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A mass lack of understanding

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posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:48 AM
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GetHyped

demus
neuroscience has everything to do with spirituality.



How?



I didn't know I was obliged to provide definitions or specific details of the "particular brand" of spirituality "I subscribe to."


Because you are the one making concrete claims about spirituality so it would be helpful to know exactly what definition you are working from.


because neuroscience offers ways to provide scientific proof of spiritual practices.




posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:54 AM
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demus

GetHyped

demus
neuroscience has everything to do with spirituality.



How?



I didn't know I was obliged to provide definitions or specific details of the "particular brand" of spirituality "I subscribe to."


Because you are the one making concrete claims about spirituality so it would be helpful to know exactly what definition you are working from.


because neuroscience offers ways to provide scientific proof of spiritual practices.


How? What specific spiritual claims do you believe the field of neuroscience will discover evidence for and how?



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:59 AM
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GetHyped

demus

GetHyped

demus
neuroscience has everything to do with spirituality.



How?



I didn't know I was obliged to provide definitions or specific details of the "particular brand" of spirituality "I subscribe to."


Because you are the one making concrete claims about spirituality so it would be helpful to know exactly what definition you are working from.


because neuroscience offers ways to provide scientific proof of spiritual practices.


How? What specific spiritual claims do you believe the field of neuroscience will discover evidence for and how?


you should define "spiritual claim".

neuroscience is already measuring effects of prayer, meditation, positive thoughts and similar practices so if "spiritual claim" would be that prayer, meditation and similar spiritual practices have real (positive) effect on one's brain than yes, neuroscience already backed that up.

there is a real wealth of knowledge, even if you only want to choose scientific magazines, books and other sources on the spirituality and measuring spirituality.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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demus

you should define "spiritual claim".



Why? I'm not the one making the claims about spirituality being the same as science or that spirituality has been validated by science. I don't even know your working definition of spirituality, despite asking you to clarify. I don't understand why you are so reluctant to clearly state your case.


neuroscience is already measuring effects of prayer, meditation, positive thoughts and similar practices so if "spiritual claim" would be that prayer, meditation and similar spiritual practices have real (positive) effect on one's brain than yes, neuroscience already backed that up.


From a neurological perspective. That is to say "Hey look, when people do things we can see how the brain reacts". That does not in any way mean that the religious/spiritual claims are real. Brain activity when, say, praying is not proof that the Christian god is real. I honestly don't understand how you can conflate the two.


there is a real wealth of knowledge, even if you only want to choose scientific magazines, books and other sources on the spirituality and measuring spirituality.


What is "spirituality"? What specific claims have been measured? I sincerely don't know how many times I can keep asking this question.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 



my 2 cents...people cannot handle the idea that when you die, that's it, nothing else, no more of anything. the brain functions by the interactions of small electrical signals. when you die, these signals cease to function (turn off), much like a light switch on your wall... - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Your opinion, you mean. Yes, here ya go: 2 cents.

I can handle it, it just hasn't been proven, and there is lots of evidence that it's not true. So, it's more that I don't handle that notion without serious doubts.
Just my own 2 cents that I already gave you. Consider it a bribe to open your mind.

We don't know everything yet. Certainly not much about the spirit. One of our members, however, has spoken about data compiled by classified projects that indicate with infrared light one can see the spirit leaving the body.

Unfortunately, when pressed, she said she was not at liberty to divulge her sources; nevertheless, she was quite convincing.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by GetHyped
 





To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 11:42 AM
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demus
reply to post by GetHyped
 


To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.



To confine our attention to non sequiturs would be to limit intelligent discussion.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:04 PM
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GetHyped

demus
reply to post by GetHyped
 


To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.



To confine our attention to non sequiturs would be to limit intelligent discussion.


would you say you somewhat agree with the quote presented?



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by GetHyped
 


I didn't say that science will offer proof for any spiritual claim so I don't know why you have mentioned "Christian God".

I believe science will in the future be able to explain what spirituality is and explain "spiritual claims", not prove any "spiritual claim".



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by ScottProphhit
 


Agreed, they are one and the same.
Science expands upon the expression of the spiritual.
One is cause One is effect.
One is within One is outside.
One is spiritual One is material.

Two sides to the same coin.
Ultimately there is One



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by GetHyped
 



What physical properties of spirituality do you propose can be scientifically measured and how?

According to you there are none, yet… right? My point was directed at the "doesn't exist" part.

We can't see, hear or touch radio signals either. How many epochs passed before we "discovered" not only radio but the whole electromagnetic spectrum? How wide is that spectrum? Are there more as yet undiscovered spectrums?

Thats my yard stick.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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Sorry, double post.
edit on 5-4-2014 by intrptr because: deleted



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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GetHyped
reply to post by intrptr
 


What physical properties of spirituality do you propose can be scientifically measured and how?


Maybe your spiritual eye is small but anything to do with science has to be spiritual, what can't be scientifically measured? The only thing stopping you from being pure light is mass. So what are you then, are you the mass or the light?



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:51 PM
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JokerThe1st
reply to post by ScottProphhit
 


Agreed, they are one and the same.
Science expands upon the expression of the spiritual.
One is cause One is effect.
One is within One is outside.
One is spiritual One is material.

Two sides to the same coin.
Ultimately there is One


of course.
many scientists agree from their own view point with what you've just said.



Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
Carl Sagan

(the quote I posted before is from Steven Hawking)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:51 PM
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double, please delete.
edit on 5-4-2014 by demus because: doubling doublings



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 02:41 PM
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When science and spirituality are discussed, I always think of Arthur C. Clarke's 3rd law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

That very well may be our case when dealing with reality as a whole.

I honestly believe science will unlock most if not all the answers hidden in our Universe. Will it be tied into a creator? I honestly feel it is very arrogant for us humans to even begin to think we can grasp our minds around what reality is, let alone who may of created it. But if our Universe was created by a sentient being, I will be willing to wager a lot that science was used to accomplish the goal.

I also love Clarke's first and second law:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

Very interesting food for thought Op.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 03:41 PM
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Spirituality does, as most words, not have a clear definition between people.
One would be to label anything that is not officially acknowledged as spiritual. *points to above post about magic*
Another is to spiritually rise ones mind and thereby becoming aware of everything around and in oneself, not having limitations in any "talent" or any other mind prisons and finding the true goal in life.
Yet another definition is to improve your balance of social pains, like chest pressure, throat pressure etc. I won't mention the spiritual equals - otherwise blindness to my words would come into effect.
And another is to gain senses that you already have and ignore.
And a last one: to have to do with invisible worlds by doing any practices, may it be research, using devices, natural tricks or rituals.
These are all combinable unlike the misleading definition of it being "religion".

I know the analysis guys of you are stuck in misunderstanding and overlooking these things, but its a serious matter in life and there are obvious steps where the world suddenly looks completely different - your view is an illusion and causes you to do a lot of harm and makes you controllable!

I am one who understood spirituality the analysis way and could describe nearly anything from it. The word "scientific" is bound with wrong school theories (claims) in too many ways, so I won't use it.

Over here in the EU it's not any better. Never heard of anyone getting into spirituality or understanding what it is, neither coming very far using the analysis way. The "Hey, I'll be a Buddhist and meditate" cliche won't help much - looks like religion - and neither helps the east.
If more people were enlightened, we'd be back down to 3 minutes work each day in no time

edit on 5-4-2014 by oneoneone because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by ScottProphhit
 


This is an interesting topic. Often times there's such a divide between the science minded and spiritual minded. I can definitely see a correlation between the two. The universe was created in the Big Bang, but what caused the Big Bang? I like to think our Creator did


Carl Sagan had some interesting ideas on the same subject.


“Spirit” comes from the Latin word “to breathe.” What we breathe is air, which is certainly matter, however thin. Despite usage to the contrary, there is no necessary implication in the word “spiritual” that we are talking of anything other than matter (including the matter of which the brain is made), or anything outside the realm of science. On occasion, I will feel free to use the word. Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or of acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.

Carl Sagan on Science and Spirituality
edit on 5-4-2014 by Jennyfrenzy because: spacing



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by Jennyfrenzy
 


not only Carl Sagan but many other important and well known scientists and great people are saying the same thing.

"everything is everything is everything."

it took me years to figure out that meaningful quote and when I did; my understanding of the world has changed forever.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 07:24 AM
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demus
reply to post by Jennyfrenzy
 



"everything is everything is everything."

it took me years to figure out that meaningful quote and when I did; my understanding of the world has changed forever.


My physics teacher would have slappped you if you tried to push this nonsense in his class. Do you have any formal training in science at all? Are you familiar with any of the models of the physical world?

Everything is everything is everything? Somebody go to the closet and give this fella a nobel prize, he just came up with the theory of everything.

And its so simple and elegant.



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