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Originally posted by devilwasp
Its only murder if you think it is, your backing away from the issue.
Are you willing to enforce your laws, opinions and beleifs on someone else?
I could call a soldier a murderer , does that mean I should try and force my beliefs on them?
I could call doctors murderers because they sometimes must let a patient die, does that mean I should force my beleifs on them?
No, we have NO right, repeat NO right to define how a person should live.
Originally posted by Croat56
Its only murder if I think it is? Thats funny. I should just go out and shoot a person in the head right now and when the cop comes Ill just say I didnt think it was murder. Im sure the cop would let me go.
If we dont have the right to tell a person how to live, then no one should be in jail. They want to steal, its their decision its their life why should we throw them in jail? Why should America have invaded Iraq? Why should any1 have stopped Hitler from exterminating the jews? Its how he wanted to live.
Originally posted by Croat56
Tell me how a heartbeat is not a human life?
Originally posted by devilwasp
Originally posted by Croat56
Tell me how a heartbeat is not a human life?
Because animals and mamals have heartbeats.....do you call a dolphin human?
Originally posted by Croat56
Uh a human heartbeat.
We have the right, nay the responsibility to do whatever we can to save a human life. To stop murder and other wrong doings
Originally posted by drogo
you know i am sick at hearing about "the women's rights" on this issue. yes the woman does have a rights. they have the "right" to not have sex, the "right" to use birth controll (and there are so many differt types available). if a woman does not WANT a child there are many options available to use. why should an innocent life be MURDERED? and that is EXACTLY what an ABORTION is.
if a woman does not want to have a child, then why is she haveing sex? or sex without birth controll? ok every once in awhile bith conrtroll fails, well it can happen. just like you can get shot playing russian roulette. what is the BEST method to avoid getting shot while playing russion roulette? easy choose NOT TO PLAY. that is your choice.
now is the point of bringing rape into the picture. "well what if the woman is raped, why should she have to suffer a child born of it?" well rape is a very unfortunate occurance. the answer is simple if you realy don't want the child, put it up for adoption. there are many men and women who would love to have that child. they want one so much that there is even an "illigal" baby smuggleing ring. many people have to go to forin countries to find a baby to adopt. and if (i do understand that they do not always capture rapists), they catch the person then they should have to compensate you for your "suffering". this might even be a deturant for rapes. make them pay literaly for their crimes.
a question was asked about pro-lifers and their views on the death penalty. well i have to say that yes it CAN be a good thing. but for the most point i an against it due to the fact that many people COULD be innocent of their supposed crimes. i have been falsely acused of things many times, i have even been set up for things. i have on several ocasions come close to an arrest for things i did not do, therefore i am very leary of those found guilty. i have been through the torture of interogations so i know that even a "confession" could be very easily gotten from an innocent person. they realy try hard to get you to confess to what "they" think you have done.
you know if you follow the logic used for most abortions, we would be able to kill anyone who might be an inconveniance to us. oh i can't afford my kids so instead of makeing them suffere i put them out of their misory, isn't this best for them? they wouldn't have to suffer. oh i wasn't able to spend the time i should have with johny my career got in the way, he was just such an inconveniance, well he's not now he won't have to take up needed time now he's dead. both of these "mothers" would have committed murder wouldn't they?
most women's reasons for an abortion are very selfish in nature. they want all the pleasure of sex but when it happens they murder their babies just because they would be aninconveiniance to them. well they could have used multiple forms of "protection" or even not had sex to begin with. there is no need to murder someone because of the mistakes that "they"made. the baby has done nothing to deserve death. so why do we alow them to get "the death penalty" because of what the parrents did?
yes there are two people involved in makeing a baby. both parrents have a resposibility to a child. it is especialy sad and criminal, when a father is willing to take the child, but o no the mother dosn't want to carry this inconveinance. lets face it when abortions are permitted, we are santioning the murder of another human being, just because a mother is selfish. there are people willing to take that unwanted bundle of joy.
someone mentioned that if a mother trys to commit suicide, should she be charged with attempted murder? yes they should be, they are not only ending their life but also murdering someone else. this is a murder suicide attempt. just as when a parrent kills her children and then themselves. there is no differance.
one other thing occurs to me. there have been cases where an adoption has been set up dureing a pregnancy, as well as those who will cary a child for someone who is unable to concieve. interestingl;y enough some of those after delivering the child decide that even though they didn't want a child of their own, that they do not want to give it up. interesting. just think that in some of these cases that the child would have been killed off. if that dosn't say abortion is wrong, what will.
to finish off. if you do not want kids. don't have sex. if you do have sex take all precautions. if you still end up pregnate, then you have gambled and lost. this is no excuse for murdering someone else. for those children who end up pregnate. well reap what you have sown. and i mean BOTH the mother and father. after alll it take two to make a child so you both have equil responsibility for their mistakes. why should someone else die just because of the selfishness of someone else. remember always when you have an abortion you are killing someone. this is murder. a baby is not some inanimate object but a human life. i am sure that you would not want me to kill you just because i think that you will possibly be an inconveniance to me.
Originally posted by devilwasp
Originally posted by Croat56
Uh a human heartbeat.
Human heart beats are very similar to animal heartbeats.
We have the right, nay the responsibility to do whatever we can to save a human life. To stop murder and other wrong doings
Then we should stop wars.
If we have the "responsibility" to stop all wrong doings then why do we have an army?
Originally posted by Croat56
Humans are more important than animals Some wars are necessary to fight. If America did join the allies in ww2 then Germany or Japan would have inevitably taken over the world. If a soldier has to kill then what can I say you have to. And yes you should do all you can to stop all wars.
Now come on respect all life for goodness sakes. Im sure when you were still unborn you wouldnt have wanted to have been killed.
Originally posted by drogo
you know i am sick at hearing about "the women's rights" on this issue.
if a woman does not want to have a child, then why is she haveing sex? or sex without birth controll? ok every once in awhile bith conrtroll fails, well it can happen. just like you can get shot playing russian roulette. what is the BEST method to avoid getting shot while playing russion roulette? easy choose NOT TO PLAY. that is your choice.
they catch the person then they should have to compensate you for your "suffering". this might even be a deturant for rapes. make them pay literaly for their crimes.
i love the fact that some people call an unborn baby a "parasite", everyone has been through this stage in life. i do not understand how they can feel this way. a parasite is a forin creature that feeds or lives off of a host creature. a baby is NOT a parisite it was "created" by the host, it has not "invaded". it is a part of our natual life cycle.
there are people willing to take that unwanted bundle of joy.
Originally posted by Croat56
Tell me how a heartbeat is not a human life?
Originally posted by Croat56
I #ing hate that Goddam choice arguement.
NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE TO COMMIT MURDER. IT IS MURDER. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY IT IS MURDER. NOTHING YOU CAN DO OR SAY WILL CHANGE THAT. MURDER IS MURDER NO MATTER HOW SMALL THE PERSON IS.
Originally posted by kastinyque
So you beleive that two deaths would be better than one? Because by doing away with legal safe abortions your sentencing many women who are desperate not to have a child to death. There have always been ways to abort a pregnancy, it has been practiced for ages by midwives and herbologists, but the alternate ways of doing so is dangerous to the woman as well as the fetus. I agree completly that abortions are abused and highly overused , but to do away with it completly isn't practicle.
Originally posted by Croat56
I dont need my religion to tell me that murder of all kind is wrong. Why is it you assume its because im religiouse?
Do sperm have any rights?
Do they? I mean they should right? They are a potential human being after all. I dont understand how ppl can just kill them with like spermacide and think its completely ok. Shouldnt they get some rights? If animals have rights shouldnt they? They are living things afterall. I know that b4 they make it to the egg they arent yet a person, but isnt it kind of unfair and cruel to just kill them without any hope? I know that billions of them die each day, but still. I dont think its as bad as abortion, but should they have any rights?
Who are you to determine if a sperm has a right to impregnate a woman? Whatever happened to the woman's say? Besides, don't 299,999 of the 300,000 sperm die anyway, even with conception?
Hey half a person is better then none
I dont mean like naturally dieing out, I mean being purposely killed so they do not have a chance to impregnate a women.
Hey who are we to deny someone the right to live? *Cough Terry Schiavo Cough*
So have a lot of people. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Mormos, just to name a few, have all done things that are immoral in the eyes of other people's religions. The Spanish Inquision, the Crusades, and the Mormons establishing their religious base out of Utah. I can cite several books if you'd like.
You mean the ancient romans? Nah they did things that were immoral and unrespectful.
See above.
The romans killed Jesus. They had rituals and events that were horrible!
- this is just a simple case of being totally misinformed and only hearing what you want to hear.
A parasite? A PARASITE? HOW THE CAN YOU CALL A HUMAN LIFE A PARASITE? THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS. SO WHAT IF THEY CANT SURVIVE ON THEIR OWN YET? OF COURSE THEY CANT THEYRE NOT FULLY GROWN YET. EVERY1 NEEDS THOSE 9 MONTHS BEING IN THERE TO GROW. WE MIGHT AS WELL CALL CHILDREN A PARASITE. THEY CANT SURVIVE ON THEIR OWN, THEIR NOT FULLY GROWN. HELL WHY NOT JUST KILL CHILDREN UNDER 10? ITS THE SAME DAM THING.
Funny how you attack me.
oh and james nice to see your still losing the battle against ignorance.
Any other lifeforms you'd like to attack? Elephants have been known to kill on occasion, and not eat their kills. Isn't that immoral too? You've just insulted every member of the human race. Thank you. Love you too.
This is exactly what is wrong with the human race. No value of life at all. Makes me ashamed to be human sometimes.
I dont think any1 should have the choice to commit murder. These pro abortionists are hiding behind the its a choice notion. Its murder. No one should have that choice. Not you not me not ANYONE.
Its only murder if I think it is? Thats funny. I should just go out and shoot a person in the head right now and when the cop comes Ill just say I didnt think it was murder. Im sure the cop would let me go. If we dont have the right to tell a person how to live, then no one should be in jail. They want to steal, its their decision its their life why should we throw them in jail? Why should America have invaded Iraq? Why should any1 have stopped Hitler from exterminating the jews? Its how he wanted to live
Thats not the issue here. Why is it you think murdering innocent children is okay? You are trying to divert the attention away from murder and make it into a religiouse arguement. All I see is your insecurity, maybe guilt?
Originally posted by Croat56
I #ing hate that Goddam choice arguement. NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE TO COMMIT MURDER. IT IS MURDER. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY IT IS MURDER. NOTHING YOU CAN DO OR SAY WILL CHANGE THAT. MURDER IS MURDER NO MATTER HOW SMALL THE PERSON IS.
Originally posted by Croat56
I dont need my religion to tell me that murder of all kind is wrong. Why is it you assume its because im religiouse? Funny how you attack me. Thats not the issue here. Why is it you think murdering innocent children is okay? You are trying to divert the attention away from murder and make it into a religiouse arguement. All I see is your insecurity, maybe guilt?
[edit on 5/3/2005 by Croat56]
Originally posted by drogo
so what you are saying in essince is. that since people will do this anyway then it should be legal so that they don't have a risk of getting killed themselves?
interesting logic. following this logic the spousal killing should be legal. many people do this anyway and it can lead to their deaths as well. also following this logic, drugs like herowin should be handed out for free as it would save the lives of many who get killed because drugs are improperly cut and then cause the useres deaths, and the free part would stop all those killed over money to buy said drugs.