Why can't some ATSers differentiate between Transgender vs Transsexual?

Kali74
Personally I haven't read much science on gender and DNA but I think it stands to reason that humans could have the same coding albeit generally inactive, that allows for gender to not be so easily defined.

Well that would be an interesting topic to follow up on with a thread

I'll be looking forward to it.

SLAYER69

Phage
And of course, the majority is always right.

Never implied that.

"That's the way the vast majority on Earth View them"

I got it.

Many Did not.

Peace

because some people simply don't care.

What ever you want to do, or call yourself is your business.

I believe in your right to do it, or claim it.

Just don't expect me to take the time to bother with it.

As is my right, Ill leave you to yours, leave me to mine.

gardener
Sorry if it sounds like a rant at hello. But to me, it's such a fundamental, you know, like Phys Ed 101. My theory is we are so engrained into seeing dichotomies in America, ie, dem vs rep, black vs white, gay vs straight, etc

A transgender is someone who changed their gender role (as opposed to what gender they were initially raised as)

A transsexual is someone who changed their sex; ie MTF or FTM (and it actually doesn't necessarily mean they change their gender role).

Yes a man can chose to be castrated, have a vagina constructed, yet still associate with being a man as far as gender

Why did I create yet another topic about gender identity? Because it seems to be possibly the majority here do not seem to deny ignorance as far as gender vs sex

transsexual is still transgender to me!

You cant change your sex! Not unless you can change your DNA!

You can only be transgender.

SLAYER69

gardener
My theory is we are so engrained into seeing dichotomies in America, ie, dem vs rep, black vs white, gay vs straight, etc

I disagree with your observation.

Unless there is a genetic fluke and a child is born with some form of physical abnormality they are physically Male or Female.

That's the way the vast majority on Earth View them

Sexual preference on the other hand is sexual preference.

What one chooses to do with or to their own bodies is their choice.

Exactly.

do what you like with your bodys.


But dont expect me to recognise you for anything other than the sex you were born with.

Phage
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

That's the way the vast majority on Earth View them

And of course, the majority is always right.


While primary sexual characteristics are indeed bipolar, it does seem that it can go deeper than that.
snarkytransman.tumblr.com...

And India recognized 4 sexes,

If anything, human consensus, or lack there of, in general is a piss poor measure of anything.

Either is a bad argument, positive or negative.

To put in another way.

Id employ a transgender person. They can wear high heels and skirts to work if they like as long as its smart.

But they still have to use the male toliets and changing rooms as they are still male.

crazyewok
transsexual is still transgender to me!

You cant change your sex! Not unless you can change your DNA!

You can only be transgender.

While we as mammals cannot change our sex through natural process, though it may be possible in the future with stem cells, for an XX to have viable testes and produce viable sperm, and an XY person to have a uterus and ovaries and carry a fetus.

Many other species are indeed transsexual, many fish species for example change sex as part of their life cycle.

jrod


Many other species are indeed transsexual, many fish species for example change sex as part of their life cycle.

Last time I checked humans were not fish.......

Il run a DNA test in my lab if you like but im pretty sure of the results

It would be odd to find someone who is transexual but not living as the sex they have been reassigned to. You need to live as that sex for a least a year before surgery.
Your terminology is confusing.
I think the common understand would be tranvestites who go from just dressing all the way up to living as the opposite sex and transexual who has had the operation.

Why can't some ATSers differentiate between Transgender vs Transsexual?

Short answer.

Because I don't care. You are what you are and I leave it at that. It's not that hard.

reply to post by jrod


Not every person is born XX or XY.

2nd line

reply to post by crazyewok




Yeah.... Women should look like this... with guns!!






Picture from this site

LINK

gardener
@ SLAYER69

Yes?

My whole point is that male sex does not equal man (masculine) gender
and likewise with female.

Never implied that as well. Physically male and female is just that 'Physically' Being masculine or feminine is on the inside if that's how the individual feels on the inside. I've known some very masculine females and very feminine males that were very heterosexual.

If one is refuting that, then one is claiming to deny/ignore gender rights.

I'm not going to refute it, but if you're looking for 'Special Rights' then forget it. We should all be equal however God/Nature made us.

jrod
reply to post by jrod

 

Not every person is born XX or XY.

2nd line

99.9999999999999999999999999% are

True hemphordites are extremly rare.

reply to post by crazyewok


I think it is closer to 1 in 1,000 or .1% and becoming more common to due pollution caused birth defects. The US has over 300,000,000 people.

That is over 300,000 people in the US who by genetics are intersex.

reply to post by crazyewok


No you can't change your DNA nor your chromosomes, so whatever your x and y chromosome pattern is what your sex is (male or female or a mix of both), however sometimes people are born with chromosome patterns that don't match their genitalia. A genetic female can be born with a penis and a genetic male can be born with a vagina or the chromosomes could be patterned to be both male and female at the same time and the genitalia can be not clearly defined or both can very defined and present. So a person can change their gender to match their sex.

Personally I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to identify a person by what the person chooses to be identified as. It's just common courtesy IMO.

gardener


"There is no gene for transsexualism, but many genes each with a tiny effect"

Interestingly little peak at an organic/genetic basis for behavioral patterns.

To me it seems like many transgenders equate "gender" with "gender roles" . When a person born as a female says "I feel like a boy, I am a boy trapped in a girls body" I cannot help but think that what the person really relates to is gender roles, not genders. And that is cultural, not natural.

How can a person know how he or she is supposed to feel like as a member of the other sex - or as their own? I cannot see how you can have any other pointers than those given by society, and again, that's cultural, not natural.

To me that means that transgenders conforms to society and denies nature; "your gender roles are a-okay, even though the behavioral rules they set do not fit me. I am not how I am expected to be. It must be I that is the problem. I blame nature!"


That said, do whatever floats your boat - be happy, go by whatever gender you see fit, and I will call you by your chosen name and gender - as I told my sister-gone-brother - but to me, gender will always be determined by chromosomes.

Perhaps someone someday will find a way to explain the logic in transgenders being victims (for lack of a better word) of nature and not culture, and then I will change my mind.

It kind of seems as though this persistent 'people are born hermaphrodites' argument is implying that for all intents and purposes, everyone is born fluidly sexless. Or should be. But what an outrage it would be to be constrained by physical reality.

Kali74
reply to post by crazyewok

 

Personally I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to identify a person by what the person chooses to be identified as. It's just common courtesy IMO.

Im a devout christian (as if that matters, but I preference this with that)

I work with a Transgender man, for the sake of this, Ill state him as a Man.

Why because, everyone around him responds to him in such a manner, He is 6'6, Largely built male, who is on hormones, yet by no measure can he "pass".

Nicest person you could meet, but it is a daily "struggle" I can see it, every-time someone refers to him as a "he" or "him" they disregard what is clearly a lot of effort on his part.

I was raised to be polite, if I don't agree with you great, but thats no reason not to part amicably with someone.

I call him HER, why because clearly he is making that effort and wants that, it cost me nothing, it takes nothing from me to call someone by what they would like to.

But that's not the norm, Society sees him as a giant soar thumb sticking out as "different", people, at least people I have seen interacting with the person, treat him differently, and sadly many seem to take some smug pleasure in calling him a HE to his face.


I may not agree with it, I may think there is some ethical or moral issue with it, I may even think it is a perversion, but in public and polite society I best keep my mouth shut.

He has a right to his pursuit of happiness, and my mine, and his actions do not effect mine, there is no reason to hurt another human being, lifes tough enough with out each of us going out of our way to make someone elses day a little worst.