristocracy has simply taken over. If the people don’t fight back by boycotting liars, they are willing fools and don’t care about their own country.

edit on 06/02/2010 by letscit because: added meaningful content



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 12:10 PM
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originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: Xcathdraby your logic. we should all leave America and give it back to the native Indians. you are so wishy washy and I love how you and your buddies continue to push these threads into uselessness.
btw, ownership is 9/10ths of the law.




Refute the facts and stop attacking the person.

Its getting old.




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