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Why do guns matter more to Americans than...

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posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by Nolimits
 


Then reply like a human not like some troll.
You want people to reply to you with respect then show some back that's how it works and if not then




posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 03:46 PM
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Cabin

kdyam
Last time I checked England lost their rights to "bear" arms. Look at the violent crime rate there now.... one of the highest in the world.


British justice system defines violent crime differently, much more broadly, so violent crime rates are incomparable. Imagine if US counted speeding tickets as traffic violence and UK didn´t. Are the stats of these two comparable then? Well, its the same with violent crime. What is violent crime in UK, often doesn´t constitute as one in US.

edit on 11-3-2014 by Cabin because: (no reason given)


A beating is a beating.. in the US and in the UK.. and is reported as such in both countries... a fight that turns into assault charges is a violent crime... in both countries...

Can you provide some examples of what type of violent crime would be reported in the UK that wouldnt be reported in the US?



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by kdyam
 


according to whome? from what has been said violent crime is defined differently in the UK.



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 03:48 PM
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macman
reply to post by Cuervo
 


The Republic of Cascadia hurt my feelings once. Does that count?


We have Samsquanches and tree octopi here so we support the 2nd amendment, just so you know.



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by NonsensicalUserName
 


Not true about Norway, I trained there for arctic warfighter when I was in the Army.

Every day I saw guys in track suits on bicycles with FN FAL's slung over their shoulders.

The Telemark medic and I got to be decent friends because my Hummer ambulance had much better heat (it was January) and he told me that because of compulsory military service almost every house in Norway has an automatic rifle.

When your year is up you take your rifle, and some ammo, home with you.

They have very good memories of WW2, and they don't trust Russia.


He told me my favorite Scandinavian joke,

How does a Swede practice safe sex?

He paints a red x on the sheep that kick.


edit on 11-3-2014 by Hmmmmmmm because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by kdyam
 


No in the UK a small shove is reported as a violent crime.

“Violent crime contains a wide range of offences, from minor assaults such as pushing and shoving that result in no physical harm through to serious incidents of wounding and murder. Around a half of violent incidents identified by both BCS and police statistics involve no injury to the victim.” (THOSB – CEW, page 17, paragraph 1.)

But in the states.

In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.” (FBI – CUS – Violent Crime)

dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com...

Interesting read btw.

According to this site you are.

You are thus 1.1x (135.7 / 113.7) more likely to suffer robbery in the UK than in the US.

You are thus 1.52x (702.1 / 460.1) more likely to suffer burglary in the US than in the UK.

You are thus 4.03x (4.6 / 1.14) more likely to be murdered in the US than in the UK.

You are thus 1.27x (58.3 / 45.8) more likely to be knifed in the UK than in the US.

You are thus 35.2x (3.17 / 0.09) more likely to be shot dead in the US than in the UK.

You are thus 1.02x (26.7 / 26) more likely to be raped as a female in the US than in the UK.

You are thus 6.9x (241.05 / 34.7) more likely to suffer aggravated assault in the US than in the UK.

You are thus 1.29x (229.5 / 176.9) more likely to suffer theft of a vehicle in the US than in the UK.

Very interesting indeed.
.
edit on 11-3-2014 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by macman
 



Hey MacMan I meant that line for Nolimits not for you... sorry I should have clarified it.. I do read a lot of your posts and replies.. and I agree with the majority of what you say.


keep on keepin on.. Nolimits is a troll.

edit on 11-3-2014 by kdyam because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 03:58 PM
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Hmmmmmmm
I think it's the "no guns allowed" signs fault, they aren't worded strongly enough.


Nice!




posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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Nolimits

kdyam


LOL.. the back and forth is becoming a great read... Nolimits.. you seem to an angry opinionated brit.. and thats great... MacMan is Macman and that is great as well. I have a feeling you are in a losing battle though. Being rude to Boymonkey who is NOT kissing ass to us "yanks" is truly in bad form.


I don't give a damn


kdyam
I would have to say that BoyMonkey was right in his question to you, and that you are just a banned member who is back on with a grudge. Drink a Bass and chill out. Right now you are being seen as nothing more than a troll.


I don't give a damn about what people think of me either. I post for me, exclusively me, and me alone. Don't like my opinions? Too bad, because I don't post for you, I post for me.


I hope your teenage guidance counselor gets a raise.. having to put up with a snotty little tyke like you must be a huge undertaking.

So why sit there and sound silly while wondering why you dont have any friends... I will drink a Bass for you, and chuckle to myself that someone so angry and mislead can use a keyboard without breaking it.



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by kdyam
 


Shandy Bass for me I have Man flu



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Hiya Cabin.

I want to answer your question. In order to do so, I'm going to compile my replies from a couple of different threads.

To compare why many are upset about the idea of more gun control, I posted this. . .

"As a matter of fact, why not support government registration of all computers and laptops!

Child porn is an ugly horrible thing. This way, government can find the bad guys right away!

When you buy a computer, (there is a 3 week waiting period, background checks) you are given a government-issued IP address. It'll be tracked, and monitored and flagged if anything naughty comes to it or is done by it.

But if you're not doing anything bad, there will be nothing to worry about. (or aboot if you're Canadian)

Now different politicians come and go. Different ideologies come and go. A new administration may not like it if you are downloading Muslim sites or Christian sites, or Tea Party sites, or Fluffy Bunny sites.

But by then, it'll be too late.


But hey, it was to stop child pornography."

Later, I realized that we don't have gun "rights". We have gun "privileges". If you have to ask a central authority for permission to own a gun of their" choosing, then you don't have rights.


**************************************************************************************************************

Many are upset about further gun control privileges.
Many see this as just a symptom of further government encroachment on all of our "rights".

Anyway, that's my answer.



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:04 PM
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NonsensicalUserName
reply to post by kdyam
 


according to whome? from what has been said violent crime is defined differently in the UK.


Apparently according to you... you keep stating that the statistics reported are different so can you please provide some examples?

I begin to get the feeling I'm talking to Piers Morgan here.



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by kdyam
 


I just have dude.


www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 11-3-2014 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:08 PM
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boymonkey74
reply to post by kdyam
 


I just have dude.


www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 11-3-2014 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)


Ok Boymonkey... thanks for that!



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:09 PM
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Forgive me if this has already been posted. Amendment 2: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Our founding fathers saw it necessary to have an armed populace to ensure the continuity of the freedom and security of these United States. Americans agree. That's why.



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:10 PM
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It really comes down to a simple fact:

We have a society that is much more violent than most places. Even taking out the gun crime, we have crime rates that are absolutely astonishing and double or triple even the next closest country in the first world.

We are a first world nation with third-world violence levels, and so many of us cling so desperately to guns because, without those, one of the best force equalizers in the history of mankind gets taken off the table, and every single man that is smaller than average and the vast majority of women suddenly become a whole lot more vulnerable.

You'll see a lot of people that want to outlaw guns, but I've got news for you: the majority of them have only ever seen guns used to commit murder in areas where restrictions are so bad that they cannot get them legally for defensive purposes.

Or they live in nice, neat, sleepy little communities and have never actually had to live in a dangerous place, either from animals or other human beings, and they refuse to believe that their reality is not the reality that everybody else faces.



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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kdyam

A beating is a beating.. in the US and in the UK.. and is reported as such in both countries... a fight that turns into assault charges is a violent crime... in both countries...

Can you provide some examples of what type of violent crime would be reported in the UK that wouldnt be reported in the US?


Vandalism, home quarrel without actual violence, just screaming (constitutes as causing public fear). No actual injury needs to happen in order for it to constitute as violent crime. Less than half of the violent crimes involved actual injury. No charges need to be pressed, a call for police is enough to count something as violent crime. Something reported = +1 to statistics even if no crime happened.

Any sexual offence counts as violent crime, while in US only rape constitutes one. In UK, about a quarter of sexual offenses counted in stats are rapes. For example, that is also the reason, why Sweden is number one in rape statistics among advanced economies. The legal definition of rapes counts every reporting as one, even if no rape actually happened. In reality, when actual rapes were counted, Sweden had similar stats compared to other nations, but due to change of definition in 05, it seems as if Sweden has twice the amount rapes as in any other advanced country.

I personally believe, the violent crimes are slighly higher in UK than in US though due to the drinking habits. There are lots of drunk offences/bar fights, but generally the difference is significant enough for people to consider UK more "dangerous". Pretty much the same violent crime (non-murder) wise.
edit on 11-3-2014 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 



Keep this in mind...most countries are getting screwed and it's just not the United States and as much as Americans complain about stuff in print and on TV the majority of us would not want to live in any other country...

Media and lets not forget ATS go to great lengths to make points, sometimes at the expense of the truth.
As an American the idea of everyone carrying a gun worries me...what doesn't worry me is my neighbor who has a family and wishes to protect them owning one...It doesn't bother me that the hunter down the street owns a gun for duck and geese hunting..and although I think goose meat is horrible I could care less what he uses to get it...he can hunt with a Howitzer for all I care...if there was zero crime and our government and the world at large was on the up and up..sure no guns needed but I don't speak for everyone on ATS..



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 04:55 PM
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All anyone need ever do in order to have a clear understanding of why guns are so important for the common person to own and have loaded on their person, is to look at what a country is doing in terms of promoting freedoms and liberty, or DEMOTING freedom and liberty. You will never see a country promoting all the freedoms for everyone while trying to take away a gun right.

What you see is a country hell bent on demolishing all kinds of rights, and gun rights IS the number one on their agenda. In this case, it is obvious that the reason is so that the common person would not be able to kill them, or retaliate when the day comes. at least, this is what they (government) are afraid of. It may not be our reason for having them, but it is their reason to try and take them.

In order to be able to herd cattle with minimum effort and error, the cattle can't be allowed to hold the cattle prods can they? This is the only reason they want to take away guns.

Just find the lowest common denominator of all they do. In this case, they are trying to remove practically every right, and bending every law they wish to bend in their favor.



edit on 11-3-2014 by alienreality because: ul



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 05:01 PM
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Cabin
So I would ask : Could someone please me explain the reason for this, as after being in ATS for a while already, that is something I still find incredibly hard to grasp... The importance of guns in American culture


Perhaps the source of your confusion is that when you think of gun rights you focus on the "guns" part and not the "rights" part.

You could probably separate the major players of the gun rights debate (and many other debates) into two camps: those that believe that the US Government is the supreme law of the land, and those that believe that the US Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

I'm in the second group. Most gun owners would probably laugh at what I have, but I don't see the need for a huge arsenal. But I'm not going to tell someone else what they need or dont' need, or what they should or should not have. I accept that the rights of others as guaranteed by the Constitution. I don't have an AK-47, I don't plan on getting one any time soon, but if someone else wants one I support their right to have one. I also believe in the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment. Citizens should have the same rights as the government. If it is illegal for a citizen to own something, it should also be illegal for the government.

Those in the first group have no qualms about the government telling people what rights they have or don't have. They believe that the government should not have to follow any laws that may be inconvenient for the government.







 
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