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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeingYou aren't up to date on the study of Qumran.
He was at Qumran during his missing years . . .
It has now been determined that it was abandoned towards the end of the reign of Herod the Great, so Jesus could not have lived there.
By the time he returned from Egypt, the place would have been empty of any inhabitants.
That was the theory.
Are we speaking AD or BC> at the point of birth or death? Qumran was invaded by the Romans in 72 AD
originally posted by: EviLCHiMP
originally posted by: zardust
The word Mystery or Secret appears 27 times in the Greek NT. 3x9. The word is Musterion and Strong's 1st definition of the word is:
To be granted initiation into the mysteries of heaven is to seek inwardly, to know thy self. The mystery of the seven stars, also known as the seven churches are in reference to the 7 chakras. One cannot just hear this and expect to understand, one must meditate as Jesus did.
Heaven is inside; its within the body as you say. To know thyself is to open the energy centers (chakras) and be able to then speak to the Absolute Unbounded Oneness (which is nothing at the same time everything); hard concepts that western dogmatic practices fail to teach (for a diabolical reason); its easier to listen and read false dogma than to look within to find the truth. I'm not so sure you are evil chimp more enlightened than most. VHB
[I]veteranhumanbeing][/I] Are we speaking AD or BC> at the point of birth or death? Qumran was invaded by the Romans in 72 AD
jmdewey60That was the theory. Now they think that it was actually Herod the Great who moved in on the settlement and put an end to it; that would be around 1 AD, if I remember that right.I got this from Biblical Archaeology Review.
Supposedly Jesus was crucified at 36 AD, so he would have been 12 around 13 AD, 12 years after it was emptied of inhabitants.
. . . at 33 minus 21 at 12 years or 21 years BC; still within the timeframe.
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeingSupposedly Jesus was crucified at 36 AD, so he would have been 12 around 13 AD, 12 years after it was emptied of inhabitants.
. . . at 33 minus 21 at 12 years or 21 years BC; still within the timeframe.
Apparently that didn't happen.
. . . and it was 72 years AD was when the Romans took a swat team look/mentality at the ragged remains of a non-existant colony . . .
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeingApparently that didn't happen.
. . . and it was 72 years AD was when the Romans took a swat team look/mentality at the ragged remains of a non-existant colony . . .
Like I said, it was a theory.
Some "SWAT team" did take it out but it happened a lot earlier than previously thought.
Herod the Great was a very capable military fighter and strategist, how he became called "Great".
He had a habit of squashing anything that even might be an opposition.
Here was this desert community built on criticizing the pet project of Herod, the temple of Jerusalem.
You seem to be confused here between Herod (now get this part, it is important) The GREAT, and Herod Antipas, his son, who was in the gospels as a collaborator with Pilate.
. . . this mouthpiece for the Roman controlled areas around Judea was the one that bettered Pilot?
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeingYou seem to be confused here between Herod (now get this part, it is important) The GREAT, and Herod Antipas, his son, who was in the gospels as a collaborator with Pilate.
. . . this mouthpiece for the Roman controlled areas around Judea was the one that bettered Pilot?
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: zardustNotice how both new names start with the letter P.
I see it a bit differently, the Rock is Peter yes, but that is his new name given to him, in comparison to Simon Bar Jonah, which he calls him just prior. The word Peter means Rock. This is just as Saul to Paul. Saul is the old man, and Paul is the new. Simon is the old man and Peter is the new.
This is significant in the mystery religions in that it (the letter P at the beginning of the name) designates the person as an initiate.
Jesus was possibly recognizing that Simon now understood the mystery, by calling him Peter.
Same thing with Paul, he understood that Jesus was the risen Christ.
What was a mystery then is common knowledge now.
In most Semitic alphabets, the letter resh (and its equivalents) is quite similar to the letter dalet (and its equivalents). In the Syriac alphabet, the letters became so similar that now they are only distinguished by a dot:
The Phoenician letter gave rise to the Greek Rho (Ρ), Etruscan r EtruscanR-01.svg, Latin R, and Cyrillic Р.
Although modern representations of the Chi-Rho sign represent the two lines crossing at ninety degree angles, the early examples of the Chi-Rho cross at an angle that is more vividly representative of the chi formed by the solar ecliptic path and the celestial equator. This image is most familiar in Plato's Timaeus, where it is explained that the two bands which form the "world soul" (anima mundi) cross each other like the letter chi.[7] Not only did the two legs of the chi remind early Christians of the Holy Cross, "it reminded them of the mystery of the pre-existent Christ, the Logos Theou, the Word of God, who extended himself through all things in order to establish peace and harmony in the universe," in Robert Grigg's words.[8]
I think it is a covert use of the Ankh symbol from Egyptian religion.
The rho is a 'P'
I think that's right.
The semitic version of 'R' faced left, when it was transferred to the modern (Greek) the letter faced right.
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: EviLCHiMP
originally posted by: zardust
The word Mystery or Secret appears 27 times in the Greek NT. 3x9. The word is Musterion and Strong's 1st definition of the word is:
To be granted initiation into the mysteries of heaven is to seek inwardly, to know thy self. The mystery of the seven stars, also known as the seven churches are in reference to the 7 chakras. One cannot just hear this and expect to understand, one must meditate as Jesus did.
Heaven is inside; its within the body as you say. To know thyself is to open the energy centers (chakras) and be able to then speak to the Absolute Unbounded Oneness (which is nothing at the same time everything); hard concepts that western dogmatic practices fail to teach (for a diabolical reason); its easier to listen and read false dogma than to look within to find the truth. I'm not so sure you are evil chimp more enlightened than most. VHB
Bless you! Your wisdom is admirable my friend!
Thank you for your kind words.
p 14
There is no shortage of post-resurrection revelation discourses with their descriptions of ascent. The settings are all broadly the same, even though the disciples present vary from one text to another. Eusebius knew that many had received such revelations: ‘Paul... committed nothing to writing but his very short epistles; and yet he had countless unutterable things to say, for he had reached the vision of the third heaven, had been caught up to the divine paradise itself and had been privileged to hear there unspeakable words. Similar experiences were enjoyed by the rest of the Saviour’s pupils the twelve apostles, the seventy disciples and countless others besides’ (History 3.24). What has happened to all these experiences? Was Eusebius was writing fiction at this point, or is there a major element of early Christianity missing from our present understanding of its origins? There is certainly a great difference between how the Christians described their origins in the middle of the fourth century, and how those origins are commonly described today. This older understanding is represented by the post-resurrection texts, even though these may, in their present form, be a later version of that tradition.
p 16
The origin of all these phenomena lies in the secret traditions of the priests, who had been required to guard whatever concerned the altar and what was within the veil (Num.18.7 also LXX Num.3.10). Anyone other than a priest who approached them would die. One of the secrets of the priesthood must have been experiencing theophany, something described in the ancient high priestly blessing: ‘May the LORD make his face/presence shine on you, May the LORD lift up his face/presence upon you’ (Num.6.25-6)62. At the end of the second temple period, this was one of the forbidden texts, which could be read in public but not explained (m.Megillah 4.10). The appearance of the LORD above the ark in the holy of holies had probably been a similar experience, as was John’s experience of the risen LORD with the seven lamps (Rev.1.12-16). The transfiguration was such an experience, when the LORD was seen by the three disciples as a radiant presence, and the experience brought them into a new state of existence63.
originally posted by: zardust
You've hit the nail on the head when you said you just can't believe he rose 3 days later. That is the crux of this discussion. The resurrection is a wholly supernatural event. It is not within "these 4 walls". If it happened, and I think it did, there is no real explanation for it… at least not that our darkened minds(4 walls) can fathom.
That is the point, and I know that I start to sound like a broken record for those who have read my posts, but until we "lose our heads", there won't be "any place for the Son of Man to lay his HEAD". The egoic mind or adamic mind is darkened (crown of thorns), "you who were formerly enemies in mind… be reconciled". "even to this day when the Law is read a veil lies over their minds".
originally posted by: zardustPut on the mind of Christ
Be TRANSFIGURED by the renewing of your mind
Christ is the HEAD of the body (the new jerusalem/bride/new man)
Just as Christ IS so are YOU in the world
originally posted by: zardust
I realize that for the hardcore atheist out there, this will never convince you of anything. But if you believe in anything supernatural, then the resurrection shouldn't be totally out of the question. There are MANY 'problems' with the resurrection for many people. These are often tied up with misconceptions, fables, biases, mistranslations, you know the reason there are 30000 denominations reading from one book. I'm not surprised at all by good people like my friend Utnapistim looking for rational answers, and he might be right, or there may be some other rational answer.
OR the answer is "out there", outside of the boundaries of our matrix (the projected reality of the limited "natural"), the "invisible things" the hyper reality. According to string theory we already exist in more than the 4 dimensions we are "aware" of. I submit you have to suspend rational 4 dimensional thinking to observe the resurrection.
This suspending the rational isn't totally not thinking, but submitting to the Mind of Christ, the very Mind of God. The easterners saw this as "we are one", when you get in tune with the Vibration of the universe. This is the Mind of Christ. This is the resurrection. The rebirth into the Hyper-Reality. Now its "in-part" not the whole (we are coming to the end of the wilderness phase), all creation is still Groaning in Labor pains for the "unveiling of the SONS OF GOD".
originally posted by: zardust
This suspending the rational isn't totally not thinking, but submitting to the Mind of Christ, the very Mind of God. The easterners saw this as "we are one", when you get in tune with the Vibration of the universe. This is the Mind of Christ. This is the resurrection. The rebirth into the Hyper-Reality. Now its "in-part" not the whole (we are coming to the end of the wilderness phase), all creation is still Groaning in Labor pains for the "unveiling of the SONS OF GOD".