Are we witnessing the beginning of ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?

a reply to: cosmonova

Man, just ignore this troll. He acts stupid but he knows what he is doing.

a reply to: Vovin

He said there were Russians there. He did not send Russian forces there. Is that so hard to understand?

So your saying that he didn't say he deployed troops to Crimea?

He never once said he deployed them in Crimea where he had troops, so do you know the difference between deployed to and deployed in?

And who cares about the Tartars? Do you care about the opinions of aboriginals where you live? If you did you wouldn't be living there.

The Russians better be as they are in fact ethnically cleansing them, and that is a big no no.

And what do the aboriginals have to do with the discussion as they aren't being invaded by another country and they aren't being ethnically cleansed.

a reply to: Vovin

Man, just ignore this troll. He acts stupid but he knows what he is doing.

So he's a troll because he doesn't have the same one sided view of the events in Ukraine as you do... how interesting.

I hate to interfere in this circlejirk here...but any of you guys pushing the State Dept line on Ukraine have mothers, sisters, wives or children?! Just wondering...
Because if you do, I sure hope you value their lives far more than you value the lives of the pro-Russian Ukrainians...
It's quite obvious to anyone impartial that the government forces are shelling entire cities, and not only rebel positions.
It's as if they don't care about their citizens because they're ethnically Russian. I've followed this conflict on and off since the beginning, and the pro-Ukrainian side has committed atrocities that the pro-Russian side obviously hasn't. We've all seen the videos of burning people, and of killed women and children caused by the pro-Ukrainian side. Now, since it's a civil war, I'm sure there are, or will be pro-Russians doing the same. So far, I've seen none of it. It's only the Government side doing it. Supported by the US and the EU. No wonder one can rarely see news about the civilians dying in mainstream media. Were it done by the pro-Russians - it'd be front page material. As it's the pro-Government side killing the pro-Russian civilians, you hear nothing about it. Or it's buried deep inside the story and reported ambiguously so that the reader can't tell where to place the blame.

And I say to all of you who agree with it - YOU ARE SUPPORTING IT.
No question about it.
Now read my first line again, and tell me if you'd support it if it was your sister, wife or child?

There, my opinion stated.
Now you can continue with the circlejirk and argue what happened fifty years ago, or about semantics what exactly constitutes "ethnic cleansing" and what doesn't.../moral bankruptcy/

Peace!
Over and out

originally posted by: IamTheManWithThePlan
I hate to interfere in this circlejirk here...but any of you guys pushing the State Dept line on Ukraine have mothers, sisters, wives or children?! Just wondering...
Because if you do, I sure hope you value their lives far more than you value the lives of the pro-Russian Ukrainians...
It's quite obvious to anyone impartial that the government forces are shelling entire cities, and not only rebel positions.
It's as if they don't care about their citizens because they're ethnically Russian. I've followed this conflict on and off since the beginning, and the pro-Ukrainian side has committed atrocities that the pro-Russian side obviously hasn't. We've all seen the videos of burning people, and of killed women and children caused by the pro-Ukrainian side. Now, since it's a civil war, I'm sure there are, or will be pro-Russians doing the same. So far, I've seen none of it. It's only the Government side doing it. Supported by the US and the EU. No wonder one can rarely see news about the civilians dying in mainstream media. Were it done by the pro-Russians - it'd be front page material. As it's the pro-Government side killing the pro-Russian civilians, you hear nothing about it. Or it's buried deep inside the story and reported ambiguously so that the reader can't tell where to place the blame.

And I say to all of you who agree with it - YOU ARE SUPPORTING IT.
No question about it.
Now read my first line again, and tell me if you'd support it if it was your sister, wife or child?

There, my opinion stated.
Now you can continue with the circlejirk and argue what happened fifty years ago, or about semantics what exactly constitutes "ethnic cleansing" and what doesn't.../moral bankruptcy/

Peace!
Over and out

Again promoting a phalacy you do realize there are ukrainians living there as well and they are a minority group. But more to the point if Ukraine wanted to destroy the city they could within a day at most. They have bombing capabilities and one batallion using rockets could level it leaving it a waste land. Obviously they have no intention of destroying the city. As far as check points thats for searching cars its not stopping Ukraine's military at all there has been plenty of reports of fighting in slovyansk in fact theres been huge battles so there is indeed urban fighting look at even videos posted here. Youll notice entire buildings arent targeted usually just an apartment with others recievimg collateral damage.

Now im still waiting for that proof that ukraine is targetting ethnic russians also like to know how you tell do they dress diffrent from ukrainians living there?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: IamTheManWithThePlan
I hate to interfere in this circlejirk here...

Again promoting a phalacy you do realize there are ukrainians living there as well and they are a minority group. But more to the point if Ukraine wanted to destroy the city they could within a day at most. They have bombing capabilities and one batallion using rockets could level it leaving it a waste land. Obviously they have no intention of destroying the city. As far as check points thats for searching cars its not stopping Ukraine's military at all there has been plenty of reports of fighting in slovyansk in fact theres been huge battles so there is indeed urban fighting look at even videos posted here. Youll notice entire buildings arent targeted usually just an apartment with others recievimg collateral damage.

Now im still waiting for that proof that ukraine is targetting ethnic russians also like to know how you tell do they dress diffrent from ukrainians living there?

Granted, might be just that they lack precision weapons. Still civilians are dying, and buildings ARE being hit.
It might also be the fear that if they do destroy the city, Russian tanks will start to roll across the border.
Or they might lose some of their friends in the west. There are a number of reasons why they might or might not do that.

As for proof that they're targeting ethnic Russians, I thought it was pretty clear from the vids we've seen where they've burnt people alive, and executed the ones that tried to escape the fire. And the vids where they shoot civilians who were obviously unarmed.

As for how they can tell between those who are pro-Russian...didn't they wear that ribbon (the pro-Russians)?

Nice job trying to whitewash their crimes though.
Your parents must be proud of the son they've raised. Some good values you have.

And now I AM STILL waiting for you to tell me how would you feel if it was your family that "accidentally" got killed.
Let us know. Thanks.

Artyom, district in Slavyansk, after heavy shelling by Kiev forces.
Residential building in ruins. Cleansing by Kiev continues.

Stephen F Cohen is an American scholar of Russian studies,
this is an interesting interview about current events in Ukraine.

'Darkness Ahead'

more from Stephen F Cohen on Ukraine and atrocities by Kiev encouraged by US Government

For weeks, the US-backed regime in Kiev has been committing atrocities against its own citizens in southeastern Ukraine, regions heavily populated by Russian-speaking Ukrainians and ethnic Russians. While victimizing a growing number of innocent people, including children, and degrading America's reputation, these military assaults on cities, captured on video, are generating pressure in Russia on President Vladimir Putin to "save our compatriots."

The reaction of the Obama administration—as well as the new cold-war hawks in Congress and in the establishment media—has been twofold: silence interrupted only by occasional statements excusing and thus encouraging more atrocities by Kiev. Very few Americans (notably, the independent scholar Gordon Hahn) have protested this shameful complicity. We may honorably disagree about the causes and resolution of the Ukrainian crisis, the worst US-Russian confrontation in decades, but not about deeds that are rising to the level of war crimes, if they have not already done so.

m.thenation.com...

a reply to: cosmonova
Must be like deja vu all over again for people I suppose. I said it before and I will say it again, when the elephants fight its the grass that suffers. Its rinse and repeat, and the salt of the earth, the people, are really not bright enough to even know what is going on, but so stupid that they will believe the very people killing and bombing there children, in fact some of them must be turning into salt right about now decaying into the ground like there ancestors have done for the profits of others and because they have tendency to put people who want to control them in power. Basically its nothing new, and nothing that will not in one form or another be vised sooner or latter upon everybody else and every other nation on this planet.

But hey, what names do we use now? Lets see we have insurgents, separatists, terrorists, freedom fighters, we now even have apostates in the middle east. So really the only question in this fiasco is who is the red team, and who is the blue team? What goes around, comes around.

a reply to: cosmonova

A call which will be received by empty ears, in one ear out the other. And since when has Obama received a Nobel Piece prize? I suppose they must give those out like hotcakes, maybe he and the others got it from the cereal box. Just a fyi Obama or any American president does not have any real power, the majority are chosen and put in to place because they have this uncanny ability to keep people distracted and entertained.

The people of Ukraine should have chosen there friends very closely, and they should have kept there enemies even closer, now it seems there insurgents in there very own lands which at some point in time they took from others, but hey its the same all over the place, in the middle east, in asia, even in the good ol US of A. But hey they to at one time have been in the other shoe playing this very game on another peoples. And so it will be for whoever comes out on top in this fiasco and rewrites the histories. And lol dude and why are you arguing with trolls and human sockpupets? Beware they have the power of giving themself little stars, not to many, but just enough to be believable. Funny now how a simple thing as a little green star can have so much effect on peoples minds.

Rinse and repeat, seems to work every time. I cant say all of you, no matter what group, or what color you support now, in fact all of humanity does deserve what it gets time and time again. History is all 100% made of a little thing I like to call bull#, and everybody has there version of bull# which they argue about and even kill over, you have yours, and the ones your arguing with have theirs, and both believe there version true, and both are bull#. In this game even the winners eventually end up losers.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: cosmonova

A call which will be received by empty ears, in one ear out the other. And since when has Obama received a Nobel Piece prize? I suppose they must give those out like hotcakes, maybe he and the others got it from the cereal box. Just a fyi Obama or any American president does not have any real power, the majority are chosen and put in to place because they have this uncanny ability to keep people distracted and entertained.

The people of Ukraine should have chosen there friends very closely, and they should have kept there enemies even closer, now it seems there insurgents in there very own lands which at some point in time they took from others, but hey its the same all over the place, in the middle east, in asia, even in the good ol US of A. But hey they to at one time have been in the other shoe playing this very game on another peoples. And so it will be for whoever comes out on top in this fiasco and rewrites the histories. And lol dude and why are you arguing with trolls and human sockpupets? Beware they have the power of giving themself little stars, not to many, but just enough to be believable. Funny now how a simple thing as a little green star can have so much effect on peoples minds.

Rinse and repeat, seems to work every time. I cant say all of you, no matter what group, or what color you support now, in fact all of humanity does deserve what it gets time and time again. History is all 100% made of a little thing I like to call bull#, and everybody has there version of bull# which they argue about and even kill over, you have yours, and the ones your arguing with have theirs, and both believe there version true, and both are bull#. In this game even the winners eventually end up losers.

I agree Ukraines caught in a tug of war between europe and Russia in the end both sides will lose. I think the EU understands this however Putin still believes he can win the end game of this would have been over already. Hes so focussed on the US not realizing Obama isnt in control and is a paper tiger. Hed never ever send troops anywhere he was a community organizer meaning he doesnt like the military.To some extent his weakness is what caused Putin to act as he did but thanagainanidiot like Mccain would have just caused world war 3. So seems like there is no such thing as diplomacy any more only people who will do whatever they can to get power and retain it. As you say rinse wash repeat.

Karachun, the place where all destruction of Slavyansk come from.
2 months after the beginning of military operations and still there, no advancement at all.
Just shelling and more shelling of Slavyansk.
Urban warfare I guess.

originally posted by: cosmonova
Karachun, the place where all destruction of Slavyansk come from.
2 months after the beginning of military operations and still there, no advancement at all.
Just shelling and more shelling of Slavyansk.
Urban warfare I guess.

Yes thats urban combat there using artillery with spotters calling in fire on enemy positions. Spotters are the ones with binoculars using night vision they call in fire support for troops on the ground happens all the time in wars.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: cosmonova
Karachun, the place where all destruction of Slavyansk come from.
2 months after the beginning of military operations and still there, no advancement at all.
Just shelling and more shelling of Slavyansk.
Urban warfare I guess.

Yes thats urban combat there using artillery with spotters calling in fire on enemy positions. Spotters are the ones with binoculars using night vision they call in fire support for troops on the ground happens all the time in wars.

When was the last time a spotter working for your government called in artillery to kill people inside your country?

a reply to: Vovin

Nevermind.
He does seem like someone with a conscience.
He just got caught up in this lie that mass media is feeding all of us. And who can blame him? We're basically under attack 24/7. Hope he "gets it". This world needs more good people, not less.

ALTHOUGH, HAVING SAID THAT - I DO AGREE WITH YOU FULLY.
The Ukrainians are killing their own citizens. That's a fact. And western media is either not reporting it, or downplaying it, which makes me mad as hell.

(@ dragonridr, I really think /hope/ you're a good man)

originally posted by: IamTheManWithThePlan
a reply to: Vovin

Nevermind.
He does seem like someone with a conscience.
He just got caught up in this lie that mass media is feeding all of us. And who can blame him? We're basically under attack 24/7. Hope he "gets it". This world needs more good people, not less.

ALTHOUGH, HAVING SAID THAT - I DO AGREE WITH YOU FULLY.
The Ukrainians are killing their own citizens. That's a fact. And western media is either not reporting it, or downplaying it, which makes me mad as hell.

(@ dragonridr, I really think /hope/ you're a good man)

A great point that I just saw posted by rebel social media:

How many Ukrainians has Yanukovich killed?

How many has the new western-backed Kiev regime killed?

Every goddamn time the USA sticks its tentacles into another country's business to institute "regime change", the new western-backed regime is birthed in the bloodshed of its people. And sad excuses of apologists always try to justify it because they have never been on the receiving end of American foreign policy. They have no sympathy for the dead. They see them as statistics, as "collateral damage".

I only recently just realized the twisted meaning of the term "collateral damage" that was created by American politicians. It means regime change is actually an investment, and the death of some innocent people lowers the value of the investment. That's why the USA doesn't mind handing over its "bought" colonies to other groups like ISIL if the collateral was too high (like Iraq).

It's a sick, twisted world that these bastards have left to my generation.

destruction of Stanytsia, outskirt of Lugansk,
Airstrike of residential areas with many civilians killed.
Nazi forces showing their real faces.
Anti Civilian Operations continue.
Graphic videos.

originally posted by: cosmonova
destruction of Stanytsia, outskirt of Lugansk,
Airstrike of residential areas with many civilians killed.
Nazi forces showing their real faces.
Anti Civilian Operations continue.
Graphic videos.

This is video from july 2nd and was showing the aftermath of an attack by separatists notice the policeman this area is still controlled by ukraine. The damage was caused when militants as Ukraines govt reported attacked. Remember this area is under control by Ukraine military and they thought they had this area secured from the separatists my theory is they crossed from Russia and didnt come from luhansk since the military had that secured.In combat dont think the other side isnt killing people to the separatists are causing casualties as well.

en.interfax.com.ua...
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