Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

Ok, I can't sleep and have researched more on this. Some very poor reporting by the media. Many articles couldn't even get the friend's name right…..it's not Tyler Byars its TAYLOR Byars.

Here is what WE KNOW…some articles have been more specific others more vague

1)TAYLOR BYARS 27 year old 6 year Arcadia firefighter paramedic and mixed martial artist
inexperienced, new to camping etc.

2) Mike Herdman 36 year old Arcadia firefighter, experienced back country hiker etc. Father of one and married.

3) Herdman was familiar with the exact area they were camping/hiking in. Had hiked it before, new the area well.

4) Herdman supposedly went missing the evening/night of Friday the 13th of June……..ominous in and of itself

5) By the time Herdman disappeared they were half way through their 4 day trip. He wanted to be back by Father's day Sunday June 15th.

6) According to Byars, Herdman ran off after his dog duke LATE that night they had set up camp.
Byars said that when Herdman didn't return he went out looking for him.

Ok next point is VERY important in my opinion:

7) According to Byars, the media etc. Byars looks for Herdman THROUGHOUT the rest of the night and into the next day. Reports have said it took Byars 2 DAYS that's TWO DAYS to hike out of the forest and find his way back. Byars ran into a couple of fisherman and was dehydrated and disheveled. They led him back to his truck and then he drove to the Sheriff's station to report his friend missing.

8) The body of Mike Herdman is found exactly two weeks later on Friday the 27th!!!!!!!!!

Ok……………so those are the facts…….already just typing this out there are some VERY glaring red flags. I'll list a couple of my own……there is a serious lack of information and reporting on this whole case.

Was Byars able to mention ANY specific times during which these events took place? I.e. "Late into the night"? Ok Was it 9:00 PM, midnight, 3:00 in the morning? Wasn't he wearing a watch?

At what time did he quit searching for his friend Mike and decide to go get help? It was supposedly that next day. Ok was it early morning he quit looking? Mid afternoon etc?

So he spent another 24-48 hours hiking out of the same backcountry his friend was just lost in? He didn't see anyone during that next entire day? And then he spends ANOTHER night hiking out? Did he sleep? What was he doing?

Also there is no reason for him to be dehyrdated. The entire area is surrounded by water i.e. Sespe creek. Also if he was so lost how did he manage to find his way? Technically if he was lost he should have followed the easiest route out, THE RIVER i.e. WATER……

So here Taylor Byars comes barreling out of the woods and runs into 2 fisherman who help him get back to his truck. ALl this time Byars is an experienced firefighter AND PARAMEDIC let's not forget…..why in the world if he's so dehydrated and disheveled would he try to drive away into town to the Sheriffs. Did the two fisherman not have a cell phone? Wouldn't they tell him to sit tight while ONE OF THEM goes to get help? I mean they just let some supposedly clinging to life disheveled dehyrdated guy get in his car and drive.

Or did Byars not tell these two fisherman what happened? Because the media accounts say the two fisherman One article specifically states: "The fisherman called investigators after hearing about the missing firefighter on the news and indicated they found a bag left behind by Byars". WHOA! SAY WHAT??????? So these two fisherman didn't know anything about Byars and what he had just been through when they found him? BYARS DIDN"T TELL THEM ANYTHING???? That' is VERY SUSPICIOUS!

There are a lot more questions and holes in this story……………..I'm starting to believe Byars had something to do with this.

originally posted by: WanDash
a reply to: Starling
In more than one post, I highlighted the fact that each report I read said Duke was found near the parking area where the vehicle "had been parked".
I found It strange that two different reports would use that language,...

Yes that is weird terminology, twice used.

But what do you think about there being one car or two cars belonging to the 2 guys?
If there was only one car, (seems more normal), and Byers drove it to seek help, what car did Duke find?

All we've heard is that Byers has been 'out of commission'; did not return to work and didn't participate in the search.
So he wouldn't have parked it back again in the parking lot if he didn't return there after leaving on Sunday...
The dog returned to the 'parked car' (of whom?) way after that.

If they're not reporting the true facts and details, then something is being hidden.

From another article……….

Earlier, some hikers reported hearing sounds coming from a cave in the area, but a search proved fruitless.

This was in an article from the 18th. That's very weird. So did Herman get injured or bitten by a snake and holed up in a cave for a few days. Then as he grew desperate realizing now one was coming decided to try to make it out by himself which is when he fell to his death?

More questions…..ok what kind of "sounds"???????????? Human crying for help? Crying out in pain?

a reply to: Starling

From the articles I've read it sounds like they met up at the trailhead, Byars had his truck parked there. That's what he left in. Did you read my post? None those details even matter……what is the strangest thing is that he even got in his vehicle and drove off after coming into contact with the 2 fisherman. It sounds like they had no idea what was going on…i.e. Byars didn't tell them anything? Again like I said if he on death's doorstep like he said why in the hell would he get in his truck and drive off, moreover why would the fishermen let him if he just told them everything that happened to his friend and he's been lost in the woods for 2 days? HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS!

Here you are fishing and this guy comes stumbling out of the woods or whatever, he tells you his friend has been missing for 2 days aftering running off into the night after his dog. And then the guy says he spent the last 2 days hiking himself because he got lost. ON top of that you are told that this guy and his lost friend are both local firefighters???????? Byars and these fishermen to me is the strangest part of the entire story.

Here is Byars instagram page……

web.stagram.com...

I found this comment in an article pretty interestng….

What are the chances that someone at night in bare feet and shorts would scale a 1,200-foot mountain?”
Did any of these buffoons bother to talk to his friends?? Anyone who knew Mike knows he could DEFINITELY scale a 1,200 foot mountain in bare feet and shorts! Come on!!! I call BS!

Ok so WHY would Mike scale THAT particular cliff at night then even if he could?

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
...Some very poor reporting by the media.

Agreed!

...1)TAYLOR BYARS 27 year old 6 year Arcadia firefighter paramedic and mixed martial artist
inexperienced, new to camping etc.

This is certainly something to consider... (I had wondered about the martial artistry)

...6) According to Byars, Herdman ran off after his dog duke LATE that night they had set up camp.
Byars said that when Herdman didn't return he went out looking for him.

...7) According to Byars, the media etc. Byars looks for Herdman THROUGHOUT the rest of the night and into the next day. Reports have said it took Byars 2 DAYS that's TWO DAYS to hike out of the forest and find his way back. Byars ran into a couple of fisherman and was dehydrated and disheveled. They led him back to his truck and then he drove to the Sheriff's station to report his friend missing.

All of this...I would like clarification on...

Ok……………so……there are some VERY glaring red flags. …

…Was Byars able to mention ANY specific times during which these events took place? I.e. "Late into the night"? Ok Was it 9:00 PM, midnight, 3:00 in the morning? Wasn't he wearing a watch?

According to one or more rehearsals of the news conference...they took off to find/retrieve Duke, together...and at some point decided to split up.
This is at odds with most reports I've read...but, seems to be the Sheriff's understanding, at this time...
Time of day/night is important.
It was mentioned/noted much earlier in the thread that this was not only Friday 13th, but also...a virtual...full moon.

…At what time did he quit searching for his friend Mike and decide to go get help? It was supposedly that next day. Ok was it early morning he quit looking? Mid afternoon etc?

Within the last couple of/few days, the Sheriff said that Byars searched throughout the night, and the entire day, following, then hiked out...
Again - which set of facts is accurate/more accurate or neither remains a crap shoot (for us).

…So he spent another 24-48 hours hiking out of the same backcountry his friend was just lost in? He didn't see anyone during that next entire day? And then he spends ANOTHER night hiking out? Did he sleep? What was he doing?

I don't know 'how' they were 'hiking'… If they were trying to make as much time/ground/distance each day as possible… Or - trying to enjoy themselves…or…what? It seems that they had a destination, and were trying to trek the entire Trail in a given amount of time… So…it is certainly possible that Byars had a good hike to get back…even if he'd known his way around/through that territory.
We don't know (at this time) where he was spotted by the fishermen.
But - if they found the pack of goods he purportedly left behind…I am guessing that he had told them of the situation…since they would have had to traverse the entire distance (presumably - back to the campsite) after leading/taking him to his vehicle…and…that seems a rather extreme measure if they had no story to lead them in said direction.

…Also there is no reason for him to be dehyrdated. The entire area is surrounded by water i.e. Sespe creek. Also if he was so lost how did he manage to find his way? Technically if he was lost he should have followed the easiest route out, THE RIVER i.e. WATER……

…Did the two fisherman not have a cell phone? Wouldn't they tell him to sit tight while ONE OF THEM goes to get help? I mean they just let some supposedly clinging to life disheveled dehyrdated guy get in his car and drive.
Good questions...

…Or did Byars not tell these two fisherman what happened? Because the media accounts say the two fisherman One article specifically states: "The fisherman called investigators after hearing about the missing firefighter on the news and indicated they found a bag left behind by Byars".

Very interesting if this is, indeed, the truth.

…There are a lot more questions and holes in this story……………

It is becoming the new norm...it would seem.

a reply to: Starling
I don't believe I have read any piece that reported that Duke returned to the car...but...to where the car had been parked (initially)
It was a parking area and...others (the article called them 'good samaritans' - but also suggested that they might have been in the area to help in any effort/s to find the missing firefighter - might even have been family or friends...) in the area at the time, somehow corralled the dog.
That is my take on the information that has been published since Duke was recovered.

This was posted by a friend of Mike's who I'm assuming accompanied him on a hike in the Sespe Wilderness area. If what he says is accurate…….why in the hell would Mike take such an inexperienced friend with him?

I don't know what the entire area is like, but the hike I did with Mike involved climbing up and over large boulders, hiking off trail for miles, and even wading through the streams with your gear over your head. So it's nothing like a clearly marked national park trail, and I know plenty of healthy people who could not have done that hike. Its some of the most challenging terrain I've encountered in 20 years of hiking.

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys
Yep... Interesting.
I'm kinda stuck on the dog, at the moment.
Had he taken Duke on these excursions before?
One would think that he had some kind of trust that the dog wouldn't do precisely what it is reported to have done...
So - I'm really having trouble with the dog taking off in such a way that Herdman would leave camp in such a hurry, and with such urgency that he wouldn't 'suit up', first.

If, as the Sheriff said, both Herdman & Byars took off together to retrieve Duke...it was either - "he's been gone way too long" or - he took off in such a way as to ALARM Herdman.

On the other hand... If the friend had anything to do with Herdman's death - it would be extremely risky, with the dog around.

a reply to: WanDash

What's weird is EVERY article I've read before today, i.e in the early stags of the search say that Byars went after Herdrman only after he realized Herdman wasn't returning to camp. I never had it in my mind that they took off together. If so that is even more strange How the hell do you lose your buddy if you guys take off together and one is in bare feet? I mean would Herdman really take off at a sprinters pace in the middle of the night barefoot? Ok so why doesn't Byars try to keep up with him? That just doesn't add up. Did Byars change his story maybe?

The fishermen aspect is still the strangest part of the entire story in my opinion. If Byars told them what happened don't you think somewhere in the story he would have mentioned how he left a backpack of suppliers for Herdman if he were to find it. So why would the fisherman call investigators the next day telling them they found the backpack? Didn''t the fishermen already know why the backpack was out there? By that time Byars had already told the Sheriff's everything and they were searching the forest for Herdman. It seems to be Byars didn't tell them anything? It's very vague. One article states the fisherman helped him rehydrate and then led Byars back to the trail so he could find his way out. THe three of them didn't talk about everything? Doesn't make any sense.

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys
I had read one article, a week or so ago that stated that they took off together, looking for the dog, and that Herdman had headed off into 'thick brush', and that was when they got separated.
Earlier in the thread I had questioned - if they went looking for the dog together - how could they get separated if one was 'shoed' and the other barefooted...unless they 'agreed' to separate...and, the agreed separation is precisely what the Sheriff is now saying took place.

You know, and I know...we're dealing with a minimal story. If law enforcement has seriously interrogated Byars, we are not going to be privy (at this point in time) to whatever details or inconsistencies might have come forth in his answers/story.
They are stating - No Foul Play...and, unless something turns up in the autopsy, I'm guessing we'll never know.
Again - I don't want to point an accusatory finger at anyone... But - I Do Question...the story.

ETA: Forgot about your 'fishermen' angle...
You are correct... But, again...until (or - if) we get some official account of Byars' and the fishermens' stories...we're left in the lurch of what actually happened.

Something I find odd is that two firemen from the same department had that many days off in a row. Also, the sheriff in press conference said they were 12 miles from their vehicle, but the dog found his way back there. The friend didn't have a cell phone? I realize reception could be nil out in the woods but at some point youd think a phone would get a signal. Too many odd things piled up in one mystery.

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

You, my friend, have done some excellent work, there! And I honestly thank you for it. Your posts about the local Bigfoot stuff were awesome, and this post is a nice, succinct summary of what (minimal) facts we have!

There, are indeed, a lot of flags coming up now. I have to side with those who see the resemblance to the 411 books, though and say the actions of Herdman defy logic. At least, as far as I'm concerned. No matter how desperate I was to find my dog, I'd never put myself in harms way to do it. I know my dog, and I know he's smart enough to find his way back.

One point I have to raise with you though...

Also there is no reason for him to be dehyrdated. The entire area is surrounded by water i.e. Sespe creek.

Let's not forgot that when the dog, Duke, was found he was reported to be in a similar state. Exhausted, tired and, pointedly, dehydrated. I would go so far as to say that a dog has even greater access to drinking water than a human, as they will quite happily drink water which we wouldn't even consider bathing in. So the real question is, with all this water around, why was Duke also dehydrated? He'd been roaming for two weeks, undoubtedly by the creek, so why was he dehydrated?

Also your post about the unwholesome denizens of the park...perfect. Like I've said previously, I can entertain the idea of Bigfoot being responsible, but I think it more likely that people are to blame. People who the Park don't want to shine the light on for fear of alienating the paying public. What's a couple hundred people to billions of dollars, eh?

And these fishermen...why have they not been named? We have no info on them, at all. Usually, in a media circus like this, they'd have their names splashed all over the place. "Byars, dehydrated and exhausted, blundered out of the bush and straight into Fisherman A and Fisherman B. B stated, "All of a sudden he was just there! A and I were shocked, to say the least!"
But instead we have nothing... No word from them about Byars condition when he found them, no word on his state of mind, and (what I'm most frustrated about) no record of his "debrief" by authorities.


While we all may disagree on whether or not there is more to this than just a man making poor decisions, I think we can all agree on one thing.
The information in this case is being very, VERY tightly regulated and controlled. There are way too many inconsistencies in each telling. The media, I believe, is simply filling in gaps. Someone knows what is going on, and they're making sure the information we all receive has no way of leading back to what really happened.

originally posted by: JackofBlades
...While we all may disagree on whether or not there is more to this than just a man making poor decisions, I think we can all agree on one thing.
The information in this case is being very, VERY tightly regulated and controlled. There are way too many inconsistencies in each telling. The media, I believe, is simply filling in gaps. Someone knows what is going on, and they're making sure the information we all receive has no way of leading back to what really happened.

I may not be to the point of believing/concluding that we are being deliberately misled...I must, though, count that to be a genuine possibility.

Side note: I was so saddened when I signed-back-on tonight, to see the news.
While it seemed inevitable...I was unrealistically hoping for another resolution to this story.
Deepest sympathy and regards to the family and friends.
RIP - Mike Herdman

I feel so sorry for his family. This is terrible news.

His body must have either been badly decomposed or in a horrible state to need dental records to identify him .

I think a lot of us are waiting for an autopsy report to see what caused his demise.
My question is, when did he die exactly?
Did he climb up that cliff, fall, and die right after he got lost, or was he walking around for a couple of days before he decided to climb up the cliff?
I think the autopsy report should be able to estimate his time of death too.



There are also so many questions left, too many things unclear.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

You're making some good posts, no doubt. I just wanted to
reinforce my stance here from the beginning. I sighted this
early on as fitting the 411 criteria and that's why I decided it
was thread worhty to this venue. So i hope you can see where
I'm coming from.

What is this "411 criteria"? All throughout this thread it's clear to me that YOU and some others *want* this to be some mysterious, paranormal event. You're already set in your belief because you keep rejecting normal theories to make this an alleged mysterious "411 disappearance". This is how I see it.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

if you took the time to read the Missing 411 material, even the little bit that is posted to the web you would get the connection. Also if you read the thread posts you would see that most of us never claimed anything about being paranormal and the "normal" theories are being rejected because they don't make any sense with the information that was given.

a reply to: JackofBlades

Yeah you make an interesting observation about the dog. How many days can a dog live vs. a human without drinking? I mean they say the dog was "dehydrated" but how do they really know? The only way to really know if someone is truly medically dehydrated is to run lab work.

I think the area of the Sespe Wilderness has some very interesting history if you want to go the 411 route. The Chumash Indians for starters…..then all the mining, oil drilling, etc. during the 1800s. Seems like the area was very rich in natural resources. What was interesting to me is this place used to be filled with grizzly bears. The last grizzly bear in CA was killed in the early 1900s. Who's to say grizzlies haven't somehow made it back to the park? Not saying one could have been responsible for Herdman's death but this place is pretty damn wild. Evidently there are some areas that are only accessible by roping down into canyons. Apart from grizzlies the place is crawling with mountain lions, other bears, and coyotes.

And a great point was brought up. Just how badly decomposed was his body? And if so was it from the fall or from animals? If the area was very rough terrain how could animals get to it?

I don't know, it's hard not to become obsessed with this story now. I just don't get a good feeling about the friend. As hard as it would be to think about the family has got to be thinking the same thing. Now we have to wait weeks for the autopsy report.

Here is another interesting tidbit about the area where they were searching for Herdman…..I'd like to know why the Sheriff is so quick to point out there is no foul play. They always say that at the beginning.

According to the Ventura County Star, authorities spotted an illegal marijuana operation while searching for Herdman. A Ventura County Sheriff’s helicopter had been flying search teams into remote areas when they spotted the cultivation site. It appears to be northwest of where Herdman was last seen. At this time, it is unsure how large the operation is.