Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

Sublimecraft
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

Thank-you asen - your contributions here are second to none.

In all of this chaos, my thoughts and prayers are with the innocent and frightened men, women and children whom both sides will have no problem using as cannon fodder and will view as mere collateral damage towards their selfish cause(s).

Oil & Gas behemoths and the Banksters - this whole fiasco stinks of their doing.

Stay safe my friend, protect your family.

hear hear!

I could not have said it better.

reply to post by OptimusCrime


A star for you! I agree. I would back up friends who ask for help, but I think many countries should just build up their own military so they can protect themselves. The U.S. should be protecting it's own borders and manufacturing should return to America. Greedy corporations have a hand in a lot of our troubles.

So, what do the people of Ukraine want? Lets ask them? Peace & freedom perhaps? Or communist control & prison if they speak up for their rights...hmmm. America may not be perfect but I am so very fortunate & grateful that I can speak up on a forum like this without being tortured & thrown in prison. Freedom is still here brothers & sisters!!! Let it reign!

Is there any straight source of what Putin is actually thinking? No modern nation in this day and age is actually looking to pursue in legit war games, with the fact all modern nations have been stock piling for the past 60 years tens of thousands or more of missiles and bombs and weaponry and drones. There were heavy protests in that area, just as America sent troops to Iraq and Afghanistan and Egypt when they were having political tumult, could it not be that Putin truly thought he is, and truly is, doing the right thing by sending personal to stabilize a violently revolting population? IF! He is doing this for any other reasons it is most likely economic, Olympics cost a ton of money, maybe this will jolt some economies.

The thing that really scares me about this situation is, as many of us know, the global economy has been propped up by nothing but imaginary 'stimulus' for quite some time. Many of us believe that a correction (collapse) is already long overdue. Whenever economies have been in trouble in the past the answer has always been war. Real war.


Will they see this as a way to pre-empt the collapse so many of us think was coming? I hope not, but if they do it will be up to us, the little people, to stand up and say we will not let it happen again. I think we may have a chance this time. The corruption and greed of the world's governments, corporations, and banks has reached more and more people over the years as the internet has started to come into it's adolescence. We may have the critical mass we need.

I'm ready to do just that, and many of my friends are as well.

Stay safe my friends!

rjbaggins
Greedy corporations have a hand in a lot of our troubles.

America IS a corporation. All countries are corporations, thats the only reason for them being a country and having borders.

reply to post by ImaFungi


Now this is the most interesting part, I don't think anyone knows what Putin is upto, and that's scarey.

petite
So, what do the people of Ukraine want? Lets ask them? Peace & freedom perhaps? Or communist control & prison if they speak up for their rights...hmmm. America may not be perfect but I am so very fortunate & grateful that I can speak up on a forum like this without being tortured & thrown in prison. Freedom is still here brothers & sisters!!! Let it reign!

That is a very naive way of viewing the situation. Large numbers of Ukrainians support Russia and identify as ethnic Russians. The numbers are in the millions, so to suggest that everyone in the Ukraine supports 'murican freed'm is not entirely accurate. Sure, they want to be free. But they also want to be free from EU austerity measures. It's a complicated issue, with complicated history going back hundreds of years. The country is divided on the issue, with the majority of Ukrainians in the central parts of the country and in the west in support of the EU, and those in the east and the south in support of Russia.

I don't think this is WWIII just my opinion of course, but I think it will be contained geographically. I think it could be the start of a mini cold war, and by mini --like a 2-6 year cold period. Remember that there was a whole block of communist countries during the last cold war that are not Russian any longer. It won't be that bad...I think there will be some pretty heavy resistance to this war in Russia itself. I also, don't think this will be a huge economic bust for the world economy. Ukraine, yes...I think they're already strained and this will cause some serious turmoil. As if there wasn't turmoil enough there. Editing to add, that by turmoil, I just think that the Ukraine will be on shaky economic ground for a good ten years no matter the outcome of this conflict.

How much of this about empty ICB promises to groups in the Ukraine of wealth and freedom if they borrow a bunch of money and sell their public assets.

And when things go wrong, the people of the US are supposed to clean up the mess. How much longer are people going to continue to fall for this trick.

For those interested, Zero Hedge is reporting that the masked and unmarked soldiers which have been photographed guarding and occupying government buildings in the Crimea are from the Russian 76th Chernihov (Pskov) Storm Troops Division.

more info here

Edit to add:

I hate to be that guy, but I also found this quite interesting.

I know this may sound stupid to some.....but is there any chance putin doesn't want the expense of the Paralympics. any chance he has brought all this forward because it kills two birds with one stone ???

before you flame me just think about it for a minute. he kept quiet all during the Olympics to have his moment in the spotlight of the world.

everyone knows the expense of staging the Olympics and you cant have one without the other. so......he shuts his mouth for 2 weeks...then says "lets go". no one is going to send athletes to the region with all this going on. and he avoids the expense of staging the more expensive part of the Olympics

double post

petite
So, what do the people of Ukraine want? Lets ask them? Peace & freedom perhaps? Or communist control & prison if they speak up for their rights...hmmm. America may not be perfect but I am so very fortunate & grateful that I can speak up on a forum like this without being tortured & thrown in prison. Freedom is still here brothers & sisters!!! Let it reign!

We are somewhat fortunate... for now.

But the way things are headed, America will not be a free country unless you have enough money to pay for it.

The way it is in Ukraine is millions of people want to be part of Russia, while others want to be part of the E.U. The problem with the E.U. is they are crumbling financially, and need the IMF to loan them their currency thus putting them into debt forever.

The "Freedom" that the West advertises comes at a cost, and that is debt slavery. Don't be fooled.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

I hate to be that guy, but I also found this quite interesting.

There is no such thing as EX IDF.

Now if we could find the CIA teams, the Germans, French and British this would all be a bit easier.

Unmasking the Mercenaries paid for by Big Oil and the energy sector would complete the puzzle.

What gets me in this thread is people screaming Democracy!

The last Democratic Government in the Ukraine was ousted and an a guy was let out of prison to be the new President!

If that does not shriek to the world THE PUPPET MASTERS ARE AT IT AGAIN I don't know what will.

Russia does not want to be surrounded by NATO bases. It is that simple! Let alone let the Billions paid by Russia for infrastructure to just slip into Western hands.

Putin will act, not against the Ukraine people, they are just the pawns.

He is acting against the West, that is, against the Multinationals.

This is in actual fact the Multinationals verses Putin.

IMHO

God help us, but, he never does.

P

My heart goes out to the people of the Ukraine....The people in the Ukraine......right now I believe there will be armed resistance to any Russian move that usurps the power of the Kiev government, or Attempts to coopt provinces of the Ukraine.
The question that is burning in my mind is
How well armed are the Ukrainian Nationalists?
Do they have heavy weapons?Tanks?
Or even light infantry equipment... mortars..heavy and light/medium machine guns..anti aircraft capabilities either shoulder fired or guns....
What kind of a threat can they actually present to the heavily armoured typical Russian division size unit or even smaller....
that will come with air support and its own artillery....
Seems to me they would be terribly outgunned at the outset....
The chances of such militias attacking such superior forces as the Russians present with any success are not nil but far from high....
The Ukranian Army has two separate entities to deal with should push come to shove...and I fear this may also be part of their undoing....
Unless the nationalist forces share command and control....the thing could get very bloody immediately...
Though the defeat or annihilation of pro west militias may be the spur to enter the war on NATOs obligation...
How well armed are the average Ukrainian citizens?
Do they possess quasi military weapons etc legally in the Ukraine?
The likelihood of protracted warfare in the Ukraine ala Afghanistan or Iraq is high should Russia attempt to seize the whole enchilada and take in the Crimea....
It is even possible that the bankers wish to see the fighting continue for years...

reply to post by Oksus


To continue the chess analogy, what it reminds me of is the situation where someone has your queen and your rook forked with their knight so that you can only save one or the other.

1. If the Budapest Memorandum is interpreted to mean that the US and Britain must defend the Ukraine against a Russian military incursion, it potentially leads directly to WWIII.

2. If the US and Britain say the Budapest Memorandum doesn't require defending the Ukraine and they do essentially nothing, then other countries have no reason to believe that they can rely on the US or Britain to fulfill mutual defense treaties and likely NATO's role in the world will be marginalized as well.

My guess is the second possibility is most likely and is likely what Putin expects as well. But I'm pretty sure Putin must have considered the other possibility as well.

reply to post by asen_y2k


Meanwhile around the world:

Tensions keep rising between China and Japan

North korea accused of provocations by south korea for firing 4missiles into the sea

Israel prepares for another war with Lebanon,should Hezbollah respond their airstrikes from earlier this week


So you see,what i am worried about is that this Ukraine-Russia thing going on will spark things that will not be easily contained...

reply to post by ikonoklast


Spot on mate, but the more I hear and read the less I can tell exactly which one it is.