It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Does striving to be a good person lead to higher consciousness?

page: 3
15
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 13 2014 @ 07:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: sparrowstail

This in no way is meant to ridicule. If it comes across that way, please take me to task and accept my apologies in advance.

What does one mean by "higher consciousness"? Is this the metaphysical form, where you "evolve" you soul via multiple lifetimes and living according to a plan? If so, I get it and no further explanation is needed. If not, please elaborate so I can understand.

Beyond that, striving to be a good person can be a lame cop out. Every sociopath on the planet is always striving to be a better person. Just ask them after they screw up and they'll tell you. The difference is actually being mindful of lifes decisions.

That, once done by habit, will automatically make you a better person. People who are not mindful tend to be selfish without realizing it.

Or, to put it another way: you cannot expect to develop a consciousness without exercising via conscious acts.
Be aware of what you do and that around you, and then act mindfully.

Once you do that, who cares about the rest?


Well, not that long ago the human race were barbarians who raped and pillaged routinely, now we have moved to a different paradigm, one where we have more basic stability and security. One where we rarely miss a meal, or sleep in cold wet conditions. Our health and well being are guaranteed. This all frees up more time to devout oneself to more intellectual pursuits that occupy different parts of the brain, thus changing our frequency of brain activity. Meditation and yoga or tai chi stimulate parts of the brain that we still don't fully understand. Sincerely, there must be more to our potential as thoughtful, peaceful, co-existing creatures than what we've achieved to date. Einstein was pseudo-science when he was creating and explaining his thought experiments. Science can still emerge from an ordinary idea. You sound so confident and sure in your outlook and interpretation of reality as we can limitedly interpret it; with our narrow sense frequency bandwidths and bumbling digits. Bravo
Just being cheeky

edit on 13-5-2014 by sparrowstail because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 13 2014 @ 08:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Kashai

Science is more cumbersome than meditation. What is wrong with science is a very big question but a symbol for the problem might be the history of the number system. At every turn where the number system has become inadequate a new number system has been invented with its own rules to handle issues that the previous system couldn't handle logically.

This brings up philosophical issues. Philosophy itself is a more fundamental way of thinking about persons and their situation, existence in nature.

Meditation is more fundamental than philosophy because it goes to the heart of the matter, revealing mind in its most fundamental expression.

Remember that all knowledge, of whatever sort, is derived from mind in its most fundamental expression. From that, all other mental manifestations flow and all subsidiary knowledge finds its place in the context of the fundamental expression of the mind.



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 08:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: Kashai

Science is more cumbersome than meditation. What is wrong with science is a very big question but a symbol for the problem might be the history of the number system. At every turn where the number system has become inadequate a new number system has been invented with its own rules to handle issues that the previous system couldn't handle logically.

This brings up philosophical issues. Philosophy itself is a more fundamental way of thinking about persons and their situation, existence in nature.

Meditation is more fundamental than philosophy because it goes to the heart of the matter, revealing mind in its most fundamental expression.

Remember that all knowledge, of whatever sort, is derived from mind in its most fundamental expression. From that, all other mental manifestations flow and all subsidiary knowledge finds its place in the context of the fundamental expression of the mind.



Wow, who are you so wise in the ways of science. Seriously like the way you said that.
If we communicated in a way somewhere in between meditatively and philosophically we'd really go places
edit on 13-5-2014 by sparrowstail because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 08:20 PM
link   
a reply to: sparrowstail
Thanks.

If you want some fun pay careful attention and think critically about the various pronouncements of people like Richard Dawkins. Dawkins is a really sincere guy who happens to be stuck as the public face of the "life sciences".

Many of Dawkins' pronouncements don't stand up to rigorous scientific/logical analysis, but he is unaware of this because he mostly preaches to the choir. He's trying to be scientific and mixing it with very ordinary sorts of homespun philosophy that amount to "common sense", but this sort of thing can't be palmed off on people who are rigorous thinkers.

I think Dawkins, and a lot of other people, really ought to meditate under expert guidance, before they attempt to sum it all up. They are presenting an embarassing spectacle in some quarters and are completely unaware of it.



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 08:28 PM
link   
a reply to: ipsedixit
Here is a thought Experiment.

EPR Paradox presents that any two objects created at the same are entangled. Whatever happens to one object has an effect upon the other. So here is an issue does the fact that the brain of person A is thinking good thoughts towards you, have an effect upon everything around you. When a person thinks something about another person there is a quantum effect. Conservative Scientist claim this is incorrect due to Decoherence.

The problem is that it is based upon inductive reasoning and that means several issues are inferred.

A good example of a successful test to a population is in relation to the conclusion that aspirin treats headaches.

edit on 13-5-2014 by Kashai because: Content edit



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 08:35 PM
link   
a reply to: Kashai

Science is definitely interesting, particularly if one enjoys concepts and experiments and reasoning.

Meditation is different. One should get guidance to meditate. It doesn't take too long to catch on to things if one has a qualified teacher.



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 08:38 PM
link   
a reply to: ipsedixit

My first education was with respect to the Taino culture, Caribbean member of an indigenous culture.

Further

Any thoughts?
edit on 13-5-2014 by Kashai because: Content edit



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 09:36 PM
link   
a reply to: Aphorism

You already have the answer to the question of what consciousness is, it's you, it is experience.

How exactly are consciousness and life different? They are both the same thing.



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 09:55 PM
link   
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

There is really no reason in science to objectify a position unless it is the result of a test of a population.

Proof of the existence or not of a phenomenon is based upon deductive reasoning.

Any thoughts?



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 10:06 PM
link   
I think what matters is the energy behind the action.

In other words, being in positive energy, doing good for the positiveness of doing good, simply because it's good.

I don't think enlightenment comes from going through the motions to gain a reward.

What does atheist have to do with this? Atheists are individuals with one thing in common -- lack of believe in a god. Beyond that is the individuals atheist philosophy. What the individual atheist thinks/believes. Which can be anything except belief in a god.

Here is the website for Spiritual Atheist: spiritualatheist.org...



A "Spiritual Atheist" is ANYONE who does not believe in the literal existence of mythical God, but still considers his/her self to be spiritual.



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 10:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Aphorism


Jupiter Scientific's List of The Greatest Unsolved Problems in Science (Please come back periodically as information will be added from time to time)

A lot about the world has been learned during the past few centuries, but some mysteries still remain.

Apparently, Nature has not revealed to us all her secrets but scientists are hard at work trying to decipher them.

On August 28, 1999, National Public Radio's Science Friday program presented some of the greatest unsolved problems in science. Here is Jupiter Scientific's list.

More detailed information will be provided in the coming months, so come back and find out more.


Source



This webpage has been designated as a "cool science site" by the National Academy Press, the publishers of the National Academy of Sciences, the National Academy of Engineering, the Institute of Medicine, and the National Research Council.


Source

Any thoughts?
edit on 13-5-2014 by Kashai because: Content edit



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 01:18 AM
link   
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

People lose consciousness and are still alive.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 01:24 AM
link   
Who will, then, define for us what IS a good person, and tell us where & what exactly IS Higher Consciousness?

Who is high enough to determine what is good?

Would a psychopathic vigilante get to go? Why, or why not?

Humble is as humble does...
Some will know that this discussion is doomed immediately upon embarkation.




edit on 2014141201400000031 by odd1out because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 03:13 AM
link   
a reply to: sparrowstail

Dualism is explainable but you need some imagination and the knowledge that the truth is very difficult to find. We are only searching for it together.

www.evawaseerst.be...



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 07:59 AM
link   

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: ipsedixit

My first education was with respect to the Taino culture, Caribbean member of an indigenous culture.

Any thoughts?


I didn't know anything about them, but I'd heard of the Arawaks. Anthropologists seem to put them in that group, if I'm not mistaken. Theirs' is an aboriginal culture. Ancestor "worship/veneration" is prominent. They have goddesses and gods. The Sun and Moon come out of caves, it says, in a Wikipedia article. Hurricanes are spirit connected. Spirits fly around in the guise of bats that eat fruit at night.

(Note: People who practice Candomble and other African derived spiritual ways refer to the Arawaks as the Caboclos. They are the holders of knowledge of the use of all the medicinal and sacred plants in the forest.)

Variations on this type of thing are found all over the world. This sort of spirituality is age old.

The Buddha was a peculiar fellow. He appeared in a culture that would have been replete with this sort of thing as well as the mainstream Vedic practices but he set out with a specific goal in mind that had nothing to do with relating to his ancestors or with acquiring paranormal powers or with coercing spirits to assist him with his problems.

He wanted to escape the suffering of (re)birth, old age, sickness and death and did so by a process of reductive analysis of mental phenomena. At the end of that road he made an astonishing discovery. It was so subtle that at first he didn't think people would "get it". He tried to communicate it to his recently abandoned companions, who were all "big league yogis", (to put it in a nutshell). They got it.

He continued to pass along what he had learned for the rest of his life and they have been preserving his teachings, erecting monasteries, statues and monuments ever since.

What the Buddha did is of a different order than what is found in the tribal cultures of the world. It is more fundamental. Most religions and cultures are to Buddhism what sports are to science.

Buddhism goes to the essence of what a person is and in doing so clarifies a lot of confusion. One can say that insofar as one can use the mind to know anything, a person who is "enlightened" occupies the high ground that gives an overview of all other human knowledge. A person stabilized in the most profound realization taught by the Buddha is unassailable on the mental level. Such a person is the complete master of all spirits, all spiritual wisdom, all ancestors, all demons and all spiritual mischief. Such a person is completely imperturbable and able to deal with old age, sickness, death and rebirth. That's the Buddha's gift to the world.

Many aspects of this sort of knowledge are available in different spiritual traditions. Many tribal and other spiritual people have great wisdom and some have great power within limits. Some athletes have great power.

Buddhism is different. In the category of being human, it is completely comprehensive.




edit on 14-5-2014 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-5-2014 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-5-2014 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 06:11 PM
link   
In my previous post I referred to an "astonishing discovery" made by the Buddha on his path to his complete Enlightenment. I thought someone might inquire what the astonishing discovery was, but even though nobody did, I wanted to talk about it here, close to my previous post.

This discovery is extremely important and has been remade over and over by people who follow the Buddha's instructions. The discovery is of the "void" nature of the mind. Buddhism has numerous ways of describing the mind such as, void (shunya), empty, without characteristics or markers and sometimes with phrases like "zen mind is no mind".

A Dutch writer spent a year in a Zen Monastery back in the 1960s, trying to find out about Buddhism and life in such a place. (The Empty Mirror: Experiences in a Japanese Zen Monastery, 1971) He didn't solve all of his koans and didn't achieve Enlightenment, but when he left the monastery the Abbott congratulated him on staying as long as he did and gave him a gift. It was one of the sticks that is used by the monks to combat lethargy or sleepiness when meditating. The meditator will signal to a monk whose job it is to walk around at certain intervals carrying one of the sticks, like a yardstick, and smack the meditator on the shoulder if he requests it, to wake him up.

The Abbott of the monastery wrote something on the stick in Japanese and presented it to the writer. The writer wanted to know what was written on the stick and the Abbott said it was a reference to "the empty mirror" and went on to say that when you know the meaning of the empty mirror, when you have experienced the empty mirror, you won't have to worry about meditating anymore.

The Buddha's astonishing discovery was that the mirror is empty.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 06:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: sparrowstail

Well, not that long ago the human race were barbarians who raped and pillaged routinely, now we have moved to a different paradigm, one where we have more basic stability and security. One where we rarely miss a meal, or sleep in cold wet conditions. Our health and well being are guaranteed. This all frees up more time to devout oneself to more intellectual pursuits that occupy different parts of the brain, thus changing our frequency of brain activity. Meditation and yoga or tai chi stimulate parts of the brain that we still don't fully understand. Sincerely, there must be more to our potential as thoughtful, peaceful, co-existing creatures than what we've achieved to date. Einstein was pseudo-science when he was creating and explaining his thought experiments. Science can still emerge from an ordinary idea. You sound so confident and sure in your outlook and interpretation of reality as we can limitedly interpret it; with our narrow sense frequency bandwidths and bumbling digits. Bravo
Just being cheeky


People are still barbaric, and raping women. People are still starving and lacking security. You and I live in a bubble, protected from time and geography by good fortune. Our fortune will end eventually when the bubble pops.

RE: higher powers of the human mind...i am fully behind that. But I am more from the school of Ingo Swann, who believed there were biological basis behind sensory input we call "psi".

I also have very strong Buddhist leanings spiritually, and understand some of the more mystical aspects of that belief system.

So meditation...i can readily agree that it can change brain frequency. Schumann frequencies are well documented, if poorly understood. I can readily agree that Mazlow's Hierarchy indicates that more leisure time is resultant from less work, and results in more time to pursue ones passions. Unfortunately, i will point to Honey Boo-Boo, Miley Cyrus, and Snookie as examples of what people living in our little bubble of auspiciousness choose to fill that leisure time with.

There is a connection to an external mind, in my belief. I can't say what that means, to be honest. But at the end of the day, humans are still humans. When this train goes off the rails, barbarism and hunger will reign over the land once again.

There are yogi's who have spent their entire lives holed up in a dark cave, meditating under sensory deprivation. If you are interested in what extreme meditation can get you, reading up on them may help.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 06:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheOneElectric
There are a few problems in your OP; however, those problems are not bad. They actually open up a new set of philosophical and spiritual questions.

Does striving to be a good person lead to a higher consciousness? That's a difficult question to ask based upon the fact that we are indoctrinated in a western view of thinking that comes to the eventuality of A or B, light or dark, up or down. Maybe, just maybe, people are beginning to see grey. There is another mode of thinking where objects, motives, answers, and questions themselves can be true, false, both true and false, and neither true nor false. It's a new and interesting idea that utilizes mathematics in order to conceptualize eastern philosophy to the extent that it is no longer contradictory mysticism, but an extremely logical mode of thinking

What is good depends on your life experiences in this entire Universe. In a dualist view, we come to an accidental "oh no moment". Whether it be God or Science, the answer comes out to be the same inevitability in Western thought. If a God exists that is omnipotent and exists with omniscience, one beyond space and time, then it necessarily follows that he knows all of your actions and why you will take them. You are locked and loaded from the moment of creation, and you're technically waiting to be that person who goes to heaven or that person who goes to hell due to the way God dictated the universe. You are bound to fate and the universal flow of causality. Our limited understanding of the fundamental forces does us no better here. If we go from the assumption that there was an initial expansion that we like to call the "Big Bang" everything is technically the same, just without the hell and heaven end result. Example: If I knock over a cup, we don't expect it to wobble and then shoot 5000 feet into the air. That's asinine and any toddler can identify why it won't be the case. We are bound by rules of kinetic exchange and energy transfer. So to is the beginning dictating the end in the initial expansion explanation. Those first particles that bounced off of one another dictated where the next would bounce, and so forth. This results in an eventuality of "fate by physics" where from the moment you are born to the moment you die your actions are dictated by the original expansion and how energy diced to bounce off of other forms of energy in a calculable way.
The west = fate
Through science and religion, the west = fate

What is Good when there is only fate? What is higher consciousness, when there is only fate? Why do you ask such question, and why do I attempt to answer? By western standards, it's merely the rules that everything follow. We are in causalities flow, and no matter how complicated we may seem, we are just set rendering of either God or an inert Universe. Good has no meaning because there is obviously no choice. Calvin, Aquinas, Martin Luther, and others of the faith wrestled with this problem. Good is what God said when he started reality's largest puppet show. Good is what a thinking universe says about itself when it had no choice to do so in the first place. And, higher consciousness, that's more or less a joke outside of one being. The Universe observing itself after 13billion years or a God. That's the only higher consciousness in the west.

However, if we shift our thinking from this A or B dualism, something amazing happens. God, Spirituality, Science, Love, and Life all have more robust and complicated meanings. There is a sense of free will and possibility if A doesn't lead to B which leads to C. If A can lead to Z and Z sometimes to E, then we experience a world and reality that is neither good nor bad, right nor wrong, or opened or closed. We live in a quantum state where in which an almost infinite number of possibilities may exist. We are neither 1 nor 0, but everything in between. We live in a quantum state within the eastern modes of thought. Dualism serves nothing more, in my opinion, than to create simplistic minds that fail the test that our eyes set before us.

In my mode of thought, being a good person does create higher consciousness. However, don't mistake my good for your good. Good to me is a person who sees this for what it really is...


Life is but a state of mind. None of this is real. In the end, there is but one truth. There is only self. A good person to me is the one that sees beyond the veil of illusion to the truth of the matter. There is only self interacting with self in this ongoing circle of growth. Why? I don't know why. I only know that self does it. That answer is far beyond me and any other limited perspective of self. Self has this weird way about it that encourages a transcendent view, yet "codes" against the view becoming too accurate. My good person sees beyond the illusion and acts accordingly. When your enemy becomes your Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, Lover, and Reflection...then my version of "good" is met.

Don't mistake me for projecting a holier than thou voice. I will rise and I will fall. I will fail and I will succeed. My emotions will get the best of me, my intellect will make me arrogant, and my spirituality will cause disconnect with perception. I am a victim, beneficiary, and creator of all of these eventualities.I will be human, and maybe one day I will be more. However, I am just like you. Asking the same questions, living a very similar life. As you are, so am I. I am no better or worse than anyone else in the objective spiritual sense. We simply "are".

However, who am I to tell one man that his fated model of dualism is wrong. Who am I to tell another to let go of everything he holds dear in life to disintegrate the baggage that he's added to its core of simple "I". That's a lot to ask of a man, or tell a man who has grown up in one system of thought. It's even more to do to convince him that it's right.

As for the next progression of human consciousness...well, I believe self will develop larger containers through the mode of transhumanism and the creation of machine integrated human post evolution. I believe that we'll undergo a fundamental change at that point. I don't think that path is necessary or 100% destructive, it's just the path that this self's go around chose for humanity. You'll see in the next 20 years what I speak of. I don't think it will destroy spirituality either, for that is impossible. Nothing we could do could destroy self. It's almost akin to believing that a role in a play could destroy the actor under the mask. We'll process information more readily, understand emotion more readily, and question the nature of our separation in a more educated fashion. Where it goes from there is anyone's guess.

Objectively, there is no righteous life. There are, however, some roads that reach the mountain top faster than others. However, as the saying goes: One mountain, many paths. But, who's to say that longer path is a less worthy path?

There is much to contemplate with self, no?

I do not who you are but I like your mind. Well written



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 07:00 PM
link   
a reply to: ipsedixit

Archeologist found Ball courts in Puerto Rico and yes prior to being called the Taino they called themselves the Arawak.

Based upon my teachings prior to that they were known as the Toltec's.

Actually the "Further" offered in my last post links you to the Taino main web page.

The idea that some belief systems are better than others is somewhat alien to me. I really do not see how one can validate such a position, If one does not investigate a system to its natural/fundamental conclusions?

Any thought?



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 07:21 PM
link   
Your "higher consciousness", as you put it, is nothing more than simple comprehension.

Merely the act of understanding is all you need to achieve this "state of being".

To be able to understand the thoughts and intentions of those around you and reflecting on your own thoughts and intentions is more than enough.

You can have a more vast comprehension than the average and be a horrible person; Striving for doing well by others isn't something that will make your more comprehensive to your surroundings. (Although you should still do that anyways)

If you want to expand the understanding of yourself and what part you have in everything around you, the first thing you should do is consciously question your own motives and intentions; Embrace everything that is you, whether you think they are positive or negative things.

I could go on forever about synchronization with one's self and harmonizing with your environment, but it's mostly my own personal beliefs and path to success.







 
15
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join