Leo XIII vision of 100 years reign of Satan pass in Summer 2014?

originally posted by: tetra50

June 28, 2014 marks 100 years since the Assassination of Archduke
Franz Ferdinand of Austria en.wikipedia.org...
The assassination led directly to the First World War that started on 28 July 1914. That marked the start of what would be the bloodiest century in the entire recorded history on Earth after the Flood.

How that relates to the vision of pope Leo 13 of a period of time 75-100 years controlled by Satan? Does it mean we approach its end this Summer?

a reply to: 2012newstart

I sincerely hope it does mean that, yes…..
thanks for posting such in the current paradigm. My fear is that we will label the wrong entity, and so it will continue just like this..

I hope not.
tetra

If you would just help me already it could be within some of your power to make sure that doesnt happen

originally posted by: ImaFungi

originally posted by: tetra50

June 28, 2014 marks 100 years since the Assassination of Archduke
Franz Ferdinand of Austria en.wikipedia.org...
The assassination led directly to the First World War that started on 28 July 1914. That marked the start of what would be the bloodiest century in the entire recorded history on Earth after the Flood.

How that relates to the vision of pope Leo 13 of a period of time 75-100 years controlled by Satan? Does it mean we approach its end this Summer?

a reply to: 2012newstart

I sincerely hope it does mean that, yes…..
thanks for posting such in the current paradigm. My fear is that we will label the wrong entity, and so it will continue just like this..

I hope not.
tetra

If you would just help me already it could be within some of your power to make sure that doesnt happen

And how can I help?
tetra

I am not a prophet. The best help is someone to sit down and reflect in prayer.

Here is another clue for the wise:

2 Esdras book was included in the first Roman translation of the Bible, known as Vulgate. It was included in the original King James version as well. It is not included in the Orthodox Bible.

2 Esdras 14 www.sacred-texts.com...

11 For the world is divided into twelve parts, and the ten parts of it are gone already, and half of a tenth part:

12 And there remaineth that which is after the half of the tenth part.

Please do the math yourselves. If you take for the period of time that was already gone the Biblical count of 6000 years, the world would have already ended by now. Obviously, the age of the world is bigger than that. Does it mean the age of planet Earth (4 bln years) or the age of the Universe (anywhere between 13-17 bln years or more). In either case, the remaining portion of the allotted time for the "world" would be a significant period of many thousands of years, may be millions. For practical reasons, it doesn't matter whichever you choose, the age of the planet or the age of the Universe. Both give a result much beyond any human or civilization lifespan known to us.

Jesus Christ's Glorious Coming is reserved for the End. Only some 1000 years before the End. IF the Revelation is correct (I already listed arguments about that). You couldn't imagine the world/universe would end in 1000 years. The death will be gone too. The physical death is a reality in our Universe that affects not only the living beings but also the matter, planets, stars. It is known also as entropy. According to Revelation's final chapters, and according to Paul, that phenomenon called death will be finished at the End.

Reading Esdras you would imagine there would be millions years more, or at least thousands, and nothing of the sort of several more years lifespan of the "world". Whatever the "world" means for you, the planet or the Universe.


To tell me after that the antichrist comes on a certain date, and after 3.5y comes Jesus Christ, because of some Jewish festivals that repeat all the time, is not very serious. All the time all generations expected that mythical person (antichrist), and named antichrists (there were such no doubt of Nero, Hitler, etc). It is strange Jesus doesn't single out ONE person but speaks in plural. In what is preserved of Jesus' words.

This is my simple input. Please do yours. I do not teach anybody. You are free to make your own reflection, discernment, even prophecy if you have one. Or to believe or not any of them.

I do not put a date for the end of this month, and I repeat that again. This thread was meant to REFLECT on it, not to set a date. Look at its headline. Thanks for all your reflections and input!

I accept the validity of the book of Revelation as canonical book until ruled otherwise.

There are arguments to put doubt on the author of the book. Is he the same John the apostle? I don't have the answer and my intention is not to provide a such.

If we assume the Revelation is written by someone else John later, and therefore doesn't have prophetic significance, then:

first of all we lose the established timeline of End times, too popular today.

We remain with expectation of future coming of Jesus that may happen tomorrow or after a million years.

We remain with only what Daniel wrote about,a nd it is not that much. For ex. Daniel didn't foresee the ENTIRE period of the Church that span already some 1980+ years. He didn't foresee the great pause in his prophecy, fulfilled literally up to the 69th week and not for the 70th. He could have other things missed, if he missed so much. His prophecy will be definitely fulfilled bu t at the end. Similar is the situation with the other OT prophets who weren't given the vision of the Church, or its historic route. They didn't see the Arab invasion, the Muslim, the Christian wars, the Christian conquests of the world. Nothing. They were given the knowledge of the end of the world and messianic return.

Yes Ezekiel could fulfill tomorrow. Or after 10,000 years. Nobody knows. And more than the time itself, we don't know what more events are between now and then. They could be as much significant as settle to another planet if this one becomes uninhabited (enough scenarios how that could be achieved, incl but not only man made).

Since I ACCEPT the book of Revelation, I go on its well established timeline.

It includes a big pause (or called parenthesis) in Revelation 12 between the rapture of the manchild and the persecution of the woman. There is an entire space/cosmic war between space powers there. Almost as Star Wars. From the point of view of today's knowledge we cannot deny that anymore. There is a war where archangel Michael's ETs are the winners on global universal scale. Not on the scale of the atmosphere probably? Revelation 12 speaks of 1/3 of all stars who are taken by the dragon. We know how many they are. That war will take quite a time. Until that time is finished, the woman is still not persecuted and we still don't have the dragon and the beast rising on planet Earth's surface. I'd wish if someone more skillful than me in prophecy elaborates on that scenario. My voice was a voice in the desert and no one expressed any desire to work with me on that. Now I don't have anymore free time online.

We didn't have any rapture after 90 Ad when Revelation is presumably written (oldest doc from late 2nd c). Unless we assume that for Mary (taken to heaven, but she is the mother not the child), for any other hypothetical persons to represent the manchild. Certainly NOT baby Jesus!!!! It was not raptured!

Having that event still pending, according to our current knowledge, we have the entire war in heaven/space not started yet.

It could be someone else was raptured meanwhile. I develop that idea in the thread of John 23. It could be someone of Jesus' relatives to be raptured and that one to be the manchild of revelation. Let not call him descendant but relative. I do not insist on that HYPOTHESIS.

If that occurred indeed, in the years after 90 AD, then we might expect a sooner end of the space war and a sooner coming of the end times. How soon is soon?

I say the HYPOTHESIS about a relative/descendant of Jesus as possibility not certainty.
Let say St Jude who was a cousin of Jesus, had children. So Jesus had a nephew.

(Please do not call me servant of antichrist for reflecting on that! Otherwise, you do your own reflection, so you don't call yourself servant of antichrist.)

The truth is we don't know the truth.

If no rapture occurred between 33 AD and 2014, we should expect such to occur in the (near) future. The manchild could be the assembled image of all the firstfruits raptured people. Or someone else.

The importance is we don't have the visible cosmic event of the space war. It will be a great visible fulfilled event not symbolism. Because it is written as such, as long as we accept John's apocalypse as true. Unless proved otherwise, I accept it as true.

If we assume the Revelation (and the entire Bible) are written only for planet Earth, there are consequences as well. Surely that is a natural assumption, very popular in past ages. But is it the correct one?

First of all, the talk of "the end of the world" contradicts with the end of the universe.
We have either the end of the entire universe the way we know it, and a new beginning, without death anymore (Revelation's end),

or we have burning out the planet earth and resettlement of humanity on a new earth under new heaven (or stars) that is in 2 letter of Peter.

Paul talks of the end of the death, that means the end and renovation of the entire Universe, since the death is present elsewhere (as far a s we know by current level of science).

Perhaps those all are different points of view on different events. Peter's event is different from Paul's and Revelation.

It is up to you what your point of view will be. Earthly, that will reach to a resettlement on another planet, and that is perfectly correct. That doesn't require necessarily the presence of Jesus Christ. Peter's event doesn't have descending of Jesus on Earth for judgment, neither has antichrist.

Or you will look for the bigger picture. That includes the final judgment day of the Universe, described in the end of the Apocalypse of John. And the new beginning for all creation (that is not restricted to the earth's creation).

The problem is, in the timeline of John's Apocalypse there are 1000 years. As many as they seem, they are too little compared to the age of the Universe. That means, the Universe ends 1000 years after the second coming of Jesus.
Unless God makes miracles, because He is above time an space.
Actually, I don't have the slightest imagination what those 1000 years reign will be, in resurrected state of bodies of all elect ones. It is beyond our wildest imagination. So it could be possible for God to complete all His grand plan in only 1000 earthly years. We don't know. I think we still have a lot of time until the Second coming of Jesus on Armageddon and the 1000y reign.

including Peter makes the timeline much more elaborated.

Could we have:

1.burning out the earth's surface (Chastisement) in 2 Peter,
2. resettlement of the saved humanity to a new planet just before that
3. eons of time until earth is restored to life, similar to what happened after dinosaurs' era
4. resettlement of humanity back on earth, restoration of civilizations
5. unspecified time of life on earth
6. real final end times with antichrist and armageddon, second coming of Jesus
7. Millenium reign
8 end of the universe


Or, 2 Peter = end of Apocalypse i.e. the end of the Universe? Many think in that way. If that was true however, Peter woudn't miss important details, such as resurrection that precedes the final judgment by 1000 years, the coming of Jesus Christ in resurrected body on Earth, the antichrist (I gave them in reversed order, anyway). Peter doesn't say a word about all of that.

Moreover, Peter speaks of a new earth that is a new planet.

Does it mean the end of Revelation equals only to a new planet and nothing more? I think it speaks of much more, of realities beyond our visible universe.

OK I might be wrong and Peter might just describe with few words what others speak more of. Too few words, too much missing points!

Perhaps someone will resurrect ahead of general resurrection, under the example of Virgin Mary, and will tell us the real case?

Perhaps Virgin Mary who appears here and there in resurrected state of body and is touchable, has already said the real case scenario to seers? That has yet to be proven in reality.

I am open for any possibility.

originally posted by: Josephus
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Yes, isn't it horrible? Civil rights for all and democracy, together with freedom of speech and education for all. Must be Satan doing it all, the Pope was right. Everything was better before, when there was but ONE book that ONE person in the village owned ONE copy of and was the only ONE who was allowed to read and understand it, those were the days. To prophecy future disasters and moralistic decay is the simplest thing in the world. Prophets, true or false alike-- have been sticking their heads out in the current of eternity proclaiming their dismay over such since we invented writing. Take the following for instance:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

~ Socrates (469–399 B.C.)

originally posted by: tetra50

June 28, 2014 marks 100 years since the Assassination of Archduke
Franz Ferdinand of Austria en.wikipedia.org...
The assassination led directly to the First World War that started on 28 July 1914. That marked the start of what would be the bloodiest century in the entire recorded history on Earth after the Flood.

How that relates to the vision of pope Leo 13 of a period of time 75-100 years controlled by Satan? Does it mean we approach its end this Summer?

a reply to: 2012newstart

I sincerely hope it does mean that, yes…..
thanks for posting such in the current paradigm. My fear is that we will label the wrong entity, and so it will continue just like this..

I hope not.
tetra

Tetra, the temptation is always possible. Whom shall we label "antichrist"? Whoever comes in the name of the Lord? Don't we say in each Holy Mass "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the highest!". I always wondered why we don't say instead: Blessed IS the Lord. I wondered why Jesus set such precondition to the Jews, to say the above phrase for His return, not to call on Him directly but to bless someone who apparently would be coming at that time in His name. May be there is one or more than one person who comes in the name of the Lord. In history they are thousands saints who came in the name of the Lord.

I said a lot of the manchild, whoever he might be, he is someone who comes in the name of the Lord, while being physically different from Lord Jesus. (Jesus was never raptured as a baby in first place). Whatever the symbological meaning that the Churches employed during the centuries, the text is before us NOW, and we have different set of knowledge today, to be capable of reflecting on those issues independently and on level far beyond the medieval one.

That is why the need "in the name of" and not "the Lord" himself. It would be a great mistake to call an archangel or a messenger such as the manchild, or the resurrected prophets at the Crucifixion who now may appear at will, or may be Enoch and Melchizedek, to call any on them "antichrist". It will result in those people who accept that wrong view, to cut off themselves from God's grace to save them and their generations physically. They will save their souls, but as thru the fire, as Paul says.

I don't know when the promised by seers Chastisement comes, and whether I will be alive at that moment (someone said I am afraid from the death, not really). But it is clear only a small portion of today's Christians will accept the way out, not necessarily the most devote ones, rather the most open and practical ones, those who want to save their children and grandchildren first, before making theology. The others will believe the Armageddon comes and that is the trap of the antichrist. And will ultimately die. What more to say. To see Jesus on a nuclear cloud may sound calm in the Cold War and may guarantee salvation of soul. But surely it is not the plan of Jesus everyone to die and no one to continue. He continues sending messengers, and He himself appeared a number of times. I will not be surprised at all if the next messenger after Virgin Mary's apparitions is exactly one of the resurrected prophets.

So I don't accept the blunt attack on the catholic papacy and especially the demonization of the idea a pope could be resurrected and become the antichrist. The propagana campain apparently orchestrated by devious groups, goes into many popular sites and sells an image of alien invaders who will bring the antichrist. All of the sort. Creating an image of a god completely different from God of love who cares for us and wants to save us.

How about Lazarus then? How about the prophets at the Cross? Are we the ones to tell the Lord what He would do? Remember the dialogue between Martha, Maria, and Jesus when He came to resurrect Lazarus. Their belief reached the one of all the Jews - belief in the resurrection on the last day. Is our belief any bigger than that? Did we forget Jesus is already risen, long after the Lazarus case, and lived, dwells, in heaven, or if He chooses so He could do many things including visits to star systems, including appointing messengers. If he cannot come back on Earth because of his own set precondition (and I want to see original papyrus dating back to year 50 AD), then He could send any of His faithful servants. To save whoever wants to be saved. For the mission expressed in the words "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord."

This is my last post in a row and I want to add to everything already said, in this thread and in the thread of John 23 alien contact:

Should the antichrist come soon, there are asteroids falling on earth, in the first trumps of Revelation. That didn't happen so far, despite all talk, theories and expectations around 2012. Unless you have the trumps fulfilled, you can wait and wait you won't get the antichrist on the scene. Of course unless you have the rapture of manchild, the star wars, and the casting dragon on earth (draconians, pretty physical beings, intelligent and cruel). Only then, after the dragon takes some part of the world, only then the beast rises. Read 2 Esdras 15 in detail. Dragons will choose Arabia as their landing pad.

The good angelic forces come first, and they will do so to assure the rapture, and the flee of the woman in the desert, in case we are in the short end-times scenario. It will be a terrible mistake to mess them with the dracs. It will be a terrible mistake to mess them even if we are on the longer scenario I talked above.

I have the feeling the religious people are paralyzed by fear of demons and antichrist and lose any capability of reason and logic, of connecting the dots and of already well known verses of the Holy Scripture. Where are the gifts of Holy Spirit? wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, fortitude, piety, and fear of the Lord (wonder and awe). Those people's way forward, if we are in the end times (as they say we are), leads directly to Revelation 12:17 "the rest of her offspring" who refused the flee of the woman, were not raptured or secured otherwise, and the descended dragon wages war on them. Even before the rising of the beast.

Those are pretty physical and real images, those are not spiritual entities alone. The prophet talks of a war being waged on earth, and not only the war of the beast, you have the dragon first. The prophet doesn't talk of symbolic meaning, as it is moern to preach today. The prophet is not preterist. He sees future events and speaks of them. The dragon comes only after losing Star Wars battles and pretty angry. You will have alien invasion at this point on earth. But not invasion by loving God-sent angelic beings who want to save you. Invasion of cruel draconians. Learn to make the difference.

A thorough reread of the gospel and revelation with the new knowledge acquired in the last years is a must for every serious Bible researcher. Even more so if we are already in the end times.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
I am not a prophet.

But you ARE what you are doing here is Prophecy.

a reply to: tetra50

I already told you what I need help with

originally posted by: 2012newstart


11 For the world is divided into twelve parts, and the ten parts of it are gone already, and half of a tenth part:

12 And there remaineth that which is after the half of the tenth part.

Please do the math yourselves. If you take for the period of time that was already gone the Biblical count of 6000 years, the world would have already ended by now. Obviously, the age of the world is bigger than that. Does it mean the age of planet Earth (4 bln years) or the age of the Universe (anywhere between 13-17 bln years or more). In either case, the remaining portion of the allotted time for the "world" would be a significant period of many thousands of years, may be millions. For practical reasons, it doesn't matter whichever you choose, the age of the planet or the age of the Universe. Both give a result much beyond any human or civilization lifespan known to us.

You couldn't imagine the world/universe would end in 1000 years. The death will be gone too. The physical death is a reality in our Universe that affects not only the living beings but also the matter, planets, stars.

Why do you think those quotes about 'the world being divided into parts' is talking about time?

And do not think the entire universe will end...please. 'the end of time/the end times', is about 'the end of the times', the end of an era, a death and birth of a new way of human life, personal and interpersonal relations. The entire universe is not going to end...this is impossible, and silly.

a reply to: 2012newstart


What is the importance of the manchild in revelation, what does he do?

originally posted by: ImaFungi

originally posted by: 2012newstart


11 For the world is divided into twelve parts, and the ten parts of it are gone already, and half of a tenth part:

12 And there remaineth that which is after the half of the tenth part.

Please do the math yourselves. If you take for the period of time that was already gone the Biblical count of 6000 years, the world would have already ended by now. Obviously, the age of the world is bigger than that. Does it mean the age of planet Earth (4 bln years) or the age of the Universe (anywhere between 13-17 bln years or more). In either case, the remaining portion of the allotted time for the "world" would be a significant period of many thousands of years, may be millions. For practical reasons, it doesn't matter whichever you choose, the age of the planet or the age of the Universe. Both give a result much beyond any human or civilization lifespan known to us.

You couldn't imagine the world/universe would end in 1000 years. The death will be gone too. The physical death is a reality in our Universe that affects not only the living beings but also the matter, planets, stars.

Why do you think those quotes about 'the world being divided into parts' is talking about time?

And do not think the entire universe will end...please. 'the end of time/the end times', is about 'the end of the times', the end of an era, a death and birth of a new way of human life, personal and interpersonal relations. The entire universe is not going to end...this is impossible, and silly.

Damn, I hate to kill a good reproach. But there is no distinction between time and space. It's is what the fabric of space we are, and are all built from. Every atom in your body was fancied in the core a star, at some stage in time. We were created in a furnace, and at some point in time we gathered we'd all just go earth-bound. in circles. in eternities of magic and magnetic matters' cycles.....

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: ImaFungi

originally posted by: 2012newstart


11 For the world is divided into twelve parts, and the ten parts of it are gone already, and half of a tenth part:

12 And there remaineth that which is after the half of the tenth part.

Please do the math yourselves. If you take for the period of time that was already gone the Biblical count of 6000 years, the world would have already ended by now. Obviously, the age of the world is bigger than that. Does it mean the age of planet Earth (4 bln years) or the age of the Universe (anywhere between 13-17 bln years or more). In either case, the remaining portion of the allotted time for the "world" would be a significant period of many thousands of years, may be millions. For practical reasons, it doesn't matter whichever you choose, the age of the planet or the age of the Universe. Both give a result much beyond any human or civilization lifespan known to us.

You couldn't imagine the world/universe would end in 1000 years. The death will be gone too. The physical death is a reality in our Universe that affects not only the living beings but also the matter, planets, stars.

Why do you think those quotes about 'the world being divided into parts' is talking about time?

And do not think the entire universe will end...please. 'the end of time/the end times', is about 'the end of the times', the end of an era, a death and birth of a new way of human life, personal and interpersonal relations. The entire universe is not going to end...this is impossible, and silly.

Damn, I hate to kill a good reproach. But there is no distinction between time and space. It's is what the fabric of space we are, and are all built from. Every atom in your body was fancied in the core a star, at some stage in time. We were created in a furnace, and at some point in time we gathered we'd all just go earth-bound. in circles. in eternities of magic and magnetic matters' cycles.....

I just havent seen the correlation between the (paraphrased by me now) quote 'the earth is split in 12 parts and 10 and a half are gone' and the OP suggesting that this splitting of parts references quantities of time which he knows of what they are.

a reply to: ImaFungi

I can easily see how this contradiction between ancient and quite primitive moralistic sociopatetic behaviour recorded in OT together with stuff like 5 + 6 = 13, it gets to one. Bloody hell Evreca!

Please read the text in original and full, and then make your conclusions. It doesn't suffice to only contradict me. What profit of doing that? Do I post all those quotes only in order to be negated by you? If you want to discuss the scripture, and prophecy, please do so. I already did it. You did not, for great part of you guys. You don't comment on what I write, you seek your own purpose here.

So here are the texts, if you haven't read them already

www.sacred-texts.com...
2 Esdras Chapter 14

9 For thou shalt be taken away from all, and from henceforth thou shalt remain with my Son, and with such as be like thee, until the times be ended.

10 For the world hath lost his youth, and the times begin to wax old.

11 For the world is divided into twelve parts, and the ten parts of it are gone already, and half of a tenth part:

12 And there remaineth that which is after the half of the tenth part.


(A clear indication of TIME that has gone and that remains).


www.sacred-texts.com...

2 Esdras Chapter 15

28 Behold an horrible vision, and the appearance thereof from the east:

29 Where the nations of the dragons of Arabia shall come out with many chariots, and the multitude of them shall be carried as the wind upon earth, that all they which hear them may fear and tremble.

30 Also the Carmanians raging in wrath shall go forth as the wild boars of the wood, and with great power shall they come, and join battle with them, and shall waste a portion of the land of the Assyrians.

31 And then shall the dragons have the upper hand, remembering their nature; and if they shall turn themselves, conspiring together in great power to persecute them,

32 Then these shall be troubled bled, and keep silence through their power, and shall flee.

33 And from the land of the Assyrians shall the enemy besiege them, and consume some of them, and in their host shall be fear and dread, and strife among their kings.

34 Behold clouds from the east and from the north unto the south, and they are very horrible to look upon, full of wrath and storm.

35 They shall smite one upon another, and they shall smite down a great multitude of stars upon the earth, even their own star; and blood shall be from the sword unto the belly,

...
39 And strong winds shall arise from the east, and shall open it; and the cloud which he raised up in wrath, and the star stirred to cause fear toward the east and west wind, shall be destroyed.

40 The great and mighty clouds shall be puffed up full of wrath, and the star, that they may make all the earth afraid, and them that dwell therein; and they shall pour out over every high and eminent place an horrible star,

41 Fire, and hail, and flying swords, and many waters, that all fields may be full, and all rivers, with the abundance of great waters.

42 And they shall break down the cities and walls, mountains and hills, trees of the wood, and grass of the meadows, and their corn.

43 And they shall go stedfastly unto Babylon, and make her afraid.

44 They shall come to her, and besiege her, the star and all wrath shall they pour out upon her: then shall the dust and smoke go up unto the heaven, and all they that be about her shall bewail her.

................

and so on, continues in chapter 16 the last chapter of the public ones. If you bother to read the other chapters, you will learn not everything Esdras wrote was made publicly available. And other interesting things that could add up to Daniel (quoted!). Instead of being inteerpreted by the preachers, almost nobody talks of Esdras today. He pinned the country where the Dragons come from, Arabia! (that would include not only Saudi Arabia but all those kingdoms).

Do we have an alien invasion here, described under the word "star" (the death star?) and "clouds an winds"? Do we have Draconian invasion???

About "time, if you don't accept it as time but as space, you are quite far from the spirit of the book, and look for the letter, and even though you don't recognize the clearly written word "time" many times over. Better start reading it altogether chapter after chapter, if you care about. And here I am speaking to those religious and preachers who care about and who might read. I myself have learned that from a preacher online, who opened my eyes for the book of Esdras and the possible interpretation of these quotes (of the dragons particularly). I am thankful to that guy although I don't agree with the rest of his interpretations. Perhaps you should be thankful to me too, although you may not agree with the rest of my own interpretations!

Arabia and Assyria and Iran (Carmanians) are players countries not that far from our contemporary reality. Still, they may refer to future events. I don't know. I don't pretend to know or to give any conclusive judgment. Nobody can. That doesn't mean we should not think of it and talk of it.

2 Esdras book is canonical for the Roman Catholics and also has been included in the original version of King James Bible.

Strange enough, it is not those who talk about it now, but individual preachers who cannot be called even "protestants".

Another strange thing, the book was preserved by the Catholic church, and is not found in the Judaic holy texts.

It is believed the first one-two chapters were added later in Christian time. The others are believed to be authentic.

Esdras talks of other books never released in public (in the meaning of common religious service that was restricted back then to priesthood). Those secret books were kept "for the wise".

There is a coming of messiah.

There is a beast in the form of 3-head eagle.

The book is called "Jewish apocalypse" by some.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
Please read the text in original and full, and then make your conclusions. It doesn't suffice to only contradict me. What profit of doing that? Do I post all those quotes only in order to be negated by you? If you want to discuss the scripture, and prophecy, please do so. I already did it. You did not, for great part of you guys. You don't comment on what I write, you seek your own purpose here.

no I havent read the texts but I am a quite good at interpreting meaning, so instead of spending a few years reading texts, i choose to come across this potentially interesting thread, to ask someone who appears to be knowledgeable on the subject, questions, and in that way, we will see what we can know, and I will see what I can learn.

9 For thou shalt be taken away from all, and from henceforth thou shalt remain with my Son, and with such as be like thee, until the times be ended.

Times ended, do you accept that this could refer to 'the ending of a time or era', like the ending of the 20s, or 60s, or 70s, not the physical ending of physical energetic time, but instead an expression, the roarin 20s, ahh those were the times, its a shame those times had to end.

10 For the world hath lost his youth, and the times begin to wax old.

11 For the world is divided into twelve parts, and the ten parts of it are gone already, and half of a tenth part:

12 And there remaineth that which is after the half of the tenth part.

Dang yea, that is very confusing... it could mean 12 parts, as in 12 ages or eras, even maybe like the 12 hours of a clock, and isnt there something in the bible of a day of God equals 1000 years or something.

So you think its definitely not 12 parts, like 12 races or geographical areas or kingdoms, but definitely time, ok. And maybe below in your response you answer how you concluded what the time quantity of each part equals, I havent got down there yet.

28 Behold an horrible vision, and the appearance thereof from the east:

29 Where the nations of the dragons of Arabia shall come out with many chariots, and the multitude of them shall be carried as the wind upon earth, that all they which hear them may fear and tremble.

I see no reason to believe this is referring to actual dragons, or draconian aliens, like you suggest elsewhere in this thread. Could just mean the fierce and mighty and warrior like arabs. When those middle eastern nations come out with many chariots, could refer to their technological progression, when they advance, get a lot of cars, and the multitude shall be carried as the wind upon the earth, meaning lots of middle eastern people or arabs, become immigrants the world over, and all which hears them fear and tremble, would mean all the white people who are scared of arabs and muslims and islam etc.

35 They shall smite one upon another, and they shall smite down a great multitude of stars upon the earth, even their own star; and blood shall be from the sword unto the belly,

Star doesnt necessarily mean star, this could be symbolic or metaphor, id like to see the original words that 'star' was translated from. It could have been a term used to refer to spirits or souls or humans, smiting a great multitude of men, and even of their own star, even of their own race and peoples there was bloodshed, suicide bombings come to mind, isnt there a star on the islam flag?

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39 And strong winds shall arise from the east, and shall open it; and the cloud which he raised up in wrath, and the star stirred to cause fear toward the east and west wind, shall be destroyed.

I would like to know whats being opened, what the wind shall open, and using my interpretation, of the star being a soul or spirit or human, as lucifer was said to be the morning star, a person that stirs to cause fear toward the east and west will be destroyed.

40 The great and mighty clouds shall be puffed up full of wrath, and the star, that they may make all the earth afraid, and them that dwell therein; and they shall pour out over every high and eminent place an horrible star,

41 Fire, and hail, and flying swords, and many waters, that all fields may be full, and all rivers, with the abundance of great waters.

42 And they shall break down the cities and walls, mountains and hills, trees of the wood, and grass of the meadows, and their corn.

43 And they shall go stedfastly unto Babylon, and make her afraid.

44 They shall come to her, and besiege her, the star and all wrath shall they pour out upon her: then shall the dust and smoke go up unto the heaven, and all they that be about her shall bewail her.

I would like to know who 'they' is, perhaps its still referring to 'the dragons' or arabs. Sounds like the description of protests maybe, violence, overthrowing the established order. The star and all wrath shall they pour out upon her, sounds like it means, 'with the power of the sun', a burning light, powerful fire, with that passion of a star, or the spirit, they will take over 'Babylon', or, the modern way.

Yes I am thankful to you because you provide a lot of information and care about the topic.