Why do guns matter more to Americans than...

Cabin

kdyam

A beating is a beating.. in the US and in the UK.. and is reported as such in both countries... a fight that turns into assault charges is a violent crime... in both countries...

Can you provide some examples of what type of violent crime would be reported in the UK that wouldnt be reported in the US?

Vandalism, home quarrel without actual violence, just screaming (constitutes as causing public fear). No actual injury needs to happen in order for it to constitute as violent crime. Less than half of the violent crimes involved actual injury. No charges need to be pressed, a call for police is enough to count something as violent crime. Something reported = +1 to statistics even if no crime happened.

Any sexual offence counts as violent crime, while in US only rape constitutes one. In UK, about a quarter of sexual offenses counted in stats are rapes. For example, that is also the reason, why Sweden is number one in rape statistics among advanced economies. The legal definition of rapes counts every reporting as one, even if no rape actually happened. In reality, when actual rapes were counted, Sweden had similar stats compared to other nations, but due to change of definition in 05, it seems as if Sweden has twice the amount rapes as in any other advanced country.

I personally believe, the violent crimes are slighly higher in UK than in US though due to the drinking habits. There are lots of drunk offences/bar fights, but generally the difference is significant enough for people to consider UK more "dangerous". Pretty much the same violent crime (non-murder) wise.

edit on 11-3-2014 by Cabin because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the response.... I will take your word on it, I have my doubts but what you said makes sense. The US is far from perfect, and our government generally seems to turn a blind eye on what most citizens want... but thank you.. we are all in the same boat letting the rich and those with selfish agendas get into office. If we the people actually ruled would we get corrupted? Or would we make a difference and live better and safer lives?

The US and the UK both have the same problem... political leaders, the majority of which could never live our average lives. Yet, they are the ones we continue to appoint and elect to run our countries... damn,,

Think of how America was started-long story short-they fought the oppressive British Empire and began the greatest country in the world as we know it (regardless of who is currently the President and his efforts to lessen the greatness of it).

They were able to do it because they possessed firearms and were very good at doing so. So, they went the way of:

WITH A GUN YOU ARE A CITIZEN
WITHOUT A GUN YOU ARE A SLAVE

Then, think about every ruthless dictator, King, leader etc that killed and enslaved their own people.
They were able to do so because they did not have the means to fight back etc. Hitler started off his empire by taking peoples guns away.

I bet you if you could ask all the murder Jewish people if they could have a gun about two seconds before they were taken away you would get a 100% YES response..... Think about it.


Honestly, most of us the USA are amazed that you others in the world don't have guns like we do.
We shake our heads and wonder about you.

Just Saying.......

Nolimits

boymonkey74
No limits can you stop it please? you are giving us Brits a bad name by trying to troll and wind up our pals from the USA.

They're not my pals. Remember how they stabbed us in the back at Suez. Remember how their people funded the IRA.

No "friend" would ever behave that way. Christ I trust the Germans more than the Americans.

Yes, how dare we put a stop to the U.K.'s unprovoked invasion of Egypt, an invasion that literally could have started World War III. You know, people on this site b*tch all the time about U.S. interventions around the world, gee I wonder who we learned it from. BTW, it was never the U.S. government's policy to support the IRA, that was private citizens of Irish descent who had a problem with your 300 year occupation of their ancestor's homeland.

reply to post by Cabin

As I said, I do not want it to become America-bashing thread

Well it kind of is. It insinuates Americans don't care about multiple issues. If they are concerned with gun rights then they dismiss all the other issues you outlined in the thread. That's absurd and offensive.

As for my particular stance on guns? If the authority were armed with swords, if the criminals were armed with swords, I would want one as well. No different because it's now guns. When my home was invaded and I lost a brother from a gun wound it became clear to me a means for self-defense was critical. Sure I wish we got rid of the guns. That's not happening any time soon, so I choose to own in the interim for protection.

NonsensicalUserName
a gun won't help you in any real way fight the federal government, sure you could kill some people before you yourself are killed, but that won't change anything really.

...seems to have worked as the winning strategy in every war ever fought through the history of the world. Understand, violent resistance is only futile if it is just yourself you're fighting for. As long as those fighting recognize that they're fighting for the future, for their kids, and for the survival of ideals, it absolutely elicits change.

burdman30ott6

NonsensicalUserName
a gun won't help you in any real way fight the federal government, sure you could kill some people before you yourself are killed, but that won't change anything really.

...seems to have worked as the winning strategy in every war ever fought through the history of the world. Understand, violent resistance is only futile if it is just yourself you're fighting for. As long as those fighting recognize that they're fighting for the future, for their kids, and for the survival of ideals, it absolutely elicits change.

Exactly.

Tell the Afghani's or the Iraqi's that a few determined men willing to die for their cause can't defeat a modern army.

Never mind the fact that as a vet I've had this discussion with my fellow soldiers, and not one of them would fire on Americans or attempt to confiscate guns.

If enough vets get together, we'd have a better Army than the feds. They trained us, we know to use those weapons.

reply to post by NonsensicalUserName

It's an interesting point you raise though about income inequality being a major factor for crime..

you can spell detroit that way if you like...
but to me;
its a few to many letters

reply to post by Hmmmmmmm


And some of us have equal to, or even better than, weapons than they do...

That is what really scares them....

and sometimes
right makes might

reply to post by anon72


those leaders were all installed by or murdered and replaced by the banker elites using washington and nato
as smedly butker put it: its a racket...
the current administration is trending towards dictatorial communofacsism....

to be honest, the communists favorite trick is to pit everyone against each other wait till a small group is the last bunch standing, then invite them to a wedding in the hill coutry, and then drone the shack down

sure as shoot, soon there will be an american czar on that list

So,when it comes to choosing what you target, I'll quote someone i greatly respect:
Make sure you are right...THEN go ahead"...- Davey Crockett

reply to post by Cabin


How about this for an explanation. This government was built on the fact that they systematically tried to wipe out an entire peoples for gain. Everytime they would 'round up' the injuns. They would first have them turn in all guns,pile them up then go back to the line they were in.In most cases the shooting would then commence and they would be mowed down where they stood.Those that did survive would be taken on a hellish travel on foot to a reservation just for them. There they would starve and barely be able to live.

This country was built on guns,the west was won with them,the 'natives' subdued,and animals were hunted until they were almost extinct.All for a better life.(yeah I know) If this country can turn on the people that were originally here and tried to help the first settlers,what do you think they would do with all of us if we 'got in their way'? '

The vast majority of things you list are from corruption plain and simple.Corrupt people don't care who they hurt or how far they have to go to get what they want.Therefore we don't trust them.Would you? And I'm pretty sure that saying "hey USA,could you please just listen to us and not try to lock us up or beat us?' Yeah that won't work.So we keep our guns and watch and wait.

reply to post by Cabin


Im very pro-gun but also very liberal and I'll toss in my 2 cents here.

I agree with most of what you posted. We are getting screwed by big corporations. Our healthcare isn't the best. Higher education is getting more and more expensive every year. Our public schools are going downhill. The outsourcing of jobs, etc...... We do speak out against this stuff, but unfortunately, we cant pass a law or 2 and then that changes everything for those issues. These issues are broad and complex. For example, we cant just pass a single law that will suddenly make all the corporations stop shipping jobs overseas overnight.

When it comes to gun legislation, that legislation is easier to fight against (or fight for), since it is very specific. It's much much easier to stand for/against very specific legislation, rather than issues that are broad and complex. Look at what happened last year when there was an anti-gun push at the federal level. They were simple, specific bills. It was pretty easy to pick a side, and make your voice heard.

ETA - As for the USA vs UK stuff that always happens in these thread....We're 2 different cultures. We both do things differently.

Im fine with someone from another country commenting on our laws (either good or bad comments). I may disagree with what they say, but that's their opinion and I also comment on other countries laws to. (It is the internet).

reply to post by anon72


We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics.
Participating in a gun buy back or registration program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids.
Funny how all this works, no ?

Advised ? i think more like Dictated to ! i dont why TPTB pander so much to Muslims ,foreign Aid etc, like Australia giving Aid to Pakistan ,Indonesia ,etc to build Moslem Schools ,Mosques etc .Gun owners dont demand that others become gun owners ,its a choice [in a free country ]if you want to own a gun or not ! Under Islam you do not have a choice ,they go to foreign countries with the intention of making it Islamic ,look at Europe and what they are doing to it, and other cultures ,they are intolerant to all other religions and a major menace in the future ,for all peoples in every country on Earth

reply to post by Cabin

that is something I still find incredibly hard to grasp... The importance of guns in American culture.

I've seen you post in thread after thread about gun control, always asking the same questions no matter how well your questions were answered.

Its a different culture than yours, so maybe you will never understand why people like their firearms here in the good ol USA.

Yeah, the US has some serious problems, but the UK does as well. I could make just as long a list for the UK as you just did for the US.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior


Don't fall into the trap dudes, we are brothers and sisters with lots of shared History in helping each other.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are right the OP has made stuff like this before...don't look under the bridge eh.

macman
reply to post by buster2010

 

Honestly, you clearly don't understand private property, do you?

You don't have the right to freedom of speech on private property.

If it is a State run Campus, then there is an issue.

If it is a private campus, sorry, no rights to speak anywhere anytime.

Wrong if these campuses receive any federal funding at all then they have to allow the rights that are given in the constitution. And if you do some checking it is public not private campuses that are denying students these rights you can only cry it's private when you deny public access.

I don't own a gun and probably never will because I have no fear. Statistically, people without guns are less likely to get shot...a very little known fact.

That said, I completely understand why Americans are holding on to their gun culture. Its because every dictator in History first needed to disarm the public before tyranny could be installed. So them preferring to keep their guns is a no-brainer and its sad that the standards of Education on History are so low that most young people aren't even aware of the true reason.

Skyfloating

I completely understand why Americans are holding on to their gun culture. Its because every dictator in History first needed to disarm the public before tyranny could be installed. So them preferring to keep their guns is a no-brainer and its sad that the standards of Education on History are so low that most young people aren't even aware of the true reason.

No we keep guns because we can. When we are told we can't we lose them, not unlike California. There are dozens of American gun manufacturers and a handful of furniture manufacturers. There is too much revenue being generated by American citizens to bam guns. Besides, it gives us a false sense of security....what is an AR-15 going to do when you have a Tomahawk Cruise Missle barreling towards you cords?

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Cabin

 

As I said, I do not want it to become America-bashing thread

Well it kind of is. It insinuates Americans don't care about multiple issues. If they are concerned with gun rights then they dismiss all the other issues you outlined in the thread. That's absurd and offensive.

As for my particular stance on guns? If the authority were armed with swords, if the criminals were armed with swords, I would want one as well. No different because it's now guns. When my home was invaded and I lost a brother from a gun wound it became clear to me a means for self-defense was critical. Sure I wish we got rid of the guns. That's not happening any time soon, so I choose to own in the interim for protection.

I am sorry if I sounded offensive. I truly did not intend to. I do not say people do not care about such topics. Even on ATS constantly topics on these pop up. Although people do not want to start revolution because of these issues, while there have been several calls for a revolution because of stricter gun control laws.

Cancerwarrior
reply to post by Cabin

 

I've seen you post in thread after thread about gun control, always asking the same questions no matter how well your questions were answered.

Its a different culture than yours, so maybe you will never understand why people like their firearms here in the good ol USA.

Usually, I just like debating and well, generally speaking, I still do believe statistically higher gun ownership leads to higher murder rates, as vast majority of pro-gun arguments can be debunked quite easily, when looked purely analytically on the current stats. And well, often I just can not leave without answering to some argument, if it is a myth/ignorance a´la the high british violent crime rate/the no-gun zones/honduras high gun violence rate.

By now, I´ve come to understand the cultural part better. I was hoping on getting better insight into the cultural roots of the gun culture in thread and besides this thread having a lot of general UK/US argue, there have been some very interesting posts and well, at least for me these have helped gain better insight into the culture.