Women No Longer Care

Tylerdurden1
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

That wasnt my intentions at all. Its just that when women go all crazy on gender equality they tend to seek out males that agree with them more, instead of someone who had thier own ideas and can still be an individual. Im not attacking anyone, and if it came off that way Im sorry.

I dont know you or your SO, Im just saying that maintaining a role in a relationship is hard when it comes to gender equality, and some feminists (not you) tend to alienate their partners/love interests/crushes..ect, by doing so.

Ok but here is the thing. The person responding to me earlier can pretend they know my mind all they want...but my thoughts on gender equality ARE original but then what is really original? Fancy's comments are not original. Nothing is original anymore. They only thing that seperates people from being a fraud is genuine consideration and belief in their cause or ideal or whatever you want to call it.

Now Fancy will disagree with me and that's fine. I literally don't lose an ounce of sleep over what he thinks. My comments here, while argumentative and at times aggressive (and I will "man up" and apologize for going too far) are 100% genuine. This was exactly what I was getting at in my first post in here. The second I talk about gender equality I get this bull crap that I got here. I am used to it -shrug- and it won't be believed because...well it's ATS and the internet but my feelings are 100% me

But regardless, the other issue I have (and this isn't directed at you Tyler) is that Feminism...true feminism is exactly about equality and no more. So-called feminazis are not feminists. A real feminist (male or female) wants nothing more than to bridge the powr gap and have equal potential and oppurtunity. That's what I believe in

The reason my first few posts were so aggressive is because it is my belief that we live in a society that fights back and tries to keep women from being equal

so yes I am sorry if I got aggressive...but it's my belief

reply to post by KyoZero

. This was exactly what I was getting at in my first post in here. The second I talk about gender equality I get this bull crap that I got here. I am used to it -shrug- and it won't be believed because...well it's ATS and the internet but my feelings are 100% me

Because it is not something a man has to talk about, it's how you act. Why do you have to focus on something that is a given, and goes without saying. Where I am from there are no issues. I never had problems with girls saying "you don't care about my equality", never heard any women complain about such things in general.

It's being blown out of proportion and when I see a guy do his best to highlight a non issue to the ladies I think he is full of it.

Again, I ask you, who are the "others" you have to constantly prove yourself to? This statement caused the most confusion to me, maybe you can explain.

And what kind of scenarios do you encounter where females are treated unequally or unfair in the Western world, where you as a married man must intervene, or feel insulted? Gimme a break.

What have we got here, some gals complaining getting hit on by men, barely able to hide their pride.

Get real.

I don't know why this could be such an issue to you when even the women in here aren't even that passionate about their "equallity".

reply to post by Tylerdurden1


Thanks for the clarification. It's much appreciated.

I think part of the problem is that men do think that, because we can vote or opt to work, that the issues with inequality are over. The problem is that they really aren't. My sister was an exec at a large bank and ended up resigning because her direct superior was sexually harassing her and ordering her to get coffee for executive meetings because she was the only female executive. That was just a few years ago and just one of the aspects. I'm a female gamer and for me, sexual harassment and misogyny have been a huge part of the whole gaming experience. It's just video games but it's really remarkable what happens even in something where there is a decades long or even thousands of years long established stereotype. Online gaming has really only been going on for maybe 16-17 years.

I have been a writer for gaming sites off and on for over a decade. When the issue of sexism in gaming came up a good 16 years ago, I decided to run a little experiment. I basically made my nickname completely gender neutral and started playing regularly on a server. I was well liked, other players would readily greet me and the worst thing that anybody ever said was "oh god, so in so is on the opposite team...time to lose " . After two weeks, I used voice comms for the first time while the server was filled with regulars and the chat virtually exploded. Almost the entire server sexually harassed me ranging from the "hey baby" no big deal stuff to threats of rape. It was pretty nasty and shocking. However, that was 16 years ago and even the gaming community has improved to the point where those who would respond to a female gamer in the latter way tend to get banned by the other players on the server. That is a huge improvement.

When a newer version of the same game came out, I gained a lot notoriety in the community as I was one of the first champions in the game (was a pro gamer at the time) as was my fiance. During our championship match, which was broadcast on the G4 channel, there was a point where the "camera" was on me and the healing class within the game made a point of ignoring my calls for assistance. It was heavily noted afterwards as the camera had followed me up to the point of having to obliterate myself to assure the winning point. A lot of people, both friends and strangers, noted the entire event. That kind of thing was normal to me up til that point and I started noticing it more and more. Felt paranoid about it so it was time for another test. This time, I counted the number of times I was healed on a public server where everybody knew who I was and I had many friends on. New account, new gender neutral name and my own friends who played that same class were suddenly sticking to me like flies on flypaper. The number of heals that I received tripled. That was depressing. I had a headset that had a voice morphing capabilities so I tinkered with it and ended up sounding like a flaming Buffalo Bill, which gave me the idea to really put it to the test. Using the voice morpher, I started actually flirting and harassing my healers. Despite voicing a whole lot of discomfort, they still stuck with me. So even a perceived flaming and sexually harassing male creep got more heals than I did...from my own friends. I actually cried. Sure, even in something as insignificant as a game, a lot of guys will not tolerate extreme harassment but there is still an underlying misogyny going on that has its effects. As just me playing as me, I'd get maybe a 3:1 kill per death ratio. Me getting healed, my kpd skyrockets to as high as 25:1, which actually affects the outcome of the game. Even if my team would be losing, I was still ignored in lieu of other players.

Now some might argue that maybe my friends didn't actually really like me but that would be untrue. I cannot even count how many friends of mine actually admitted that, as much as they loved me and thought I was an amazingly cool person, the fact that I kicked their butts at a video game and as a female brought out the worst in them. They could get obliterated by my fiance over and over again and they were cool with that....but not me. One of the things that I hear in games is that it must be nice to be a female gamer because of all the attention and guys wanting to do things for you. It's absolutely untrue but maybe if you're a female who sucks at the game. If you're a female champ at it, you face varying levels of hate even from the most unexpected quarters. I've had friends confess to me on their own volition that knowing and playing with me brought to light their own misogyny.

Is that really equal? If that kind of thing goes on in something as insignificant as a video game where the stereotypes are relatively new, what goes on in the real world? When you have thousands and thousands women complaining about specific things, what gives men the right to say that we're not telling the truth? Look at FancyName. He's absolutely certain that any woman complaining about getting hit on is lying. From a male perspective, it's not easy knowing what it is like to be a woman or even how a woman thinks or feels. In that case, if women are saying that problems still exist, then maybe they do still exist. I've seen it in something as irrelevant as a video game. My sister has experienced it as a CFO.

reply to post by FancyName


My feathers really aren't ruffled by you in particular or anything that you've said either, FancyName. Like I said already, you're a Prince among men. There are certain character traits and personality types that actually negate the empathy within me. The fact that you're continuing to try to bait me on this is pretty obvious and at this point, it's like beating a dead horse.

If you'd like to continue on with this line of conversation and more while traipsing closer and closer to breaking the T&C, be my guest.

reply to post by WhiteAlice

I'm a female gamer and for me, sexual harassment and misogyny have been a huge part of the whole gaming experience. It's just video games but it's really remarkable what happens even in something where there is a decades long or even thousands of years long established stereotype. Online gaming has really only been going on for maybe 16-17 years.

That's also the average age of the people you encounter in that world. Get real.

I have been a writer for gaming sites off and on for over a decade. When the issue of sexism in gaming came up a good 16 years ago, I decided to run a little experiment. I basically made my nickname completely gender neutral and started playing regularly on a server. I was well liked, other players would readily greet me and the worst thing that anybody ever said was "oh god, so in so is on the opposite team...time to lose " . After two weeks, I used voice comms for the first time while the server was filled with regulars and the chat virtually exploded. Almost the entire server sexually harassed me ranging from the "hey baby" no big deal stuff to threats of rape. It was pretty nasty and shocking. However, that was 16 years ago and even the gaming community has improved to the point where those who would respond to a female gamer in the latter way tend to get banned by the other players on the server. That is a huge improvement.

What do you expect from, what was then, a crowd of nerdy teenage virgins. You are talking about kids, not men. Do you have any real life examples for yourself or is it all simply based on random strangers shouting stuff through a mic in an online game?

Get real.

My sister was an exec at a large bank and ended up resigning because her direct superior was sexually harassing her and ordering her to get coffee for executive meetings because she was the only female executive.

Did she sue him?


There is much more I want to say based on your last post, or rather, latest released episode of your life, but I guess imma let it go, there is nothing I can say that will paint the picture clearer than your own words.

reply to post by WhiteAlice

My feathers really aren't ruffled by you in particular or anything that you've said either, FancyName. Like I said already, you're a Prince among men. There are certain character traits and personality types that actually negate the empathy within me.

Do a lot of people have those?

I do remember you saying that people used to call you "ice queen", these are your own words, right?

And if I'm gonna be royal, call me King.

FancyName
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

Do you have any real life examples for yourself or is it all simply based on random strangers shouting stuff through a mic in an online game?

Get real.

There is much more I want to say based on your last post, or rather, latest released episode of your life, but I guess imma let it go, there is nothing I can say that will paint the picture clearer than your own words.

Irony: To be asked for real life examples (already provided) and then, issuing a complaint about real life examples already given.

It's so nice to see so many women's strength and courage come forth here.

"Strength in women has always been tricky. What's wonderful about being a woman in the 21st century is that we can be strong and feminine. But that's a nuance that a lot of people can't interpret yet.

The problem is not that misogyny exists. It's that so many women are complicit in it. Before you can expect someone else to respect your strength, you must own it yourself. There's no question that a lot of men - but also women - will read confident, independent women - as a threat. Rather than a social good."

www.linkedin.com...

reply to post by KyoZero


I respect your beliefs as well. Im not trying to say your less masculine or anything. My point is when you start to be truly equal you sort of lose your identity. My opinion is that is a bad thing. Its what sets you apart in a relationship. If that makes sense.

reply to post by Tylerdurden1


understood. And while I may not agree about loss of identity I thank you for your response Tyler. I appreciate you taking the time.

Tylerdurden1
reply to post by KyoZero

 

I respect your beliefs as well. Im not trying to say your less masculine or anything. My point is when you start to be truly equal you sort of lose your identity. My opinion is that is a bad thing. Its what sets you apart in a relationship. If that makes sense.

This is a really interesting thought to me, Tyler. How does being truly equal cause a loss of identity? From my perspective, being truly equal, in terms of a relationship at least, would mean that each person is both given an opportunity to express and respect for their life choices by their partner. I totally agree that people who have compatible opinions should be together and those who don't should really reconsider because it probably will become a problem later. Kind of like a woman who doesn't want to have children hooking up with a guy that wants a dozen, lol. The thing is, I'd argue that if there is a loss of identity in a relationship, it's not so much that there is an inequity going on but more of a fatal compatibility issue.

Am I getting what you're trying to say?

reply to post by WhiteAlice


I see where you are coming from on that. If some of those people see a female gamer they tend to flip out! Then all maners go out the window, and they make asses out of themselves.

On the other hand that is a more extreem gender issue IMHO. Most people act that way in those forums, get them in "real life" they tend to chill out. Or not, I suppose it boils down to the person I guess.

Gender equality in this country still has a way to go, but it goes both ways. So I guess both sexes have to comprimise a bit in a way.

reply to post by WhiteAlice

Irony: To be asked for real life examples (already provided) and then, issuing a complaint about real life examples already given.

An online game lobby is not real life.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


I will try to make sense of what I said ..LOL. When you are truly equal, on the same playing field, I guess I would fell like less of a man, if I didnt get to do some man things. Like opening a jar or bringing home the bacon...so to speak.

When you are equal in a relationship, I feel like I would get to do less man things...I hope that made sense!

Tylerdurden1
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

I will try to make sense of what I said ..LOL. When you are truly equal, on the same playing field, I guess I would fell like less of a man, if I didnt get to do some man things. Like opening a jar or bringing home the bacon...so to speak.

When you are equal in a relationship, I feel like I would get to do less man things...I hope that made sense!

Does the emasculation through equality include nuturing and looking after your children's needs?

reply to post by InTheLight

Does the emasculation through equality include nuturing and looking after your children's needs?

Can I deduct that nurturing and looking after kids' needs is a non masculine trait according to you?

reply to post by Tylerdurden1


Thanks for getting it. I do think that online interactions do magnify certain behavior traits within people because of the guise of anonymity. I don't think it's necessarily so much that they are acting out because they can. I honestly think that they basically get to be who they actually are without neighborly judgment or rebuke so it essentially acts as an indicator for one's true colors. Not all the time but definitely in those who tend to persistently disregard the reality that they are still interacting with human beings online. Online or off, we're all human beings.

I will try to make sense of what I said ..LOL. When you are truly equal, on the same playing field, I guess I would fell like less of a man, if I didnt get to do some man things. Like opening a jar or bringing home the bacon...so to speak.

When you are equal in a relationship, I feel like I would get to do less man things...I hope that made sense!

It does. We all want to feel needed by our significant others. If my fiance didn't come to me for comfort and affection after a bad day, I'd be worried. Majority of the time it's all about wanting to be with that other person but a small portion still needs to be needed for something. I think that any time where one party is basically having their wants or needs being totally trumped by another as a very unequal relationship. Basically, if a wife's idea of a good life entails having a man who brings home the bacon and her man prefers that, then more power to them both as they are both happy in their identities. If a wife wants to have a career and her husband wants her at home, then technically her identity is being damaged in lieu of his if she complies. Ideally, people's desires in life should be compatible and when it's not, some compromise should be given. If somebody is feeling like their being walked all over and unable to be themselves, then that is where it becomes a problem because either sex is going to suffer from that identity loss. Does make sense?

reply to post by InTheLight


Of course not. I would sacrifice everything, for the needs of my child (dont have them yet, just got maried a few weeks agao), that includes my job, and my man card!..LOL

FancyName
reply to post by InTheLight

 

Does the emasculation through equality include nuturing and looking after your children's needs?

Can I deduct that nurturing and looking after kids' needs is a non masculine trait according to you?

I was asking a question to a specific poster as per information received from that poster.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


You nailed it! You said exactly what I wanted to...I just suck at it!

That was the point of my original post!