It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Are we witnessing the beginning of ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?

page: 7
13
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 25 2014 @ 06:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Vovin
Maybe you should give pointers on how the UN is still legitimately working in the name of universal justice?


Er, no. Why don't you start a thread on it and I'll be happy to participate, but if you can provide evidence that there is ethnic cleansing going on in Eastern Ukraine, as per OP then do so. I have asked repeatedly.

Cheers




And why should I do that? Put up or shut up. I already told you that I couldn't care less what the UN says. And guess what? Neither do nationstates. Where the hell is the UN in cracking down on the war criminals from the west, like those who invaded several countries in the Middle East killing over a million in the process? Oh yeah the UN is a toothless tool for boring bourgeois politics. Nobody cares about the UN or it's BS statements unless it serves their agenda. This is why I stopped caring about them years ago.




posted on Jun, 25 2014 @ 10:47 PM
link   
Great article about first hand experience from journalist who lives in Ukraine

'Ukraine-Notes from Southeast' by George Eliason



I want to thank everyone trying to help and whose heartfelt wish is to save the lives of Donbass from the reality of ethnic cleansing. That is all this has ever been about-- not language, not ethnicity, and not politics. In western Ukraine people are protesting and getting the same treatment. From the build-up of Maidan until today it has become one hell of a ride for everyone here. Pray no one ever hands you a ticket to it.

For weeks the sounds of shelling fill our days and nights and shake our house. The glare of sniper scopes in the distance are visible because they are pointed in our direction, and the inflow of Pravy Sektor, Kolomoisky's mercenaries, National Guard, and regular army has been dramatic.

Armored personnel carriers, tanks, large machine guns, and automatic weapons are now a constant feature on our streets. Each group has a different mandate, a different command structure and focus.

When the regular army enters the shops in town they are respectful to everyone. In light of what's going on, one of the shopkeepers asked an officer if they were here to kill us? The officer answered "Of course not!"

That was 2 days ago. The same day a local farmer from our town was harvesting grain on his field and troops practiced sniper shots on his tractor. Although he is uninjured, his grain will now go to waste. There will be less flour available to local bakeries.

When the Kolomoisky mercenaries go into the shops it's like a siege. They come twenty at a time circling the shop with their weapons pointing at anyone walking by. They do not receive government supplies so they clean out the stores, leaving little for residents. Transportation is at a standstill with the threat of snipers, and buses are stopped. People no longer have even moderate access to necessities, never mind luxury items.




Reasons why the Government in Kiev has no Credibility

They are using cluster bombs, missiles, rockets, and artillery, targeting hospitals, orphanages, schools, apartments, housing, water supplies etc.
Early on they cut off the shipment of medicines and to a degree food. People needing insulin or heart medication can no longer get them.

Ethnic cleansing of towns and villages that have no militias. In the towns of "Snowy" and "Friendly", houses were marked according to who supported them and who didn't. Pravy Sektor lined up men 16 to 60 in the street and shot them in cold blood. The two Russian reporters that were targeted and killed were with the survivors trying to leave the village of Friendly.

The use of mercenaries has been the hardest to deal with. The local red cross complains that the only thing they fire at is anything marked with a cross. Ambulances, medical drug transports and humanitarian goods have to be brought in secretly. This alone is a war crime, never mind the use of mercenaries to target and kill civilians, which is happening. Mercenary trainers also target orphanages instead of militia checkpoints. At first we thought that the Ukrainian army was just incompetent with howitzers and rockets. After a few months it was clear that instead of military targets, civilian targets over a kilometer away were being struck continually.



the rest of the article

www.opednews.com...



posted on Jun, 25 2014 @ 11:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: cosmonova

Great article about first hand experience from journalist who lives in Ukraine

'Ukraine-Notes from Southeast' by George Eliason



I want to thank everyone trying to help and whose heartfelt wish is to save the lives of Donbass from the reality of ethnic cleansing. That is all this has ever been about-- not language, not ethnicity, and not politics. In western Ukraine people are protesting and getting the same treatment. From the build-up of Maidan until today it has become one hell of a ride for everyone here. Pray no one ever hands you a ticket to it.

For weeks the sounds of shelling fill our days and nights and shake our house. The glare of sniper scopes in the distance are visible because they are pointed in our direction, and the inflow of Pravy Sektor, Kolomoisky's mercenaries, National Guard, and regular army has been dramatic.

Armored personnel carriers, tanks, large machine guns, and automatic weapons are now a constant feature on our streets. Each group has a different mandate, a different command structure and focus.

When the regular army enters the shops in town they are respectful to everyone. In light of what's going on, one of the shopkeepers asked an officer if they were here to kill us? The officer answered "Of course not!"

That was 2 days ago. The same day a local farmer from our town was harvesting grain on his field and troops practiced sniper shots on his tractor. Although he is uninjured, his grain will now go to waste. There will be less flour available to local bakeries.

When the Kolomoisky mercenaries go into the shops it's like a siege. They come twenty at a time circling the shop with their weapons pointing at anyone walking by. They do not receive government supplies so they clean out the stores, leaving little for residents. Transportation is at a standstill with the threat of snipers, and buses are stopped. People no longer have even moderate access to necessities, never mind luxury items.




Reasons why the Government in Kiev has no Credibility

They are using cluster bombs, missiles, rockets, and artillery, targeting hospitals, orphanages, schools, apartments, housing, water supplies etc.
Early on they cut off the shipment of medicines and to a degree food. People needing insulin or heart medication can no longer get them.

Ethnic cleansing of towns and villages that have no militias. In the towns of "Snowy" and "Friendly", houses were marked according to who supported them and who didn't. Pravy Sektor lined up men 16 to 60 in the street and shot them in cold blood. The two Russian reporters that were targeted and killed were with the survivors trying to leave the village of Friendly.

The use of mercenaries has been the hardest to deal with. The local red cross complains that the only thing they fire at is anything marked with a cross. Ambulances, medical drug transports and humanitarian goods have to be brought in secretly. This alone is a war crime, never mind the use of mercenaries to target and kill civilians, which is happening. Mercenary trainers also target orphanages instead of militia checkpoints. At first we thought that the Ukrainian army was just incompetent with howitzers and rockets. After a few months it was clear that instead of military targets, civilian targets over a kilometer away were being struck continually.



the rest of the article

www.opednews.com...








You do realize there are observers fron the UN there in eastern Ukraine not to mention OSCE and then through in western journalists as well. Yet the only one to make any claim of civilians being targeted in Russian media. You dont think thats odd? Now as far as targets if the Russians involved would stop hiding near civilian populations there would be no incidents of civilian deaths. Trust me whan i say the Ukrainian military could level sloviansk in hours they have the capability. But obviously hurting civilians isnt there goal there trying to remove the Russian provocateurs who are hiding among the civilian population. Putin already used the same tactic in crimea get women and children to stand between them and Ukraine's military it worked in Crimea. The stakes have gotten higher since than and Kiev now responds back with force when attacked you could argue its to much force. But again when in a war you use overwhelming force whenever and wherever possible because in the end that reduces casualties and shortens the conflict. This is rule number one in Urban combat do not let the enemy fighters escape contain them and take them out because if you dont they will start further conflicts somewhere else.

If the militia wanted to prevent civilian deaths instead of cause them they can move away from civilian centers and stop hiding in apartments they confiscate from people for example. If they fire from a position using morters expect return fire at that position. Thats why Ukrainians have figured it out and started chasing the militia from there neighborhoods. Watch a video a couple of days ago where a woman chased them off from around there apartments.



posted on Jun, 25 2014 @ 11:41 PM
link   
People of Novorossiya,
this is a compilation of interviews with regular people, their suffering, despair, humiliation.
Destruction and terror by Kiev continues.
In the midst of all this, Ukraine is signing association agreement with EU.
I assume it has proven record of democracy and human rights.
This world is turning into hell.




posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 12:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: cosmonova
People of Novorossiya,
this is a compilation of interviews with regular people, their suffering, despair, humiliation.
Destruction and terror by Kiev continues.
In the midst of all this, Ukraine is signing association agreement with EU.
I assume it has proven record of democracy and human rights.
This world is turning into hell.



I dont believe much the separatists release on video ever since they tried to fake an execution of Ukrainian officers. They did this to try to get Kiev to release people they captured turned out they faked the video of the execution and they were not even Ukrainian soldiers. The fake video was done by Igor Bezler a friend of Igor gurkin who murdered a Horlivka deputy named Volodomir Rybak.

When he made this video convinced me the separatists have no problems faking videos so when they say these are interviews etc lets just say im very sceptical since also the save Donbas campaign has been using pictures from ironically georgia showing dead bodies that were killed by Russian troops.



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 02:27 AM
link   
a reply to: Vovin




And Russia "was a big supporter of Nazis in Europe". What a crock of you-know-what.


Well then you may want to look up the the 1939 non aggression pact between Nazi Germany and Russia.


The first pact was an economic agreement, which Ribbentrop and Molotov signed on August 19, 1939.
The economic agreement committed the Soviet Union to provide food products as well as raw materials to Germany in exchange for furnished products such as machinery from Germany.

During the first years of the war, this economic agreement helped Germany bypass the British blockade.



What was meant by the terms of the pact was that if Germany attacked Poland, then the Soviet Union would not come to its aid. Thus, if Germany went to war against the West (especially France and Great Britain) over Poland, the Soviets were guaranteeing that they would not enter the war; thus not open a second front for Germany.

In addition to this agreement, Ribbentrop and Molotov added a secret protocol onto the pact -- a secret addendum whose existence was denied by the Soviets until 1989.



The secret protocol held an agreement between the Nazis and Soviets that greatly affected Eastern Europe. In exchange for the Soviets agreeing to not join the possible future war, Germany was giving the Soviets the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania). Poland was also to be divided between the two, along the Narew, Vistula, and San rivers.
The new territories gave the Soviet Union the buffer (in land) that it wanted to feel safe from an invasion from the West. It would need that buffer in 1941.


history1900s.about.com...

You are right what a crock...


Time to stop looking at one sided history from Russia and realize the world knows exactly what they are trying to do and what they have done in Ukraine.

And the only ethnic cleansing is being done by Russia against the Tartars...Again where is your outrage over that?



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 03:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin




And Russia "was a big supporter of Nazis in Europe". What a crock of you-know-what.


Well then you may want to look up the the 1939 non aggression pact between Nazi Germany and Russia.


The first pact was an economic agreement, which Ribbentrop and Molotov signed on August 19, 1939.
The economic agreement committed the Soviet Union to provide food products as well as raw materials to Germany in exchange for furnished products such as machinery from Germany.

During the first years of the war, this economic agreement helped Germany bypass the British blockade.



What was meant by the terms of the pact was that if Germany attacked Poland, then the Soviet Union would not come to its aid. Thus, if Germany went to war against the West (especially France and Great Britain) over Poland, the Soviets were guaranteeing that they would not enter the war; thus not open a second front for Germany.

In addition to this agreement, Ribbentrop and Molotov added a secret protocol onto the pact -- a secret addendum whose existence was denied by the Soviets until 1989.



The secret protocol held an agreement between the Nazis and Soviets that greatly affected Eastern Europe. In exchange for the Soviets agreeing to not join the possible future war, Germany was giving the Soviets the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania). Poland was also to be divided between the two, along the Narew, Vistula, and San rivers.
The new territories gave the Soviet Union the buffer (in land) that it wanted to feel safe from an invasion from the West. It would need that buffer in 1941.


history1900s.about.com...

You are right what a crock...


Time to stop looking at one sided history from Russia and realize the world knows exactly what they are trying to do and what they have done in Ukraine.

And the only ethnic cleansing is being done by Russia against the Tartars...Again where is your outrage over that?


Though true im talking alot more recently for example in Hungary Putin has been supporting the Jobbik party its an extreme right wing party we would call neo nazis. Jobbik has supporters who dress in Nazi-type uniforms, spout anti-Semitic rhetoric, and express concern about Israeli “colonization” of Hungary.In May 2013, Kremlin-connected right-wing Russian nationalists at the prestigious Moscow State University invited Jobbik party president Gabor Vona to speak. Vona also met with Russia Duma leaders including Ivan Grachev, chairman of the State Duma Committee for Energy and Vasily Tarasyuk, deputy chairman of the Committee on Natural Resources and Utilization, among others. On the Jobbik website, the visit is characterized as “a major breakthrough” which made “clear that Russian leaders consider Jobbik as a partner.” In fact, there have been persistent rumors that Jobbik’s enthusiasm is paid for with Russian rubles.

The Kremlin’s ties to France’s extreme-right National Front have also been growing stronger. Marine Le Pen, the party leader, visited Moscow in June 2013 at the invitation of State Duma leader Sergei Naryshkin, a close associate of Putin’s. She also met with Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin and discussed issues of common concern, such as Syria, EU enlargement, and gay marriage. France’s ProRussia TV, which is funded by the Kremlin, is staffed by editors with close ties to the National Front who use the station to espouse views close to National Front’s own perspective on domestic and international politics. The National Front wishes to replace the EU and NATO with a pan-European partnership of independent nations, which, incidentally, includes Russia and would be driven by a trilateral Paris-Berlin-Moscow alliance.

Golden Dawn, the Greek fascist party that won 18 seats in Greece’s parliament in 2012? Members use Nazi symbols at rallies, emphasize street fighting, and sing the Greek version of the Nazi Party anthem. The Greek government imprisoned Nikos Michaloliakos, its leader, and stripped parliamentary deputies of their political immunity before slapping them with charges of organized violence. But the party continues to take to the streets. Golden Dawn has never hidden its close connections to Russia’s extreme right, and is thought to receive funds from Russia. One Golden Dawn­­–linked website reports that Michaloliakos even received a letter in prison from Moscow State University professor and former Kremlin adviser Alexander Dugin, one of the authors of Putin’s “Eurasian” ideology. It was also Dugin who hosted Jobbik leader Vona when he visited Moscow.

Shall i go on by the way all this is easily found on the internet its not like Putin has been hiding this stuff. Theres more if we want to keep going but by all means believe the Russian press when they have been caught in lie after lie. I know are friend here is new to ATS and really has no clue about what people do on this sight but we do stay informed with alot of stuff going on behind the scenes.

My personal interest has always been intelligence services and finding out what they're up to needless to say i like to watch MI6 of course Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service, CIA, the mossad there always into something. Right now since about 2010 Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service have been very active with their campaigns to smear the west as well as undermine its security. At first was harmless until Putin started giving support to right wing groups in Europe for example Jobbick party in hungary is now the third largest largely through russian support.
edit on 6/26/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 05:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: cosmonova
People of Novorossiya,
this is a compilation of interviews with regular people, their suffering, despair, humiliation.
Destruction and terror by Kiev continues.
In the midst of all this, Ukraine is signing association agreement with EU.
I assume it has proven record of democracy and human rights.
This world is turning into hell.



I dont believe much the separatists release on video ever since they tried to fake an execution of Ukrainian officers. They did this to try to get Kiev to release people they captured turned out they faked the video of the execution and they were not even Ukrainian soldiers. The fake video was done by Igor Bezler a friend of Igor gurkin who murdered a Horlivka deputy named Volodomir Rybak.

When he made this video convinced me the separatists have no problems faking videos so when they say these are interviews etc lets just say im very sceptical since also the save Donbas campaign has been using pictures from ironically georgia showing dead bodies that were killed by Russian troops.


What are you talking about? Fake video? Why would the official releases of the new republics do something so stupid?



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 05:45 AM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin




And Russia "was a big supporter of Nazis in Europe". What a crock of you-know-what.


Well then you may want to look up the the 1939 non aggression pact between Nazi Germany and Russia.


The first pact was an economic agreement, which Ribbentrop and Molotov signed on August 19, 1939.
The economic agreement committed the Soviet Union to provide food products as well as raw materials to Germany in exchange for furnished products such as machinery from Germany.

During the first years of the war, this economic agreement helped Germany bypass the British blockade.



What was meant by the terms of the pact was that if Germany attacked Poland, then the Soviet Union would not come to its aid. Thus, if Germany went to war against the West (especially France and Great Britain) over Poland, the Soviets were guaranteeing that they would not enter the war; thus not open a second front for Germany.

In addition to this agreement, Ribbentrop and Molotov added a secret protocol onto the pact -- a secret addendum whose existence was denied by the Soviets until 1989.



The secret protocol held an agreement between the Nazis and Soviets that greatly affected Eastern Europe. In exchange for the Soviets agreeing to not join the possible future war, Germany was giving the Soviets the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania). Poland was also to be divided between the two, along the Narew, Vistula, and San rivers.
The new territories gave the Soviet Union the buffer (in land) that it wanted to feel safe from an invasion from the West. It would need that buffer in 1941.


history1900s.about.com...

You are right what a crock...


Time to stop looking at one sided history from Russia and realize the world knows exactly what they are trying to do and what they have done in Ukraine.

And the only ethnic cleansing is being done by Russia against the Tartars...Again where is your outrage over that?


Are you for real?

Seriously, you're trying to say that the non-aggression pact between Nazi-Germany and the USSR... Was a Russian plot to support Nazis?

I doubt you are serious, because if you are then you have zero comprehension of the ideological differences between the two peoples. And if you aren't serious, then you're clearly trolling me. Yet again.

So which is it, are you inept or are you trolling?

-----

As for the Tartars I don't know much about it so I don't find it necessary to make up an argument out of thin air to discuss it. And quite honestly I don't see much point in studying it just so I could discuss cultural geography with people on here who clearly have no understanding of this field of study unless it serves their political argument.
edit on 26-6-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 07:13 AM
link   
Looks like NATO is going to collect money from its members then hand it over to the Kiev regime to fund their "counter-terror" campaign against their own people. Source.



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 08:38 AM
link   
Looks like there's some infighting among the Kiev regime source.


According to speaker of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Alexander Turchynov, representatives of security agencies deliberately whipped up the situation systematically misinforming the country's leadership about Russia's possible military intervention, which had never happened.

"Our intelligence agencies have about ten times a month reported that the time of a military attack on the part of the Russian Federation was defined - usually it was at three or four in the morning. And we sat in combat readiness at the command post... and the rest of the army was preparing for an open war with the Eastern neighbor. But it did not happen," Alexander Turchinov said in an interview with Novoye Vremya, which is to be released tomorrow.



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 09:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: Vovin

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: cosmonova
People of Novorossiya,
this is a compilation of interviews with regular people, their suffering, despair, humiliation.
Destruction and terror by Kiev continues.
In the midst of all this, Ukraine is signing association agreement with EU.
I assume it has proven record of democracy and human rights.
This world is turning into hell.



I dont believe much the separatists release on video ever since they tried to fake an execution of Ukrainian officers. They did this to try to get Kiev to release people they captured turned out they faked the video of the execution and they were not even Ukrainian soldiers. The fake video was done by Igor Bezler a friend of Igor gurkin who murdered a Horlivka deputy named Volodomir Rybak.

When he made this video convinced me the separatists have no problems faking videos so when they say these are interviews etc lets just say im very sceptical since also the save Donbas campaign has been using pictures from ironically georgia showing dead bodies that were killed by Russian troops.


What are you talking about? Fake video? Why would the official releases of the new republics do something so stupid?


Im not sure why he did it other than scare Kiev.Heres the video but what hes doing is threatening Kiev that he will execute all captured Ukrainian officers if Kiev doesnt release prisoners. I would normally put a disclaimer on the video but it was shown to be a fake execution and they were not even Ukrainians in the video but members of his unit.However these actions show me that the separatists are willing and able to fake videos to further there cause so anything released by them has become suspect in my eyes.

Now i will do a warning this is a fake execution the set up is hes threatening Kiev has two supposed prisoners against a wall at the end of the video he shoots them. The reason it was shown to be fake is two at the time the video was made there were no missing officers like he claimed. And next when you watch the video the rounds hit the back wall and not the supposed captives. But even if real this was stupid because he was on video executing POWs.So this sas alot about the separatists dont you think?








edit on 6/26/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 11:14 AM
link   
a reply to: dragonridr

I think it says a lot more about the people who are silly enough to believe everything they see and hear.

I'm not going to take your word on what this video is. There were, in fact, fake videos of executions just like this produced by amateur sympathizers. There was one where a guy got his throat slit (I can't remember the circumstances) but observers immediately saw it was fake.

For all I know, the video you're showing me is some amateur highschool film project. There's nothing there to really prove who is there, aside from that guy's face. But I have no idea who he is. There's no insignia and he is wearing a Russian shirt under his camo, spetsnaz style.

As for the victims, who knows from the quality of this video if they are actually shot or not. Personally, it looks fake but so do a lot of real executions.

Ultimately I think you've given me some weak excuses here. You claim this video is why you won't watch or listen to anything the separatists release as their media. Yet their actual media is pretty high quality stuff, with some great rock music in the background.



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 12:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vovin
a reply to: dragonridr

I think it says a lot more about the people who are silly enough to believe everything they see and hear.

I'm not going to take your word on what this video is. There were, in fact, fake videos of executions just like this produced by amateur sympathizers. There was one where a guy got his throat slit (I can't remember the circumstances) but observers immediately saw it was fake.

For all I know, the video you're showing me is some amateur highschool film project. There's nothing there to really prove who is there, aside from that guy's face. But I have no idea who he is. There's no insignia and he is wearing a Russian shirt under his camo, spetsnaz style.

As for the victims, who knows from the quality of this video if they are actually shot or not. Personally, it looks fake but so do a lot of real executions.

Ultimately I think you've given me some weak excuses here. You claim this video is why you won't watch or listen to anything the separatists release as their media. Yet their actual media is pretty high quality stuff, with some great rock music in the background.


Well who he is i told you already hes clearly in the video hes a russian by the name of Igor Bezler. Here ill make this part easy for you heres his background.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now as far as the video ok suppose it is real than we have a Russian on video committing a war crime. So we have a separatists who works with Igor Strelkov AKA Colonel Igor Girkin of the GRU running the militia of Donetsk People’s Republic committed a war crime.Now true i think its fake however this same man has been executing sepratists or so he claimed. The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights filed a report on this.Supposedly on 26 May, by order of Igor Strelkov, Dmytro Slavov ('commander of a company of the people’s militia') and Mykola Lukyanov ('commander of a platoon of the militia of Donetsk People’s Republic') were 'executed' in Slovyansk, after they were 'sentenced' for 'looting, armed robbery, kidnapping and abandoning the battle field'. The order, which was circulated widely and posted in the streets in Slovyansk, referred to a decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Council of the USSR of 22 June 1941 as the basis for the execution.

So the militia leader is shooting his volunteers by the way in the report i read the stealing was clothes when they were fleeing the battle. They got out of there fatigues and were caught at a checkpoint my guess trying to go home. Bottom line is hes killing Ukrainians because hes in charge though why hes in charge is another matter entirely. Since hes a Moscow resident supposedly helping the donbast people when hes not executing them that is. Nice guy huh? Heres hoping the Ukrainian military sends him home in a body bag will save a war crimes tribunal when its over.
edit on 6/26/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 02:48 PM
link   
a reply to: dragonridr

That's some nice theory... Devoid of any real evidence or corroboration. It wouldn't stand up in any court, let alone the ICC.

As for this grand conspiracy of Russian invasion, the evidence just isn't there. Some ex-GRU officers working as separatist commanders makes sense, considering that they are Soviet veterans. The USSR included both Russia and Ukraine (an inconvenient fact that tends to be ignored).

And even if some of these commanders are in direct employment of GRU, how is that different from American "advisors" sent to Kiev to "reform" the Ukrainian military?



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 02:53 PM
link   
a reply to: Vovin




Seriously, you're trying to say that the non-aggression pact between Nazi-Germany and the USSR... Was a Russian plot to support Nazis?


Why yes.


The economic agreement committed the Soviet Union to provide food products as well as raw materials to Germany in exchange for furnished products such as machinery from Germany.

During the first years of the war, this economic agreement helped Germany bypass the British blockade.



The secret protocol held an agreement between the Nazis and Soviets that greatly affected Eastern Europe. In exchange for the Soviets agreeing to not join the possible future war, Germany was giving the Soviets the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania). Poland was also to be divided between the two, along the Narew, Vistula, and San rivers.


history1900s.about.com...

So not only were they supporting the Nazi's they were also to be rewarded for that support.



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 03:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Vovin




And even if some of these commanders are in direct employment of GRU, how is that different from American "advisors" sent to Kiev to "reform" the Ukrainian military?



Well let's see...The US said they were sending advisors, whereas Putin has denied involvement in that area so if they are in fact in direct employment with the GRU you understand what that shows...

Putin lied again

So it seems his involvement is becoming more and more transparent everyday.

Which also may be a reason for his sudden turn around concerning Ukraine, or was this his plan all along?
edit on 26-6-2014 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 03:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin




Seriously, you're trying to say that the non-aggression pact between Nazi-Germany and the USSR... Was a Russian plot to support Nazis?


Why yes.


The economic agreement committed the Soviet Union to provide food products as well as raw materials to Germany in exchange for furnished products such as machinery from Germany.

During the first years of the war, this economic agreement helped Germany bypass the British blockade.



The secret protocol held an agreement between the Nazis and Soviets that greatly affected Eastern Europe. In exchange for the Soviets agreeing to not join the possible future war, Germany was giving the Soviets the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania). Poland was also to be divided between the two, along the Narew, Vistula, and San rivers.


history1900s.about.com...

So not only were they supporting the Nazi's they were also to be rewarded for that support.




I hate to break this to you but you portray yourself as incapable of understanding geopolitics. I'm not even going to bother explaining everything wrong with your statement.



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 03:55 PM
link   
a reply to: Vovin




I hate to break this to you but you portray yourself as incapable of understanding geopolitics. I'm not even going to bother explaining everything wrong with your statement.



Why not, let's see what you got?

So your denying that Russia supported the Nazi's...


In August 1939 the two totalitarian states stunned the world by coming to a major agreement the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. They agreed to invade and partition Poland and divided up Eastern Europe. The Soviets provided Germany with oil and reversed the anti-Nazi rhetoric of Communist parties around the world.[15]


en.wikipedia.org...-15

Sounds like Russia is supporting the Nazi's, but unless it says it in RUssian history it isn't true.



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 04:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vovin
a reply to: dragonridr

That's some nice theory... Devoid of any real evidence or corroboration. It wouldn't stand up in any court, let alone the ICC.

As for this grand conspiracy of Russian invasion, the evidence just isn't there. Some ex-GRU officers working as separatist commanders makes sense, considering that they are Soviet veterans. The USSR included both Russia and Ukraine (an inconvenient fact that tends to be ignored).

And even if some of these commanders are in direct employment of GRU, how is that different from American "advisors" sent to Kiev to "reform" the Ukrainian military?


Its very different than an advisor he brought in troops took over the militia well more accurately created them.See an advisor goes into a country invited by the government. Terrorists are not a government they are a group of individuals trying to exert their will through force and threats. Where you aware the latest thing is separatists are now setting up land mines as reported to the UN. And im not talking about the ones Russia set up in crimea. See most civilized countries have signed bans on there use because they kill more civilians than military personnel. See you want to paint this nice picture of Ukrainians just trying to defend themselves from evil NAZIs. Truth is Russia attempted a land grab and it didnt work like planned Russians are being sent home in body bags and there losses are significant.

Russia attempted a covert op for deniability it worked in Crimea but in Crimea there was an overwhelming Russian population. Many russian nationals lived there because the base but in eastern Ukraine its different. The Russians had to bring people in from Russia and even than still not in the numbers needed. And Putin miscalculated popular support though many eastern Ukrainians arent happy with Kiev they didnt want to join Russia either.

As far as Putins support of NAZIs in europe its a known fact i gave you proof look up the meetings if Putin was attempting to fight NAZIs then why invite them to moscow? Hes been giving aid to NAZI organizations throughout europe. This isnt new however started with the Soviets it was a major KGB operation being former KGB im not surprised Putin continues there policies. I just hope eventual all instead of only some Russians wake up and realize Putin is trying to control them with an iron grip. Hes shut down free press in Russia has totally taken over the media hes locking up anyone who questions his authority.And hes trying to grab neighboring countries through subterfuge after all he's grabbed land from Georgia and now Ukraine.

You can close your eyes and plug your ears but the facts do not change. This Ukraine crises was orchestrated to give Putin a reason to step into europe. Hes never been happy when the former soviet Union collapsed and countries left. In his eyes they were Russian territory and he wants it back.

PS ask yourself why every one in charge is a Russian citizen was there no Ukrainians that wanted to fight NAZIS? IN total seriousness is RT your only source for news just curious.
edit on 6/26/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)







 
13
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join