I am an Ukranian, and this video must be spread around the world. (video)

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge


What do you mean if Crimea really wanted this they would have petitioned to the UN long ago? You don't see a correlation between fascist taking over Ukraine, and Crimea wanting to annex due to fascists taking over the Ukraine?

I wonder if anyone on this forum has spoken to an actual Crimean...

Despite all of the news hype the will of the young people in Ukraine is generally favoritism toward Russia which many feel has a higher quality of life. And I will take the advice of my sister who works for the WTO in Kazakhstan, the news is a form of entertainment and not governance. Despite the fact that sitting here 20 miles from Russia's southern border that the euro news blackout wreaks of conspiracy.... I think.

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge

Putin and Russia have ZERO right to annex Crimea. Absolutely not one percent!

So then America has every Right then to annex Serbia's Kosovo Region and homeland of the Serbs by force and threats right? nope America has ZERO right to do anything currently at this stage whatever the white house is run by the Dems or Right Wingers.

circuitsports
I wonder if anyone on this forum has spoken to an actual Crimean...

Despite all of the news hype the will of the young people in Ukraine is generally favoritism toward Russia which many feel has a higher quality of life. And I will take the advice of my sister who works for the WTO in Kazakhstan, the news is a form of entertainment and not governance. Despite the fact that sitting here 20 miles from Russia's southern border that the euro news blackout wreaks of conspiracy.... I think.

The Russians are not allowing foreign media into Crimea, that's why there is a lack of western news about what's happening there.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Not entirely true. There are AP journalists and journos from the bbc there. Also an interesting report on the BBC about Ukrainian soldiers moving closer to the eastern borders and not entirely welcome by the locals. Understandable, no one wants a war on their doorstep.

An Associated Press reporter at the scene said pro-Russian self-defence forces had broken into the building - the headquarters of the Ukrainian navy - and raised the Russian flag.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Watch the 2nd video in the link to see how the Ukrainian army units are not welcome and been asked to leave by the villagers in the east of Ukraine.

This is all bbc so hardly anti western propaganda by any stretch.

Darkmask

Even if the Russian Soldiers did vote, it wouldn't have affected much more than 3% of the total vote. All elections have fraud. The Crimean people have clearly spoken, get over it already.

Using intimidation and threats, and not just vocal threats but by taking over completely Crimea...By sending and allowing Russian citizens to vote while not allowing any foreign media into Crimea... Not to mention the fact that the Russian government took by force Congress and the Senate and even called senators he knew would oppose him and were told not to go to the referendum or their families would suffer... Then with a minority of elected officials in government who support Putin, the referendum occurred. Yeah the people have spoken alright...

I can imagine what people like you would say IMMEDIATELY if it was the U.S. doing that...

ElectricUniverse

Darkmask

Even if the Russian Soldiers did vote, it wouldn't have affected much more than 3% of the total vote. All elections have fraud. The Crimean people have clearly spoken, get over it already.

Using intimidation and threats, and not just vocal threats but by taking over completely Crimea...By sending and allowing Russian citizens to vote while not allowing any foreign media into Crimea... Not to mention the fact that the Russian government took by force Congress and the Senate and even called senators he knew would oppose him and were told not to go to the referendum or their families would suffer... Then with a minority of elected officials in government who support Putin, the referendum occurred. Yeah the people have spoken alright...

I can imagine what people like you would say IMMEDIATELY if it was the U.S. doing that...

Do you have anything to support your claims?
Or is it just the bile we see seething from your posts day in day out?

woodwardjnr
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Not entirely true. There are AP journalists and journos from the bbc there. Also an interesting report on the BBC about Ukrainian soldiers moving closer to the eastern borders and not entirely welcome by the locals. Understandable, no one wants a war on their doorstep.

I posted a video from the BBC where they filmed the fact that they were not allowed to enter Crimea, and were told to leave.



While traveling to cover the referendum vote on whether Crimea should secede from Ukraine and join Russia, NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel and his crew were temporarily detained.

woodwardjnr
Watch the 2nd video in the link to see how the Ukrainian army units are not welcome and been asked to leave by the villagers in the east of Ukraine.

This is all bbc so hardly anti western propaganda by any stretch. That's in the Ukraine, not in Crimea. Of course there will be some people who would, and they state it is not because they are against the Ukrainian government but because the presence of the soldiers puts them in danger...

What in the world do you think that proves?... Of course there will be people afraid... That doesn't mean they agree with Russia taking over.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


If the enemy was at my village and my local army turned up, I would accommodate them and do all I could help them defend me and my country from the enemy. I would offer all my services and expect every villager to do the same. Wouldn't you?

For the Thread OP, When mentioning about posting news articles about the current crisis in Ukraine, you should be aware if your going to be posting articles from the BBC you should know they arent always sticking to the truth on what they claim and report.


In the same way how the BBC lied about whom bombed the Aleppo Children School in last year's summer.

Darkmask
reply to post by ElectricUniverse
[more)

Even if the Russian Soldiers did vote, it wouldn't have affected much more than 3% of the total vote. All elections have fraud. The Crimean people have clearly spoken, get over it already.

Agreed and also where is the evidence that they were Russian Soldiers that voted? its past three days no one has proven that yet. Yet i have seen pictures of these Crimean soldiers whom want to be part of Russia they look very friendly to the people in the majority of the pictures in which i had seen.

ElectricUniverse

Darkmask

Even if the Russian Soldiers did vote, it wouldn't have affected much more than 3% of the total vote. All elections have fraud. The Crimean people have clearly spoken, get over it already.

Using intimidation and threats, and not just vocal threats but by taking over completely Crimea...By sending and allowing Russian citizens to vote while not allowing any foreign media into Crimea... Not to mention the fact that the Russian government took by force Congress and the Senate and even called senators he knew would oppose him and were told not to go to the referendum or their families would suffer... Then with a minority of elected officials in government who support Putin, the referendum occurred. Yeah the people have spoken alright...

I can imagine what people like you would say IMMEDIATELY if it was the U.S. doing that...

RT, March 12 2014 - OSCE slams Ukraine’s repressive censorship of Russian TV channels

RT, March 19 2014 (edited) - Humiliation: Ukrainian MP & thugs beat state TV Channel head into resigning (VIDEO)

Voice of Russia, March 19 2014 - Ukraine journalists urge to ban right-wing Svoboda party
Read more: voiceofrussia.com...

Those oppressive Russians, eh? How many videos are there of Russians violently attacking media officials as opposed to videos of ultranationalist Ukrainian MPs beating media officials?

woodwardjnr

If the enemy was at my village and my local army turned up, I would accommodate them and do all I could help them defend me and my country from the enemy. I would offer all my services and expect every villager to do the same. Wouldn't you?

That's more easily said than done... More so if you have a family with kids who could be in the middle of a war/conflict.

Parents normally put the safety of their children before anything else.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


This is not derailing, it is looking in the past and identifying a behavioral pattern with possible current behavioral pattern. Derailing was not my aim. Please, I apologize if you got that impression.

Anyway, this is a response to all those people who want to try to dismiss this whole situation by claiming that the woman in the first video I posted "is working for the U.S. administration", when that is not true.

I found a website where there is more information about her, and the work she and her husband have been doing to show the whole situation in Ukraine since before the riots started.

Her name is Yulia, and she is a post-graduate student in Literature in Ukraine, not an actor as some people keep claiming. The video was put together by Ben Moses, a filmmaker who met Yulia during the protests as he was also preparing a film on the lack of Democracy in Ukraine.

“I am a Ukrainian, and this needs to go viral,” is the message in this video from Yulia, a post-graduate student in literature in Ukraine, currently in the midst of violent government repression. As reported by Deborah Stambler in the Huffington Post, the video was put together by filmmaker Ben Moses, who is currently at work on a documentary, A Whisper to a Roar, about democracy activists around the world.

Moses told Stambler:

I was in Ukraine preparing a film on democracy — and the lack thereof — when the protests overwhelmed everything. Hundreds of thousands of ordinary people flooded the streets, finally fed up with the corruption and ceaseless power grabbing by the leaders of this government. Meeting the people in the protests — many families with children — and hearing their stories propelled me to try and do something to spread the word about what their issues really are. This young woman personifies the vast majority of the people on the streets in the country, and speaks to the heart of the protest. The vast 99% are not thugs or neo-Nazis, they are ordinary citizens who have simply had enough.

About Ben Moses:

Moses is best known as the creator and co-producer of Touchstone’s "Good Morning, Vietnam" starring Robin Williams, he also associate produced ITC/Orion’s "Without a Clue" starring Michael Caine and Ben Kingsley; produced and directed RCA/Columbia’s "Nickel & Dime" (Wallace Shawn, C. Thomas Howell); produced "Hope Ranch" (Bruce Boxleitner, Lorenzo Lamas, Gail O’Grady) for Discovery Networks and executive produced "Cupid’s Prey" (Joanna Pacula, Jack Wagner) for Daybreak Pacific.

www.alexandrosmaragos.com...

You can hear her well and the background noises are lower simply because the film was produced by a famous filmmaker during the protests.

This doesn't make her an actor, but a person who is in the midst of the situation in Ukraine and has been speaking out against the corruption of the people in power in Ukraine during, and before the protests.

reply to post by Vovin


This is why Yulia spoke against the corruption of POLITITIANS, not just against Yanukovych... There are many pro-Russian people in power in Ukraine. This is bad, and Yulia stated "clearly" that there would probably be censorship in Ukraine.

Russia will continue trying, and will probably succeed in annexing previous satellite states of the Soviet Union, which have become independent, by any way necessary.

Yusomad

Do you have anything to support your claims?
Or is it just the bile we see seething from your posts day in day out?

How about you read the information I have provided throughout the thread?... But then again, I can see what your argument is, using nothing but insults, deriding, and mocking comments...

ElectricUniverse
reply to post by Vovin

 

This is why Yulia spoke against the corruption of POLITITIANS, not just against Yanukovych... There are many pro-Russian people in power in Ukraine. This is bad, and Yulia stated "clearly" that there would probably be censorship in Ukraine.

...I fail to understand what you're saying. The reports on censorship that I provided in those links were about the ultranationalist coup faction enforcing censorship by banning Russian media. Then I added a video of an ultranationalist MP and his gang of thugs beating a media official into resigning because he wasn't Ukrainian enough. Then I posted an article on how Ukrainian journalists are acting against the ultranationalists.

So what does this have to do with what you just said about pro-Russian types in government being bad? Aside from the fact that they were democratically elected, of course.

Russia will continue trying, and will probably succeed in annexing previous satellite states of the Soviet Union, which have become independent, by any way necessary.

Why?

I want you to explain why, because I don't believe you. I want you to explain how doing this could possibly benefit Russia.

Because in saying that, you may as well be talking nonsense like how some Arabs hate the USA because of their freedom. That's a George W. Bush level understanding of geopolitics right there. Simply saying that Russia is trying to rebuild the USSR exposes a total misunderstanding of Russian geopolitics, economics, foreign and domestic policy, military projection capabilities, etc etc. and really, how stupid can you be to rebuild and empire that had collapsed. The USSR did not collapse because of ideology, it collapsed due to bad central management (particularly of agricultural production). The same problem would persist even if capitalist Russia managed to take over all of the ex-Soviet states.

Back in reality, Russia has other objectives in mind for Crimea. Let's start with the fact that NATO has been creeping closer and closer to Russia for the past 25 years. Placing ABM batteries close enough to Russia's border that they can be used to should down Russian ICBMs before they even leave Russian territory is clearly a provocation on NATO's part and is clearly a move to bolster American first-strike capability.

Second is the fact that the ultranationalists in Ukraine have close ties to the Chechen insurgency, with leaders not only being exposed as wanted terrorists but also calling for terrorism against Russia. Maybe for an American terrorism may be a trigger-word by politicians, but suicide bombings anywhere in Russia are not a rare occurrence and they will not hesitate to respond to such threats.

Vovin

...I fail to understand what you're saying. The reports on censorship that I provided in those links were about the ultranationalist coup faction enforcing censorship by banning Russian media. Then I added a video of an ultranationalist MP and his gang of thugs beating a media official into resigning because he wasn't Ukrainian enough. Then I posted an article on how Ukrainian journalists are acting against the ultranationalists.

So what does this have to do with what you just said about pro-Russian types in government being bad? Aside from the fact that they were democratically elected, of course.

...

In order to understand what is happening to date, and what has happened in the past in the region we have to look further in the past. At what Russian military and KGB defectors have said the people in power in the old U.S.S.R. had in mind for the future, and what the end goal would be.

Now, notice that the information below comes straight from Dr. Dennis R. Papazian, a professor of Soviet history. What he states can be further validated by searching the sources Dr. Papazian used in his research.

November 14, 1990


Nagorno-Karabag: A Case Study in "Perestroika"

by Dennis R. Papazian, Ph.D.
Dr. Dennis R. Papazian is a professor of Soviet history, the founder/director of the Armenian Research Center at The University of Michigan, Dearborn, and a member of the faculty of the Center for Russian and East European Studies at The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. This paper is a preliminary draft/study written for oral delivery at the annual conference of the AAASS in Washington, DC, Friday, October 19, 1990.
...
More recently, Anatoliy Golitsyn, a Soviet defector of high status, has suggested that the Soviet Union is capable of disinformation on such a massive scale that even the Borkenau system is no longer viable.2 In a book first published in 1984, and of necessity written before then, Golitsyn argues that the leadership of the whole Communist bloc came to an agreement in 1958 in which it established a long range program, a master plan, which it would realize through a large scale deception of the West, a monumental scam.
...
Golitsyn maintains that the goals of the master plan were to provide a more profound political stabilization of individual communist regimes by developing wider mass support, the rectification of economic weakness of the bloc by increased international trade and the acquisition of credits and high technology from the West, the creation of a substructure for an eventual world federation of communist states, political isolation of the US from its allies, developing influence among socialists in Western Europe and Japan, the dissolution of NATO, and an alignment between the Soviet Union and a neutral, preferably socialist, Western Europe; concerted action with nationalist leaders in the Third World to eliminate Western influence as a preliminary to absorbing them in a communist federation, shifting the balance of power in favor of the Communist world, and the ideological disarmament of the West to create favorable conditions for convergence of East and West on communist terms.3

Golitsyn predicts that the Soviet regime will be stabilized by the creation of spurious, controlled opposition movements and the use of those movements to neutralize genuine internal and external opposition, and that it will encourage communist parties to establish united fronts with socialist parties throughout the world thus increasing Soviet influence in parliaments and trade unions.4

Some of the techniques, according to Golitsyn, will be dissension within the bloc, unity of action behind disunity of words, a show of weakness before meeting with Western leaders or before major initiatives or negotiations, and the heavy use of disinformation.5 This disinformation will emanate from official Communist sources, unofficial Communist sources, and "secret" communist sources, much of it retrospective. It is to be delivered through Western newspapermen, scholars, officials, and the Soviet intelligentsia.

It is interesting to note, in this regard, that most of what we believe to be happening in the Soviet Union still comes from Soviet sources, which are delivered directly to the West and are not always available internally, glasnost notwithstanding. Boris Yeltsin's book, Against the Grain,6 was published in the West in English, apparently to establish his bono fides as a dissident candidate just before he was elected president of the RSFSR. It has not been released in the USSR in any language whatsoever.

The final phase of the master plan, according to Golitsyn, is a disinformation and deception campaign of such magnitude that it would be "beyond the imagination of Marx, or the practical reach of Lenin, and unthinkable to Stalin. Among such previously unthinkable stratagems are the introduction of false liberalization in Eastern Europe and, probably, the Soviet Union, and the exhibition of spurious independence on the part of the regimes in Romania, Czechoslovakia, and Poland."7

Golitsyn predicted the "breakup" of the communist bloc in Eastern Europe as a technique to be used by the Soviet government to entice Europe to move more towards socialism and to align itself eventually with the USSR against the United States.8 The Third World would then join communist Russia and socialist Western Europe against the US and its allies. Then there would be a joint drive by the Soviet bloc and a socialist Europe to push the US out of Europe and into nuclear disarmament. A powerful world federation of communist states would emerge and the US would be induced to "converge" on communist terms.9

Such a plan would not only exceed the imagination of Marx, or the practical reach of Lenin, and be unthinkable to Stalin, but also defies credulity altogether. Still, despite its incredulity, it must be admitted that at least a year before Gorbachev came to power Golitsyn predicted in writing the breakup of the communist bloc and dissension within the Soviet Union. Since apparent change has come to Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union at a pace unimaginable only a few years ago -- unimaginable except, we must add, to Anatoliy Golitsyn -- perhaps it is worth the attempt to test the Golitsyn hypothesis in the light of what is currently happening in Europe and the USSR.

We should be aware, Golitsyn warns, that much of the information that is being served up in the Soviet Union and even in Eastern Europe is being prepared by the same cooks who fed the West lies in pre-glasnost and pre-perestroika times; hence the title of his book, New Lies for Old. Why should we, asks Golitsyn, believe that the same people who lied to us in the past are now telling us the truth? Is it not possible that glasnost is nothing more that a cover for a new set of lies, lies that the West wants to believe, the lies that Communism is dead and the USSR is mellowing? This information, which the Soviets themselves distribute, must be information that the Soviets want distributed. Is it not possible that perestroika is that limited restructuring described by Gorbachev in his book, Perestroika: New Thinking for Our Country and the World,10 and not the stampede to capitalism which American pundits think they are witnessing?

Let us try two scenarios to fit the Golitsyn hypothesis, one for Europe and one for inside the Soviet Union. If we observe Eastern Europe between the World Wars, we see that democracy was shaky at best and that military dictatorships were more the norm. Capitalism was weak and ineffective, with the exception of the area of former East Germany and of Czechoslovakia, and the population was chiefly agrarian and impoverished. When Eastern Europe was enveloped into the communist bloc, it was despoiled by the USSR and encouraged to go heavily into debt to the West. Many economists believe that much of the borrowings were not invested in infrastructure, but rather passed through in cash and goods to the USSR. Eastern Europe is now heavily in debt and still impoverished. The Soviets, while maintaining a secret communist and police infrastructure11 and control of the local bureaucracies, have allowed the states to become "independent."
...

www.umd.umich.edu...

Apologies for the long excerpt, but the information is very important and has to be read in context.

Putin himself was a KGB officer, and is now in power in Russia. It is also known that other former KGB agents and people who were in power while Russia was part of the Soviet Union are now either in power, including the Russian mafia, or they influence heavily the power players in the region today, such as Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev.

There will always be people who will have their own goals, but you have to question with whom will people normally associate nationalists and their actions, with Russia, or with the Western world? More importantly, whom exactly does it benefit the most the actions of the nationalists in nations like Ukraine?

Pretty much everything that real former Russian defectors of high status, like Anatoliy Golitsyn, have said and written about the goals of the Russian elites has either come to pass, or is happening.

To this day I can't understand why there are people who would state that, for example in the U.S. both Democrat and Republican parties are corrupted and behind doors they work together, which I agree with, but many if not most of these same people can't think that the Russian global players, among some others, have been doing the same thing for even a longer period of time.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Putin himself was a KGB officer, and is now in power in Russia. It is also known that other former KGB agents and people who were in power while Russia was part of the Soviet Union are now either in power, including the Russian mafia, or they influence heavily the power players in the region today, such as Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev.

Putin himself was a KGB officer what of it? What makes u think American presidents weren't agents either?