Does striving to be a good person lead to higher consciousness?

I have been wondering a few things. Many here on ATS are proudly atheist. Cool, fill your boots. I am wondering if the prevalent opinion is that we as humans have reached our pinnacle in higher consciousness, perhaps intuition, or understanding. Does science provide the only stepping stone or pathway for evolutionary development.

Does striving to be a better person, ie. more kind, more compassionate, more generous, more forgiving, more loving, accepting, patient, etc. move us further along the evolutionary line towards something higher and more pure? What is the next progressive step in consciousness for humanity?

Do atheists believe in a spiritual side that can be cultivated in some way, perhaps changing the destiny or karmic potentials leading to a more prosperous life? Or do we think that there is no right or wrong or progressive evolutionary step attached to morals, values and ethics and leading a righteous life. That these concepts are only subjective applications and not universal truths.

I am truly curious about the prevalent views here on ATS regarding ego, selfishness, greed, narcissism, and selflessness.

Please enlighten me.

Personally, I believe in a dualism; that we can move forward in the physical world through science, and technology, but we also have a spiritual side, as well. A side that needs to be cultivated and perfected. What makes most sense to me is balancing the polarities in our lives and realizing how these polarities between the physical and spiritual effect our lives, desires, and goals.

Thoughts?

a reply to: sparrowstail
Interesting. ...But I think you have answered your own question..

Peace

Many religions thinks that the route to a higher conscious is though suffering and hardship.

Ive also met a LOT of self styled hippies that are total A holes (i live near Glastonbury in the UK). they project love and compassion but when it comes down to it they are self centered ego maniacs.

I dont think following any set of rules or guidelines will automatically make you a better person..just be a better person and be yourself.

a reply to: sparrowstail

Nice post. I was born into a catholic family brought up in an education system with catholic practises incorporated into it. Now ive moved away from that, not in ideas of God but the corruption and hypocrisy of the church. Now ive never been more spiritual and at peace with my existence and the inevitability of death in this reality.
I struggle to grasp the basic "facts" of the evolution of species as taught in mainstream science. We basically have to take this as truth. I feel that we have reached our highest form physically (maybe a few fine tuning mods, thinner, faster, taller). However, its the development of these technologies that fulfil many of the tedious tasks in life and free up our minds for more important matters. Although i struggle to see the good in the role of technology in ruining the intimates of communicating face to face i see this moment in time a turning point in the future of mankind. Like the moment man first made fire and due to less hunting/ eating time were able to mentally advance this can be said of now. The amount of time now made available by these techs will lead individuals to look inwards and spend more time evolving spiritually and mentally. Although ive come to dislike the role of technology it is through this tech that i have found truths that have changed and developed my life for the better. Peace

There are a few problems in your OP; however, those problems are not bad. They actually open up a new set of philosophical and spiritual questions.

Does striving to be a good person lead to a higher consciousness? That's a difficult question to ask based upon the fact that we are indoctrinated in a western view of thinking that comes to the eventuality of A or B, light or dark, up or down. Maybe, just maybe, people are beginning to see grey. There is another mode of thinking where objects, motives, answers, and questions themselves can be true, false, both true and false, and neither true nor false. It's a new and interesting idea that utilizes mathematics in order to conceptualize eastern philosophy to the extent that it is no longer contradictory mysticism, but an extremely logical mode of thinking

What is good depends on your life experiences in this entire Universe. In a dualist view, we come to an accidental "oh no moment". Whether it be God or Science, the answer comes out to be the same inevitability in Western thought. If a God exists that is omnipotent and exists with omniscience, one beyond space and time, then it necessarily follows that he knows all of your actions and why you will take them. You are locked and loaded from the moment of creation, and you're technically waiting to be that person who goes to heaven or that person who goes to hell due to the way God dictated the universe. You are bound to fate and the universal flow of causality. Our limited understanding of the fundamental forces does us no better here. If we go from the assumption that there was an initial expansion that we like to call the "Big Bang" everything is technically the same, just without the hell and heaven end result. Example: If I knock over a cup, we don't expect it to wobble and then shoot 5000 feet into the air. That's asinine and any toddler can identify why it won't be the case. We are bound by rules of kinetic exchange and energy transfer. So to is the beginning dictating the end in the initial expansion explanation. Those first particles that bounced off of one another dictated where the next would bounce, and so forth. This results in an eventuality of "fate by physics" where from the moment you are born to the moment you die your actions are dictated by the original expansion and how energy diced to bounce off of other forms of energy in a calculable way.
The west = fate
Through science and religion, the west = fate

What is Good when there is only fate? What is higher consciousness, when there is only fate? Why do you ask such question, and why do I attempt to answer? By western standards, it's merely the rules that everything follow. We are in causalities flow, and no matter how complicated we may seem, we are just set rendering of either God or an inert Universe. Good has no meaning because there is obviously no choice. Calvin, Aquinas, Martin Luther, and others of the faith wrestled with this problem. Good is what God said when he started reality's largest puppet show. Good is what a thinking universe says about itself when it had no choice to do so in the first place. And, higher consciousness, that's more or less a joke outside of one being. The Universe observing itself after 13billion years or a God. That's the only higher consciousness in the west.

However, if we shift our thinking from this A or B dualism, something amazing happens. God, Spirituality, Science, Love, and Life all have more robust and complicated meanings. There is a sense of free will and possibility if A doesn't lead to B which leads to C. If A can lead to Z and Z sometimes to E, then we experience a world and reality that is neither good nor bad, right nor wrong, or opened or closed. We live in a quantum state where in which an almost infinite number of possibilities may exist. We are neither 1 nor 0, but everything in between. We live in a quantum state within the eastern modes of thought. Dualism serves nothing more, in my opinion, than to create simplistic minds that fail the test that our eyes set before us.

In my mode of thought, being a good person does create higher consciousness. However, don't mistake my good for your good. Good to me is a person who sees this for what it really is...


Life is but a state of mind. None of this is real. In the end, there is but one truth. There is only self. A good person to me is the one that sees beyond the veil of illusion to the truth of the matter. There is only self interacting with self in this ongoing circle of growth. Why? I don't know why. I only know that self does it. That answer is far beyond me and any other limited perspective of self. Self has this weird way about it that encourages a transcendent view, yet "codes" against the view becoming too accurate. My good person sees beyond the illusion and acts accordingly. When your enemy becomes your Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, Lover, and Reflection...then my version of "good" is met.

Don't mistake me for projecting a holier than thou voice. I will rise and I will fall. I will fail and I will succeed. My emotions will get the best of me, my intellect will make me arrogant, and my spirituality will cause disconnect with perception. I am a victim, beneficiary, and creator of all of these eventualities.I will be human, and maybe one day I will be more. However, I am just like you. Asking the same questions, living a very similar life. As you are, so am I. I am no better or worse than anyone else in the objective spiritual sense. We simply "are".

However, who am I to tell one man that his fated model of dualism is wrong. Who am I to tell another to let go of everything he holds dear in life to disintegrate the baggage that he's added to its core of simple "I". That's a lot to ask of a man, or tell a man who has grown up in one system of thought. It's even more to do to convince him that it's right.

As for the next progression of human consciousness...well, I believe self will develop larger containers through the mode of transhumanism and the creation of machine integrated human post evolution. I believe that we'll undergo a fundamental change at that point. I don't think that path is necessary or 100% destructive, it's just the path that this self's go around chose for humanity. You'll see in the next 20 years what I speak of. I don't think it will destroy spirituality either, for that is impossible. Nothing we could do could destroy self. It's almost akin to believing that a role in a play could destroy the actor under the mask. We'll process information more readily, understand emotion more readily, and question the nature of our separation in a more educated fashion. Where it goes from there is anyone's guess.

Objectively, there is no righteous life. There are, however, some roads that reach the mountain top faster than others. However, as the saying goes: One mountain, many paths. But, who's to say that longer path is a less worthy path?

There is much to contemplate with self, no?

to: sparrowstail
The more good you do the more negative you will attract to your self trying to stop you in your path. The more negative you do the more positive to will attract trying to help you on the straight and narrow. It's a ****ed universal law I know but it's the way it is. There are temporary loop holes but cause ripple effects in the after life. If you use religious faith to justify a means to being a better person. Sure fair enough you will be praised and loved by your following brothers and sisters of the religious order until you stuff up. Further more the mentalerty you develop from the religious order can cause boundaries in place in the afterlife of what your willing to accept in turn making your pass over harder with confusion and hezatation. In turn making prolonging your spiritual transendence. My advice is you may need to play dirty. For every positive there is a equal negative. So if you want to carry out positive, you will need to do something negative as well to balance the equation. In the afterlife there is no judgement there is only Understanding and accepting. To understand and accept your mistakes and move on and most of all learn from them. For every action there is a infinite number of choices to it, negative and positive.

Does striving to be a better person, ie. more kind, more compassionate, more generous, more forgiving, more loving, accepting, patient, etc. move us further along the evolutionary line towards something higher and more pure? What is the next progressive step in consciousness for humanity?

Four thousand years ago a leader could stand before his troops and announce, " Today we are going to kill the enemy, destroy there village and take all their women."

Try doing the same thing today.

Mankind has changed and in relation to when one only need look at the Religious spin, that was applied in excuse for conflict by leaders. In terms of evil, the genre in general, implied is that the person thinks he or she consciously wants to do something evil.

When in reality what we have is people who did terrible things because they thought they were doing good.

It is sometimes had to relate to so I will elaborate. Hitler. Stalin and Mao thought they wee doing the correct thing. So did Genghis Khan, Napoleon as well as Emperor Chin. As far as the Vatican, British, Roman, Egyptian, Greek, Mayan, Toltec and Aztec, Chinese, Japanese, Hindu, Moslem, Prussian, Babylonian, Viking and Incan Empires, the leaders firmly believed they were doing the correct thing.

In the days when a British Soldier killed American soldiers, of course both sides demonized each other. And in that context one can understand a referent to evil was necessary to continue conflict.

Any thoughts?

a reply to: sparrowstail

To the thread topic question... No it doesn't, it only leads to being a better person.

Dualism is simply what's on offer in this 'reality' as an experience. It does not exist outside of these 'realities' using that construct.

We really are spiritual beings having a human experience. Coming to understand what that means and how you can work within it, leads to higher consciousness.

Science can currently only lead to a better understanding of the physical 'reality' and how it functions. One day it will discover that awareness is the key to all things, and that we make 'reality' conform to our Consensus Reality that we hold as Factual and Real with our indoctrinated (learned) Beliefs.

originally posted by: Kashai

Does striving to be a better person, ie. more kind, more compassionate, more generous, more forgiving, more loving, accepting, patient, etc. move us further along the evolutionary line towards something higher and more pure? What is the next progressive step in consciousness for humanity?

Four thousand years ago a leader could stand before his troops and announce, " Today we are going to kill the enemy, destroy there village and take all their women."

Try doing the same thing today.

Mankind has changed and in relation to when one only need look at the Religious spin, that was applied in excuse for conflict by leaders. In terms of evil, the genre in general, implied is that the person thinks he or she consciously wants to do something evil.

When in reality what we have is people who did terrible things because they thought they were doing good.

It is sometimes had to relate to so I will elaborate. Hitler. Stalin and Mao thought they wee doing the correct thing. So did Genghis Khan, Napoleon as well as Emperor Chin. As far as the Vatican, British, Roman, Egyptian, Greek, Mayan, Toltec and Aztec, Chinese, Japanese, Hindu, Moslem, Prussian, Babylonian, Viking and Incan Empires, the leaders firmly believed they were doing the correct thing.

In the days when a British Soldier killed American soldiers, of course both sides demonized each other. And in that context one can understand a referent to evil was necessary to continue conflict.

Any thoughts?



I see your point, and yes I believe evil has been done in the name of good. But what about those who dedicate their lives to good? Ghandi, Dali lama, mother Teresa, etc. Were these folks oscilating at a higher frequency in their purity and desire to do good?

a reply to: sparrowstail

"I see your point, and yes I believe evil has been done in the name of good. But what about those who dedicate their lives to good? Gandhi, Dali lama, mother Teresa, etc. Were these folks oscillating at a higher frequency in their purity and desire to do good?" .

They were defined in history as people who never killed or harmed anyone, in relation to attaining their goals in life.

Very Honorable as that is really hard to do.

I admittedly did not read this whole thread, even in it's infancy as it is. I think striving to be anything but what you are/want to be does not lead to a higher consciousness. A "good" person is extremely relative but striving… well I think that may lead to a higher consciousness; just plain old striving no matter your aims means you're putting conscious will (your will) into your life and that I think reveals whatever it is you want to be or is a stepping stone to it… and really if you get down to it "Higher Consciousness" is really vague. When people talked to me at what I currently think was my most cluelessness the confidence in how I displayed it may (along with my intelligence) have convinced others I was on another level… and that type of # as I am now I think is useless. Higher/lower # all that, if you are happy where you are? Be there; If you aren't happy then strive to be different. This "good" person stuff while at the root might lead there is the bumpy road to you just being what you are at the moment content with being -yourself (or so I think).

a reply to: sparrowstail

Being a good person is not a stepping stone to some awsomeness somewhere in this world or the next. Being good really has no reward. Thats kind of the point to the purest most honest expression of good. It also strives to go unnoticed beyond the person the good is being directed to(if at all). Not because being humble is also "good". Rather its good to fly under the radar so as to do more good. Humility and all other "good traits" are just consequences of being a good person.

Honesty in the is the best judge anyways if you are wondering if you are a good person.

As far as higher....anything. Thats just our mortal mind quantifying something so as to wrap our head around something or go insane.

Why cant ultimate exist in most feeble or greatest in most meek? Why does up or over mean BETTER than down or under?

Is there even such a thing as worst worst, or best best?

learning to see everything everywhere and always. Do that first. It should keep you occupied if its "progress" that you want.

"Good" either just makes sense to you or not. Its not a means to a "prize".

Yes.

Suppose a motorist gets cut off and the offended driver develops a dose of road rage. I am behind the offender and notice the outrage. I decide to let the offended driver in ahead of me. He noticed that I noticed him being outraged and he acknowledges my gesture and smiles and shakes his head at buddy A-hole but gives me the wave and carries on. Is it not better for everyone? His rage has now been neutralized by a small gesture. instead of racing after buddy or carrying his rage all day, he is reminded instead of a kind gesture. Isn't this better than racing ahead and reinforcing buddy's negative impression of thoughtless self interested drivers?

Learning to be good suggests that we first learn that we are not so good? We have a duel nature?

originally posted by: Logarock
Learning to be good suggests that we first learn that we are not so good? We have a duel nature?

I guess it presupposes that we have a conscience too. There's always room for improvement isn't there?

a reply to: sparrowstail

Oh sure. Wasn't suggesting we have to feed the dark side or give it room. A real challenge is doing good to those who may never return the kindness to anyone or doing good to those who just flat out don't deserve it. Have you ever noticed some will do good to others but its very conditional and is really part of the good/bad power trip they are on. Its a confliction. They are not really good but capable of good acts, good deeds of a manner. We can avoid this by understanding that we can be blinded to our darker nature by our good works. We may feed a person simply because having to dig their grave is to much work.

a reply to: Logarock

Wise.

a reply to: sparrowstail

Personally, I believe in a dualism; that we can move forward in the physical world through science, and technology, but we also have a spiritual side, as well. A side that needs to be cultivated and perfected. What makes most sense to me is balancing the polarities in our lives and realizing how these polarities between the physical and spiritual effect our lives, desires, and goals.

That duality between science/spiritual is for me an illusion. I was myself non religious and non spiritual before I had a few supernatural experiences and activated my third eye a bit.

It is like when learning to do reiki. The Reiki tool do not need to 100% be like it is taught to work and therefore you can look at it as a kind of superstition built into it. You can with a logical mind pick apart why it works and create your own healing tool that works the same if it has the right parts. The words/symbols are not as important as the meaning of what they represent. The energy/chi flows are important and should be precise.

Quantum entanglement is a very easy to understand if you move away from materialism and science is in fact proving what spiritual people have know for thousands of years.

What is needed is just quantifying of the spiritual realm so that people who are not believing in it can test and prove the reality outside Plato:s cave for themselves.

The religious faith called materialism is what makes some people think there is an opposition between spiritual/science.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Once they realize that doing good does not raise people to a "higher consciousness", but that it affects actual and real people and things in a way that is not only beneficial, but feels good, then doing good will come naturally.

Quantum entanglement is a very easy to understand if you move away from materialism and science is in fact proving what spiritual people have know for thousands of years. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The closer they look, the less they know. That sounds like what spiritual people have known for thousands of years to me—very little.