Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

Hi NoRules:

Once you read Paulides' books, I bet you change your mind...it did mine. I was quite skeptical too, but his writing style is very "Just the facts" very Joe Fridayesque...

I know the books are somewhat pricey, but by now they must be available at used bookstores.

I have no problem with someone making money. Paulides did the research. Make money while the sun shines all day long if your aim is true.

I don't pretend to know what is out there doing this, but when something hits you in the tummy like Paulides' research does, it is 'something", and it doesn't seem like it is natural.

This guy was a firefighter. He had seen worse then wilderness and dealt with it. So, where the freak did he go?

Maybe this is the one that will get people asking...

originally posted by: Missmissie173
...This guy was a firefighter. ...

Sorry to have clipped your comment to such a small quote...but, this is a piece of the story that's kind of puzzling for me, as well (as other pieces detailed elsewhere).

One of the common skills of Firemen is - the ability to suit-up in a flash.
If he took off looking for Duke without 'suiting up' ...or, without returning within a minute or two to suit up...you would almost have to guess that whatever happened to him, happened within a couple/few minutes of leaving the campsite (if, indeed, he left the campsite to find Duke).

Or - that's the way I'm seeing it at this time.

a reply to: WanDash

So agree! Plus, did anyone ever establish if this was night or day? I never could get that straight from the reporting.

I am not the world's most experienced camper by a long shot, but from the pictures that several members have supplied of the area, it reminds me of part the Texas Hill Country, which is by no means the most rugged of environments, and is actually quite beautiful...the land seems open and more sage brush then dense forest. And, yeah, snakes galore, but that comes with the Southern CA territory, just as it does here in Texas.

It is not like the Pacific Northwest, with forest that go on for ever, and going 2 feet and not being able to see your hand in front of your face. Sorry, I am not trying to be insensitive, but how can you not find a hurt person or (and God I hope not) but a body in fairly open brush land?

This just has "not right" write large all over it.

originally posted by: Missmissie173
...did anyone ever establish if this was night or day? I never could get that straight from the reporting.

I dont' know that we will get that answer before some kind of 'official report'.
It is EXTREMELY Frustrating. So much rationale can be flip-flopped on that one detail, alone.

...I am not the world's most experienced camper by a long shot, but from the pictures that several members have supplied of the area, it reminds me of part the Texas Hill Country, which is by no means the most rugged of environments, and is actually quite beautiful...the land seems open and more sage brush then dense forest. And, yeah, snakes galore, but that comes with the Southern CA territory, just as it does here in Texas.

Many weeks of my life were spent in the hill country near Kerrville and Rock Springs, Texas... And - while I know, and am fully aware that diamond-back rattlers are purportedly - everywhere - I have NEVER encountered one.

...This just has "not right" write large all over it.

It seems that way to me, too!

a reply to: graceunderpressure

great post grace. i would just like to add that the cases that david writes about are only a percentage of the overall number of missing persons from our national parks. the books are called 411 because he's literally investigated 411 cases that fit his profile. from my understanding there are certainly more disappearances than that since the 1800's that have happened in our national parks. but, he only investigates those that follow a pretty specific trend.

but, again, as others and myself have mentioned it's hard to know exactly how many people have gone missing from our national parks because the department doesn't keep any record. i think when he asked how much it would cost for the yosemite park to give him a total list of everyone whose gone missing they quoted him some outrageous price like $30,000 or something. Just to compile a list of information they should already have. and that's just for one park!

apparently there was also a loophole that David tried to make use of which stated that if you were an author who had published books located in state libraries you could avoid paying the fee for getting information like that from the parks department. but, when he told them he was a published author and what libraries had his books, they then told him that the number of libraries that contained his books wasn't high enough to warrant an exclusion for paying the fee for the complete list of missing persons.

and if you're unable to find his books in europe, the next best thing in the meantime would be to listen to some of his interviews on youtube.



Part 1



Part 2



Part 3

a reply to: WanDash

update....still missing.......petition started to reinstate the full search

www.sgvtribune.com...

comments that people have made...Giulliana Amico of Glendale wrote, “He risked his life everyday for us, saved how many people, homes, and pets, and whats the thanks he gets in return?”

Carolin Poni of San Bernardino also wrote, “He is a hero who has risked his life to save others, we need to return the favor.”


they have 1 helicopter looking for him.......his several fiefighters from his station went to look for him monday, no cell phone reception...they have a special satelite phone to keep in touch with the station

firefighers rotate on their off duty time to look

Taylor Byars, who was hiking with Herdman when he disappeared, had not returned to work and would not be joining in the search.

The department does not know when Byars will return to work.

www.sgvtribune.com...

^ above clip says bayers searched for 24 hours, then it took a day to hike out.

Though devastated by his missing friend, Byars has been assisting in the search throughout the week and does not plan leave until Herdman is found, Pryor said.

Isn't it reasonable to expect higher numbers of missing people in National Parks versus other areas?

1. National Parks are highly isolated areas.
2. National Parks have large amount of protected predator type animals.
3. You go into an isolated area by yourself or get left behind and something happens, you have a good chance of not getting medical assistance nor the resources you need to survive.
4. There is a higher than normal possibilities of undesirable humans to hide in such highly isolated areas to prey on their victims.

I guess I'm not surprised of the high numbers in such isolated areas nor I'm I surprised the National parks wouldn't want to disclose such information for fear of regulation$ and economic impacts.

a reply to: research100

callme forgot to mention that when david asked how much it would cost to get the missing list from all the national parks in all the states in the USA, they told him $1,000,000 !!!!!!!

sometimes they don't respond at all ....after 4 requests for a particular case, they sent him records, it was so redacted (black out parts that would be national security risk) that pretty much the whole page(s) was blacked out.

a reply to: research100

hearing that # really pushes my buttons. Like these aren't active murder investigations. They are missing persons. Makes you wonder what the hell the national security bullcrap is about.

and interupt42

all of those things you've listed have been methodically ruled out. you really have to listen to one of the interview or see one of the books to really have it sink in. the cases he discusses are not normal disappearances as you've described. the circumstances are truly abnormal.

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed
I did not read any of Paulide's books simply because they are not available in Europe.

Don't have much time as heading out for work. Just wanted to say that I'm in the UK and I've picked up the first three and just placed my order for the fourth. I got them all from Amazon for around £15 each.

all of those things you've listed have been methodically ruled out.

That wouldn't make any sense to say those things can't be part of it.

a reply to: roadgravel

i can't say anything but guess at whats going on with the missing firefighter. he just seems fit some of the trends associated with other cases david paulide's has investigated.

but, all of the four hundred and eleven missing person cases david discusses have nothing to do with animal attacks, murders or exposure/death from injury or someone just getting lost/running away. like i said, those have all been ruled out and it's readily apparent after reading all of the case files.

a reply to: CallmeRaskolnikov

If they are unsolved, how do they know what or wasn't the cause. That' would just be opinion or best guess.

It's not more likely a person could disappear for whatever reason in a huge forest then their own front yard?

a reply to: roadgravel

because of circumstances, evidence and trends. again you need to actually listen to an interview with david, look at his site or read one of his books. i can't get across 800 pages of information to you over a couple of ATS posts.

and it probably is more likely they would disappear from a national forest. but again, these aren't normal disappearances.

I don't totally disagree with you, and weird stuff also would be more likely there. But you saw my point.

>>
sometimes they don't respond at all ....after 4 requests for a particular case, they sent him records, it was so redacted (black out parts that would be national security risk) that pretty much the whole page(s) was blacked out.
>>

Does Paulides provide proof for this? Where are those documents?

Why would the NPS a) charge insane amounts of money to get this list and b) redact those documents?

I believe it when I see it. It's not the effing NSA, it's National Parks in the US for god's sake.

Edit: Again..please provide proof, I am very interested in this since I didn't read those books. "National Security Risk"? Why? PROOF PLEASE.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed


why don't you go to the source and ask? here is david paulides website contact page www.canammissing.com...

If he is lying then why haven't the parks called him on it, why hasn't he been sued.......

anyway this thread is about a missing firefighter and we are looking at different possibilities as to what happened to the guy...and a possibility that this case fits the criteria of cases that david pilades looks into....

Just a thought.

Having a close friend that has been a fireman for over 20 years, I asked his opinion on this situation.

According to him, life in the department is like a very small town. Everybody knows everything about everybody.

These guys go hours and hours, if not days, without incident...they have a lot of down time and they talk about their lives nonstop. It is like the military, if they don't have respect for a member, they let it be known.

According to the reports from our missing firefighter's buddies, he was well respected and a good guy. As was his camping buddy.

If there was something known about him that was a problem (marriage, money, sexual preference, mental issues, etc...) his brothers at the department most probably would have picked up on it. These guys literally live in each other's hip pockets 24/7.

This whole deal bothers me so. I am praying for him and his family. How can his wife cope. Your young, gorgeous, brave husband goes out to camp for some downtime and phffft gone in an instance. I hope she has some funds to get through this.

a reply to: research100


I know I don't need to say this. But I am only disposed by
the out come of the search efforts. And can only imagine
what this has done to Mike Herdmans loved ones. For the
rest of their lives.

Very very sad deal all the way around.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

You want proof of it?

Pretty simple way to go about getting it. Just either read the books or ask those of us who have to list the files he "claims" he was prevented from obtaining, and file a FOIA yourself. Freedom of information is just that. If he was telling the truth, you'll have ridiculous difficulty in obtaining, if not, you can disprove him and add the information he says he was denied.

It's all very well demanding proof, but if you really want it, you'd dig for it.

And I agree that the Parks themselves are obviously a location where it's more likely someone would be able to disappear than, say a city. But they're also a place where, should they so wish, a government agency would be able to easily and secretively remove individuals with no witnesses. Or an obscure intelligent hominid could reside and be feeding on humans in secret. Or a population of inbred wild people have taken residence and are cannibalising the visitors.
I think a lot of you are misinterpreting Paulides' intentions with the books. He isn't telling us Bigfoot is out there and eating our kids, nor is he saying transdimensional portals are opening non-stop and sucking people in. The only agenda he's pushing is the one that identifies the complete and total lack of interest from the Park administration in simply recording the disappearances. Let alone trying to solve them. As he says, the run of the mill Park staff you meet, the rangers etc, are good people. But the bureaucracy of the parks, the upper echelons (so to speak) who see the big picture, are doing nothing to investigate or solve these cases. Instead, missing people are "presumed dead" after an elapsed amount of time and, PRESTO!!! They're off the missing person list, and onto the dead list. Therefore, they're no longer a missing person, but a corpse that died of exposure/exhaustion/other nonsense.

Writing this, one case comes to mind which really disturbed and upset me. I can't recall the location off the top of my head, but the basics are as follows:
Little boy goes missing with his puppy. Official search begins in hours.
Parents suspect foul play, as they live in a pretty remote area on a farm. No one had driven there or been seen there.
Sometime later, searchers find the puppy in a sealed well. Police say the puppy must have fallen in. To the sealed well. Or pulled the metal cover over himself afterwards.
Some days later the boy's body is found resting against a tree, in an area that had not only been searched previously, but searchers would have had to pass daily to keep spreading outwards.
Coroner states the boy must have died within a day or two of going missing (which doesn't explain why all the searchers "missed" his corpse perched right beside them).
Coroner also states the boy died of natural causes, probably exposure, and there were no signs of violence on the body.
Coroner doesn't address the fact the boys face had been "smashed in." Doesn't say whether it happened pre or post mortem, what could have caused it, etc.

This isn't even the most disturbing or confusing case. I'd seriously recommend the books to anyone who has doubts about the content. I borrowed one book to somebody at work, and all three were borrowed out a week later and only returned to me last week. Everyone who read them was disturbed and remarked on how peculiar all the cases are.

Back on topic:
Something I've discovered regarding this case which I think is quite pertinent.

This was in fact Byars first camping trip. This leads me to believe that claim he became lost is accurate and true. He is not an experienced outdoorsman. At all. He's a complete and total novice. This also leads me to believe the chances of him murdering and hiding the body of his only real "lifeline" are incredibly slim.