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A Conversation About Abortion you need to read!

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posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Amelia

Originally posted by edsinger
If my daughter was a minor then she would not have one.

Like you can control that...what if she have sex with a guy and the condom brake and...uh oh she is pregnant and she is like "minor"
You can't live her life....and no one is SURE that their daughter won't do that

Enough for me on this thread...gives me headache

Amelia


As a minor she can not have an abortion without parental consent, and that is the law.




posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 03:43 PM
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I think in Aus abortions are carried out in the 1st trimester, and after that, they are only done on medical grounds, but don't quote me on that, I don't know for a fact. I agree if the feotus is past the 1st trimester and needs to be injected to be killed, there is something very sickening about that.

Noone answered my earlier questions as to whether the Pill and IUD, etc are also considered morally not ok ... do you view it differently while the life is still in its embryonic stage?


[edit on 3-12-2004 by c_au]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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I will try to answer your other questions, the Catholic Church deems birth Control wrong, it prevents conception but so does 'pulling out' and I think we all have done that.

It is the thought that conception takes place and then you want to kill it. that so sickens me.

I knew both nights I got my wife pregnant and even told her the sex of each child....luck?......probably.

The Church on this line of thinking , I am not sure. But after it is a human and the conception has happened, it is wrong IMHO.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:22 PM
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Actually the pill, IUD, morning after pill and hormone injections do not prevent conception - they just make the uterus inhospitable to the embryo so that it cannot attach ... and the embryo is flushed out in the next cycle.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by c_au
Actually the pill, IUD, morning after pill and hormone injections do not prevent conception - they just make the uterus inhospitable to the embryo so that it cannot attach ... and the embryo is flushed out in the next cycle.


I was thinking more of the condom as it is probably the most used method.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 03:42 AM
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I guess thats means that those contraceptives mentioned are wrong too ...

.... here abortion is deemed unlawful, but the laws have been liberalised so that abortions can be lawfully performed for the purpose of preserving the life or health of the woman - health meaning not just her physical health, but her mental health....

Anyway the abortion laws in America don't affect me directly... I just think its sad all this judgement .... feels like oppression and a step backward for womankind to me.

A study I read showed that 1 of 2 women presenting for abortion were on contraception when they became pregnant, and circumstances such as coercion, manipulation, rape and alcohol use which deny a woman the opportunity to exercise her free will and take contraceptive precautions is also a factor.

I heard on CNN that abstinence is going to be promoted in schools ... I guess thats the answer.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by c_au]



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 03:14 PM
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I wish abortions here were unlawful except for some cases. It is barbaric how many children we kill a year in the US.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 09:30 PM
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... you mean potential children ...

What I was getting at is a more moderate approach - the clinic I drive past has been there for as long as I can remember and is still there, and there are still women getting abortions ... the law here doesn't condone the practice, but as well as life and health issues, recognises the woman's psychological health as a factor to be considered.

Based on the premise that abortion should be illegal (criminal) because life begins at conception, then certain contraceptives will have to be made illegal too. That would just be taking it too far - illegal to have abortions and illegal to prevent them ... is that oppression or what?


In other words, the premise is too broad to begin with !

Because based on that premise it would follow that a woman on contraceptives would also be classified as a criminal.... What would you do? ....throw her in jail because she's on the pill? While you're at it, throw the boyfriend /de facto /husband in jail too.... why not? ....fair's fair - punish BOTH the 'slut' and the woman !



[edit on 5-12-2004 by c_au]



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 09:42 PM
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Well some forms of contraception yes but not all.........



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Well some forms of contraception yes but not all.........

Which ones? Would you expect all hormonal contracetives to be banned? [Inclusive of the pill, deprovera [needle], the patch and the implant]. I think the IUD leaves the womb inhospitable as well.
If an egg is fertilised but fails to implant it is not a pregnancy and therefore it's not an abortion [or 'murder']. Could you tell us which ones you condemn and what you suggest women do when these things are no longer available to them.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 09:19 PM
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Trying to trap me isn't going to work, try as you might, the pill, the rubber, the whatever is not looked upon with good from the Church as we are to be fruitful and multiply, not kill our unborn.

With you logic masturbation would be murder because them sperm COULD have impregnated an egg. Bad argument imho.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 03:39 AM
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... people did and do go forth and multiply and now we have too many people on this planet - people take too much out of the planet, cause too much pollution and there's a very real threat of the planet running out of water and oxygen in the next 50 - 80 years. In fact ecologists believe that even with our current world population, with our current rate of consumption, the planet cannot sustain itself.

That um ... 'ideology' might have been necessary for survival of the species 'at the beginning', but in our current state of ecological crisis, is simply not practical anymore.



[edit on 7-12-2004 by c_au]



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 03:47 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Trying to trap me isn't going to work, try as you might, the pill, the rubber, the whatever is not looked upon with good from the Church as we are to be fruitful and multiply, not kill our unborn.

With you logic masturbation would be murder because them sperm COULD have impregnated an egg. Bad argument imho.

I wasn't trying to trap you. I was asking which contraceptives you think should be legally banned.. remembering of course religious diversity. How does my logic translate to preventing conception being murder? Thats ludicrous. My point was that some contracetives prevent conception.. others just prevent implantation.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
..........For the record, I am pro-Life


No, really?

And yet you're pro death penalty?

(flip-flop, flip, flippity-flop)

As a recent father who is currently spending nights awake, I am still pro-choice. It wasn't my body doing the carrying, but it was our choice.

You want to talk about world poverty, how many nations have you been to that are in the developing or, better yet, the least-developed world?



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by edsinger
..........For the record, I am pro-Life


No, really?

And yet you're pro death penalty?

(flip-flop, flip, flippity-flop)


I know this is going to shock many people but I agree with Ed here. I'm pro-life AND pro-death penalty. They are seperate issue. An unborn child is innocent, a convicted murderer isn't. BUT birth control, responsibillity, should be used to prevent pregnancy, not using abortion as an alternative.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 08:41 AM
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I was gonna stay outa this one as I usually try to do with abortion topics but.....
This issue is not and can be cut and dried. I am not pro life and I am not pro choice....this is a hard, hard topic for me because I feel it has to be case by case evaluation. I DO NOT believe in abortion as a means of birth control, I do not believe in abortion because your not ready to have a child...if your not ready and your not mature enough to take the proper precautions...you shouldn't be having sex. I think abortion is acceptable for incest, rape, and medical reasons. Also if it were not for abortion can you imagine the poor little children that would be born with severe mental deficiencies due to drug addicted mothers and/or fathers? So very sad. I will say here, that I had an abortion when I was almost 17...I was married. I got married when I was 15, almost 16. We separated and I found myself pregnant. I wanted it, my parents pushed into an abortion. I will tell you the physiological damage to the mother is tremendous! I had nightmares of a baby crying in the basement and when I would go to pick it up out of the crib to hold it, it would be a little skeleton wrapped in a blanket. I had that nightmare for years and still to this day think about that baby......it's not an easy thing to go through...or it shouldn't be......if it is....there is a serious problem with character of the woman...JMHO here folks. I am also pro death penalty...



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV
I was gonna stay outa this one as I usually try to do with abortion topics but.....
This issue is not and can be cut and dried. I am not pro life and I am not pro choice....this is a hard, hard topic for me because I feel it has to be case by case evaluation. I DO NOT believe in abortion as a means of birth control, I do not believe in abortion because your not ready to have a child...if your not ready and your not mature enough to take the proper precautions...you shouldn't be having sex. I think abortion is acceptable for incest, rape, and medical reasons.


I am sorry to hear that you have a personal stake in this, but in reality, I can understand your position and even agree. The practice is abused and I want to thank you for telling your story even though it must be hard.

Thank you Lady V.



Originally posted by intrepid
I know this is going to shock many people but I agree with Ed here. I'm pro-life AND pro-death penalty. They are seperate issue. An unborn child is innocent, a convicted murderer isn't. BUT birth control, responsibillity, should be used to prevent pregnancy, not using abortion as an alternative.


Couldn't have said it better myself!




[edit on 7-12-2004 by edsinger]



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 06:07 AM
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The killing of any human life is wrong. Abortion,death penalty, war is all wrong.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
t is called opportunity, and it gets not better than the US.


haha. you are starting to sound like sleeper, now!



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by General Zapata

Originally posted by edsinger
t is called opportunity, and it gets not better than the US.


haha. you are starting to sound like sleeper, now!



Well I guess I missed it because I have no clue to what you are asking.

Sleeper? Yes every night until I have to go to work...



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