It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ukraine attacks with chemicals, destroys schools and hospitals and kills unarmed citizens (News)

page: 21
79
<< 18  19  20    22  23  24 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 05:45 AM
link   
a reply to: maghun

* - No chemical weapons attack occurred.
* - There are no Neo Nazis in the manner you and others keep repeating.
* - There are 35 members of Ukraine's parliament who are members of the nationalist party.
* - There are 55+ members of the Russian Duma who are members of the nationalist party.
* - Putin invaded Ukraine.
* - Russian forces currently occupy Ukrainian Crimea.
* - Putin has been caught lying more than Nixon did during the Watergate scandal.
* - Putin's ethics would raise eyebrows in the Court of Caligula.
* - Putin's ability to manipulate the Russian people via media would make Joseph Goebbels very proud.


These aren't opinions - they are fact.

Please explain the difference between the "Ukrainian Nazis" and the "Russian Nazi's". Since their are more in the Russian government than the Ukraine government, the Russian position apparently endorses Neo Nazi policies more than their Ukrainian counterparts, at least based on the logic and argument you and others keep trying to use.




posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 07:20 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

This repeatedly surfacing crisis has been chosen as a pretext to bring about a new confrontation between the West and Russia, by all those who have a reason to despise Russia. These people have known full well that destabilization of an important (largest and most populous) neighbor is something that Russia cannot accept easily.

Signs of fascism:



An armed coup, which had no signs of democracy - without regulations, without a vote, purely offset president. That is, by definition, despite the subsequent "type of presidential elections", the formation of what is now in power - the junta that previously were carried out in South America.

The junta murdering political opponents. In Kiev, for the average person is dangerous just to go outside - can so easily be stoned, sticked ... Maybe it is - democracy?

Began to beat and kill on a national basis. In Nazi Germany in 1933 stormtroopers Remus would consider it the highest form of democracy, but that's something I do not think so.

Robbing and looting of militants of a particular party - rob apartments, cars, seize value from their "ideological" opponents. Opponents something ideological, but very tangible value, why not withdraw? Democracy?

About intangible assets. You remember that one of the causes of war in the Southeast was the ban on the use of the Russian language? It's probably very democratic - prohibit language that is spoken by 80% of the entire country.

Harassment and ban of the Communist Party. Remember - where killing communists, which prohibit the Communist Party, there lives fascism.

Exalted Nazi criminals as heroes. These R. Shukhevich and Bandera. One can not even imagine that these can be carriers of democracy, these candid freaks, traitors Russian and Ukrainian peoples.

Destruction of memory - the destruction of monuments of the Red Army, which shed a sea of ​​blood to save Ukraine from the Nazis. Destruction of monuments - it's all vandalism and destruction of monuments to soldiers of the Great Patriotic War - generally akin to sacrilege. This blow to the Russian mentality, by Russian world.

Destruction of superfluous people who are "not at all the people" (the term "Untermensch" - a German invention, but it is also used dill) - purely fascist reception. bombing cottages, private houses, towns and cities.

The use of foreign mercenaries who have extremely clear goal - the destruction and intimidation of the population balances.

It would be naive and absurd to be idealistic about long-term Russian interests, but I agree with the recent words of Henry Kissinger who said that “demonization of Vladimir Putin is not a policy; it is an alibi for the absence of one”. This is exactly what is happening in the United States and Western Europe.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 08:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: maghun

An armed coup, which had no signs of democracy - without regulations, without a vote, purely offset president. That is, by definition, despite the subsequent "type of presidential elections", the formation of what is now in power - the junta that previously were carried out in South America.


We are both in agreement on this one. As soon as Russia withdraws from Crimea and those who seized power there using force are arrested, we can move on by fixing things.




originally posted by: maghun
The junta murdering political opponents.

Alexander Litvinenko would agree with you as well.

As well as Alexei Navalny / Afanasyev, Evgeny Vasilyevich / Akhan, Gizem / Akimenkov, Vladimir Georgievich / Alekhina, Mariya Vladimirovna / Alexandre Paul / Allakhverdov, Andrei / Aulakhsen, Faiza / Ball, Phillip Edward / Barabanov, Andrei Nikolayevich / Beechem, Johnathan David / Belousov, Yaroslav Gennadievich / Berezyuk, Igor Anatolyevich / Bobyshev, Svyatoslav Vasilyevich / Bryan, Kieron John / Cherepovsky, Sergei Olegovich / Colin, Russell Kate / D'Alessandro, Christian / Dolgov, Roman / Dukhanina, Aleksandra Ivanovna / Dziemianczuk, Tomasz / Gaskarov, Aleksei Vladimirovich / Gumarov, Ravil Shafievich / Gushin, Ilya Vladimirovich / etc etc etc...

I can keep listing people who have either been killed or arrested under Putins orders simply because they don't agree with Putin. Not to mention the businesses owned by some of the 70 plus people he's locked up and hose businesses have found themselves in Russian state control / hands.



originally posted by: maghun
Began to beat and kill on a national basis. In Nazi Germany in 1933 stormtroopers Remus would consider it the highest form of democracy, but that's something I do not think so.


The same tactics the USSR / Russia used over the years, starting from when the Soviet Union was allied with Nazi Germany, assisting the Germans in invading Poland and indirectly assisting Nazi Germany in the elimination of Jews, and directly the USSR murdered intellectuals, political opponents, 27k Polish military officers all the while murdering 20 million of their own citizens through various methods.

Secondly Russia has 55+ members of the nationalist party in the Russian government, so they are just 20 people more Neo Nazi / fascist as the Ukraine government has in their midst, 35 members of a nationalist party.


At some point you and the others are going to have to explain how all people in Ukraine government / armed forces are Nazis. Its not enough to just claim you, you actually need to support it. Since you cannot, you play these round robing games and it gets old. If you want to put out propaganda RT is hiring.




originally posted by: maghun
Robbing and looting of militants of a particular party - rob apartments, cars, seize value from their "ideological" opponents. Opponents something ideological, but very tangible value, why not withdraw? Democracy?

Interestingly enough all occurring in regions that are under "Pro Russian" control. Maybe Pro Russians should cease with the 1930's Nazi Policy of re-appropriating wealth from people they perceive as subhuman.

That attitude is also why the Pro Russians are getting their butts handed to them.




originally posted by: maghun
About intangible assets. You remember that one of the causes of war in the Southeast was the ban on the use of the Russian language? It's probably very democratic - prohibit language that is spoken by 80% of the entire country.

Actually you are wrong. No law was ever passed restricting the Russian language. That was a lie putin told in order to justify his invasion of Ukraine. A lie that has been debunked time and time again. Secondly, that's rich coming from Russia, who just passed a law requiring Russian to be the main state language.

This would be another one of those issues where putin needs to be asked which one of his two faces he would like to answer that question with.




originally posted by: maghun
Harassment and ban of the Communist Party. Remember - where killing communists, which prohibit the Communist Party, there lives fascism.

Ironic - Russia has banned the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from engaging in politics in Russia. I can list the other parties that are banned in Russia but it would be easier reading up on Nazi Germany since the same parties are listed for both nations actions.




originally posted by: maghun

Destruction of memory - the destruction of monuments of the Red Army, which shed a sea of ​​blood to save Ukraine from the Nazis. Destruction of monuments - it's all vandalism and destruction of monuments to soldiers of the Great Patriotic War - generally akin to sacrilege. This blow to the Russian mentality, by Russian world.

I see you are unaware of the fact the Soviet Union illegally occupied those countries after WWII. I would rip down the statues as well. Its not Patriotic - Its an occupation.


originally posted by: maghun
Destruction of superfluous people who are "not at all the people" (the term "Untermensch" - a German invention, but it is also used dill) - purely fascist reception. bombing cottages, private houses, towns and cities.


Or "Ethnic Russians"? - Threatening to invade a sovereign because of "Ethnic Russians"? Like Nazi Germany did for "Ethnic Germans"?



originally posted by: maghun
The use of foreign mercenaries who have extremely clear goal - the destruction and intimidation of the population balances.

Like Cossacks and Chechens?


Putin does not need anyone to Villainize him - he has done just fine on his own.

Do you know what the difference is between me and you?

I have no problems taking my own government to task and calling them out for illegal / idiotic behavior. I have no issues disagreeing with what my government does. I hold the same view for Putin.

I just wish you and others could see that Putin is not a saint and is just as bad as his US / European / Asian / African / South American counterparts.

The Office of the President is not a person, its an institution and belongs to the people. Just as it does in Russia.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 09:20 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra


I have found that when people make a post like you did, attacking the person instead of the facts, demonstrates that you are unable to refute the facts.

My comments were not intended as an attack but to let you know what I think of your previous comments and yes there was some emotional content so I apologise for any name calling.


Don't make it personal and post info that counters my posts information.

Please don't tell me what to post.


As for the rest Russia was the one who started the mess with its invasion of Ukraine. There is plenty of room in Russia so p[lease explain why Putin feels the need to take sovereign Ukraine territory?


hmm... back to this again, Russia took Crimea, I am guessing that's what your talking about? This was done in a way where the people in that region did not resist. Agreed? Hardly anyone died. Agreed? Now, there was a very real geopolitical reason for this, you just have to look at a map and some history not to mention Russia being surrounded by NATO.

When it come to Eastern Ukraine where civilians are being killed on a daily basis there is no evidence that Russia is doing anything to support them. Even my Eastern Ukrainian and Russian friends are confused and worried that Russia is doing nothing to intervene. They expected Russia to intervene.
So to answer your question, I believe Putin wants to intervene and I think he should but I think he is being played by the west. He is in my opinion definitely not the reason innocent people are being killed.

The fact of the matter is that bombing and killing innocent people is not going to help unite the East with the West of Ukraine that's for sure.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 09:52 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra


We are both in agreement on this one. As soon as Russia withdraws from Crimea and those who seized power there using force are arrested, we can move on by fixing things.

That's a great idea, then when the majority of the people disagree the Ukrainian government can start shelling and killing civilians? Or do you think the majority of the people of Crimea will praise Poroshenko for saving them from Putin's evil takeover of their land? Crimea is done, its now part of Russia and you need to get over it. If Ukraine wants to save its sovereignty it needs to stop the killing and start dialogue. Killing and blaming Russia will not save the country.


Or "Ethnic Russians"? - Threatening to invade a sovereign because of "Ethnic Russians"? Like Nazi Germany did for "Ethnic Germans"?

Can you please explain invasion? What invasion? I have not seen any invasion. Iraq was invaded, how has Russia invaded Ukraine? There might be some international legal reasons to call it that but when it comes down to it, its when the people of a land have been invaded by another country by force is when I would call it an invasion.


I just wish you and others could see that Putin is not a saint and is just as bad as his US / European / Asian / African / South American counterparts

I can agree with you here, Putin is no saint and there is not a saint that is truly a saint so to speak. What is happening in my opinion is a global war where the US is losing ground on its unipolar power due to the economic and geopolitical changes happening in Russia and China and is looking to weaken these states. Ukraine in my opinion is just a pawn on the chessboard and nobody really cares what happens to these people.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 11:29 AM
link   
I am totally biased and I have said this multiple times but I agree with this video in regards to what is going on today



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 03:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: maghun

* - No chemical weapons attack occurred.
* - There are no Neo Nazis in the manner you and others keep repeating.
* - There are 35 members of Ukraine's parliament who are members of the nationalist party.
* - There are 55+ members of the Russian Duma who are members of the nationalist party.
* - Putin invaded Ukraine.
* - Russian forces currently occupy Ukrainian Crimea.
* - Putin has been caught lying more than Nixon did during the Watergate scandal.
* - Putin's ethics would raise eyebrows in the Court of Caligula.
* - Putin's ability to manipulate the Russian people via media would make Joseph Goebbels very proud.


These aren't opinions - they are fact.



No, they are arrogant lies that only you and a few others keep promoting. It's funny how those promoting these lies are all Americans, yet here alone you see Canadians, Greeks, Russians, Ukrainians, and even other Americans who are not lost on your discourse. It's as if the world believes something completely different from you, but you (and a few others) keep making these false claims in complete disregard of global opinion because it is contrary to the American narrative. The world doesn't care for the American narrative, which has proven itself to be nothing but lies for half of a century. Why would we believe you now?



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 04:48 PM
link   
a reply to: Vovin




Then stop denouncing every source that's posted.


Well then use some that aren't or haven't been caught lying on numerous occasions.




I already complained to staff about your misinformation campaign that you've been carrying out here and they say you're just posting your opinion. Well now I'm posting my opinion. I'm tired of your unproductive crap. Take it elsewhere.



Misinformation campaign...Really?

So anything that doesn't agree with your one sided view on Ukraine is a misinformation campaign...Bravo to you.

Btw could you please show me where at anytime I was posting misinformation?



EDIT: your post above mine clearly outlines your trolling method. You demand sources, then you denounce any sources provided. And your justification? It's apparent all fake Russian propaganda. Which is impossible for you to prove.



Well when you keep posting a source that has been caught on many occasions lying then yes I would like to see something more credible.

So to you asking for sources other than Russian media is trolling...Gotcha.



Your belief that none of these sources is legitimate puts you in the minority, not the majority. Most people here believe in objective reporting with evidence, not media that reports statements prepared by sketchy government officials.



No only a few that keep thinking that Russia has done nothing wrong are the minority, but of course I don't expect you to believe that but it you are.




And I asked you a legitimate question: what do you consider to be a legitimate source? Name three.


You can use whoever you want as long as their source isn't a Russian media source, so go get em and I will bet they won't say the same things that you get from Russian media.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 05:07 PM
link   
a reply to: Ploutonas




you can translate this article, speaks about the matter, that USA legitimizing all war crimes against innocent civilians, etc, etc.. And there is many articles that do that, I will try to find 1 more.


Really your Greek source that seems to be a bit Pro Russian is what you think tells the truth...Okay.



Also since I ve made a message with links, take some fresh news link


Your links seem to show which way they lean when you see headlines like this..


The atrocities of Ukrainian neo-Nazis in which close their eyes Westerners



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 05:10 PM
link   
a reply to: stanislas




I am totally biased and I have said this multiple times but I agree with this video in regards to what is going on today


The problem is it is associated with Rense, and they have some credibility issues.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 05:23 PM
link   
well, its not my fault... Take some alternatives, but you wont like them either.. This is a more government controlled blog.
www.onalert.gr...

And ehre is the same information, from the one u dont like, its more information.... link

In greece we learn everything because we are in the middle (west and east) and we love information in my country, we always searching for more.
edit on 10-7-2014 by Ploutonas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 05:23 PM
link   
a reply to: Vovin




No, they are arrogant lies that only you and a few others keep promoting.


Care to prove those arrogant lies wrong?



It's funny how those promoting these lies are all Americans, yet here alone you see Canadians, Greeks, Russians, Ukrainians, and even other Americans who are not lost on your discourse.


Now as I have asked before can you show verifiable evidence that hasn't come from a Russian source that shows everything us Americans are saying is a lie?

Of course Russia has never lied about Ukraine.



It's as if the world believes something completely different from you, but you (and a few others) keep making these false claims in complete disregard of global opinion because it is contrary to the American narrative. The world doesn't care for the American narrative, which has proven itself to be nothing but lies for half of a century. Why would we believe you now?


What world is that again, because in the real world nobody believes Russia was justified in what they did, but please feel free to post a list of these countries that agree with what Putin did?

And when all is said and done when trouble happens who does the world call...The Good ol' USA, I haven't seen many countries asking Russia when times are tough.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 06:01 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra



* - There are no Neo Nazis in the manner you and others keep repeating.


They look like Nazis, act like Nazis and burn people to death much like Nazis so why should I take you word for them not being Nazis in the "manner you and others keep repeating" ?

Mr Putin seems to have sold them out like I said and its all about pushing oil prices up and that is why we have seen no red on blue action and the nazis are just a tool used to make it all real.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 06:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin




Then stop denouncing every source that's posted.


Well then use some that aren't or haven't been caught lying on numerous occasions.




I already complained to staff about your misinformation campaign that you've been carrying out here and they say you're just posting your opinion. Well now I'm posting my opinion. I'm tired of your unproductive crap. Take it elsewhere.



Misinformation campaign...Really?

So anything that doesn't agree with your one sided view on Ukraine is a misinformation campaign...Bravo to you.

Btw could you please show me where at anytime I was posting misinformation?



EDIT: your post above mine clearly outlines your trolling method. You demand sources, then you denounce any sources provided. And your justification? It's apparent all fake Russian propaganda. Which is impossible for you to prove.



Well when you keep posting a source that has been caught on many occasions lying then yes I would like to see something more credible.

So to you asking for sources other than Russian media is trolling...Gotcha.



Your belief that none of these sources is legitimate puts you in the minority, not the majority. Most people here believe in objective reporting with evidence, not media that reports statements prepared by sketchy government officials.



No only a few that keep thinking that Russia has done nothing wrong are the minority, but of course I don't expect you to believe that but it you are.




And I asked you a legitimate question: what do you consider to be a legitimate source? Name three.


You can use whoever you want as long as their source isn't a Russian media source, so go get em and I will bet they won't say the same things that you get from Russian media.


Here's your entire post in three points:

1) you twist my straight forward logic around. I say you denounce every source posted that you don't agree with, then you claim that I said "non-Russian" sources are not legitimate. I most certainly did not say that.

2) You are whelmed by me stating that you are engaged in misinformation. Denouncing video footage, first hand accounts and any "Russian" source is spreading misinformation, because you are aggressively going after actual sources with actual evidence trying to intimidate any member with a different opinion that you into not posting anything else.

If there's only Russian or rebel sources covering certain issues, and you are claiming that it's all fake propaganda that should be ignored, then you are clearly trying to cover up those issues because they conflict with your agenda.

3) at the end of your post, you state it again: "You can use whoever you want as long as their source isn't a Russian media source". Who the hell are you to tell me what sources I can and cannot use?



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 06:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin




No, they are arrogant lies that only you and a few others keep promoting.


Care to prove those arrogant lies wrong


I'm sorry but I thought these claims would require evidence to support them first before there would ever be any need to prove them wrong. You know what a claim is with evidence to support it? A fantasy.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 06:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: stanislas




I am totally biased and I have said this multiple times but I agree with this video in regards to what is going on today


The problem is it is associated with Rense, and they have some credibility issues.


But Rense is not a Russian source, is it? I thought you said we could use any source that isn't Russian.

Yeah, right here:

"You can use whoever you want as long as their source isn't a Russian media source, so go get em and I will bet they won't say the same things that you get from Russian media."

But you don't agree with the source, and it's not Russian... So again I posit, what sources are legitimate in your little world? Name 3.
edit on 10-7-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 07:04 PM
link   
www.youtube.com...=150

This video shows heavy troop movement towards Donetsk. Roughly 90+ vehicles inlcuding heavy tanks, grads, MRLS and others.

What are separatists fighting for? Kremlin has no intention to intervene. Both Foreign Minister and Defense Ministers have told officially that Russia will not intervene.

Makes no sense to fight an outnumbered and heavily outgunned battle. Worst, civilians might get caught in the middle and infrastructure can get destroyed.

Russia does not want to intervene, and therefore is no fight left on the issue. Rag tag bands of untrained soldiers vrs heavy army does not make sense.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 07:52 PM
link   
a reply to: Vovin

I see you once again attacked the poster while ignoring the post. If you could refute those facts you would have done so by now.

They are fact.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 09:02 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Vovin

I see you once again attacked the poster while ignoring the post. If you could refute those facts you would have done so by now.

They are fact.



And your presumption is totally illogical.

My goal is not to provide sources and facts. I was doing that originally but then a select group of agenda pushers changed the entire dialectics regarding this Ukraine situation into a campaign of attacking sources.

So please explain to me what the point of posting sources is when there a members here who have done nothing but denounce sources and members for being too Russian?

So why are you even trying to pretend otherwise? The staff has allowed this shift in discussion. While you cry wolf, you are, in fact, one of the wolves. So why waste your time pretending like you give a damn about evidence or sources?

It's obvious that you and others have turned this discussion into a campaign to control information that is already public knowledge; also to keep stating dubious claims that nobody actually believes as fact.

Case in point, your entire agenda has always been based on your assertion that Russia invaded Ukraine. Except that it's a fairy tale. Some phoney, doctored reports from sources like CNN reminds me of the warhawks screaming for the invasion of Iraq more than a decade ago. Clinging on to one misinterpreted sentence made by Putin is reminiscent of the anti-Iran warhawks who claimed Ahmadinejad was going to "wiped Israel off the map" with nuclear weapons.

If your narrative, your version of events, were reality, then you wouldn't be clinging on to two little details to justify your entire argument.

Russia never invaded Ukraine.

That's the fact. Unless you can show me Russian tanks and infantry and aircraft demolishing junta forces on their march to Kiev, then I may change my mind. But your revelations of a possible buildup of Russian military inside Russian territory, and of east Ukrainians also being Russian citizens, is not impressive in the least.



posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 09:20 PM
link   
What does a pipeline in Afghanistan have to do with the crisis in Ukraine?

Everything. It reveals the commercial interests that drive US policy. Just as the War in Afghanistan was largely fought to facilitate the transfer of natural gas from Turkmenistan to the Arabian Sea, so too, Washington engineered the bloody coup in Kiev to cut off energy supplies from Russia to Europe to facilitate the US pivot to Asia.

www.counterpunch.org...
his is why policymakers in Washington are reasonably satisfied with the outcome of the war in Afghanistan despite the fact that none of the stated goals were achieved. Afghanistan is not a functioning democracy with a strong central government, drug trafficking has not been eradicated, women haven’t been liberated, and the infrastructure and school systems are worse than they were before the war. By every objective standard the war was a failure. But, of course, the stated goals were just public relations blather anyway. They don’t mean anything. What matters is gas, namely the vast untapped reserves in Turkmenistan that could be extracted by privately-owned US corporations who would use their authority to control the growth of US competitors or would-be rivals like China. That’s what the war was all about. The gas is going to be transported via a pipeline from Turkmenistan, across Afghanistan, Pakistan and India to the Arabian sea, eschewing Russian and Iranian territory. The completion of the so called TAPI pipeline will undermine the development of an Iranian pipeline, thus sabotaging the efforts of a US adversary.

The US is pushing the four countries to grant the lucrative pipeline contract to its energy giants. Two US firms – Chevron and ExxonMobil – are in the race to become consortium leaders, win the project and finance the laying of the pipeline,” a senior government official said while talking to The Express Tribune.

So the pipeline plan is finally moving forward and, as the article notes, “The documents will be given to the two companies only for taking part in the tender.”

Nice, eh? So the State Department applies a little muscle and “Voila”, Chevron and Exxon clinch the deal. How’s that for a free market?

And who do you think is going to protect that 1,000 mile stretch of pipeline through hostile Taliban-controlled Afghanistan?

Why US troops, of course, which is why US military bases are conveniently located up an down the pipeline route. Coincidence?

Not on your life. Operation “Enduring Freedom” is a bigger hoax than the threadbare war on terror.

This is why political leaders in Europe are so worried, because they don’t like the idea of sharing a border with Somalia, which is exactly what Ukraine is going to look like when the US is done with it.

In Ukraine, the US is using a divide and conquer strategy to pit the EU against trading partner Moscow. The State Department and CIA helped to topple Ukraine’s elected President Viktor Yanukovych and install a US stooge in Kiev who was ordered to cut off the flow of Russian gas to the EU and lure Putin into a protracted guerilla war in Ukraine. The bigwigs in Washington figured that, with some provocation, Putin would react the same way he did when Georgia invaded South Ossetia in 2006. But, so far, Putin has resisted the temptation to get involved which is why new puppet president Petro Poroshenko has gone all “Jackie Chan” and stepped up the provocations by pummeling east Ukraine mercilessly. It’s just a way of goading Putin into sending in the tanks.

Here’s a tidbit readers might have missed in the Sofia News Agency’s novinite site:

“Ukraine’s Parliament adopted .. a bill under which up to 49% of the country’s gas pipeline network could be sold to foreign investors. This could pave the way for US or EU companies, which have eyed Ukrainian gas transportation system over the last months.

…Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk was earlier quoted as saying that the bill would allow Kiev to “attract European and American partners to the exploitation and modernization of Ukraine’s gas transportation,” in a situation on Ukraine’s energy market he described as “super-critical”. Critics of the bill have repeatedly pointed the West has long been interest in Ukraine’s pipelines, with some seeing in the Ukrainian revolution a means to get access to the system. (Ukraine allowed to sell up to 49% of gas pipeline system, novinite.com)

Boy, you got to hand it to the Obama throng. They really know how to pick their coup-leaders, don’t they? These puppets have only been in office for a couple months and they’re already giving away the farm.

www.counterpunch.org...
(much more info in the article)

The neocon geniuses apparently believe that if they sabotage Southstream and nail down 49 percent ownership of Ukraine’s pipeline infrastructure, then the vast majority of Russian gas will have to flow through Ukrainian pipelines. They think that this will give them greater control over Moscow. But there’s a glitch to this plan which analyst Jeffrey Mankoff pointed out in an article titled “Can Ukraine Use Its Gas Pipelines to Threaten Russia?”. Here’s what he said:

“The biggest problem with this approach is a cut in gas supplies creates real risks for the European economy… In fact, Kyiv’s efforts to siphon off Russian gas destined to Europe to offset the impact of a Russian cutoff in January 2009 provide a window onto why manipulating gas supplies is a risky strategy for Ukraine. Moscow responded to the siphoning by halting all gas sales through Ukraine for a couple of weeks, leaving much of eastern and southern Europe literally out in the cold. European leaders reacted angrily, blaming both Moscow and Kyiv for the disruption and demanding that they sort out their problems. While the EU response would likely be somewhat more sympathetic to Ukraine today, Kyiv’s very vulnerability and need for outside financial support makes incurring European anger by manipulating gas supplies very risky.” (Can Ukraine Use Its Gas Pipelines to Threaten Russia, two paragraphs)

The funny thing about gas is that, when you stop paying the bills, they turn the heat off. Is that hard to understand?

Europe and Russia are a perfect fit. Europe needs gas to heat its homes and run its machinery. Russia has gas to sell and needs the money to strengthen its economy. It’s a win-win situation. What Europe and Russia don’t need is the United States. In fact, the US is the problem. As long as US meddling persists, there’s going to be social unrest, division, and war. It’s that simple. So the goal should be to undermine Washington’s ability to conduct these destabilizing operations and force US policymakers to mind their own freaking business. That means there should be a concerted effort to abandon the dollar, ditch US Treasuries, jettison the petrodollar system, and force the US to become a responsible citizen that complies with International law.

It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen, mainly because everyone is sick and tired of all the troublemaking.

MIKE WHITNEY lives in Washington state.

www.counterpunch.org...



new topics

top topics



 
79
<< 18  19  20    22  23  24 >>

log in

join