Why can't some ATSers differentiate between Transgender vs Transsexual?

benrl

We are all still just tribal nomads hiding in caves, afraid of that which is different, because different might kill us.

Of all the things we talk about on the site this is probably the most important.

You want Aliens? Guess what, they don't want to meet us.

You want to fight the Powers that be? Guess what, you can't, because your still afraid of your neighbor.

You want alternative energies and space travel? Guess what, we still deem it more important to kill than to educate.


The sad case of humanity, can't even stop fighting each other at the best of times.

Best post I've read in a long time.

reply to post by SLAYER69

I'm who I am no matter what others think.

Is your gender no part of the way you view yourself?
Maybe you have it easy, your gender matches your naughty bits. That isn't really true for everyone though. But you think it's a matter of preference. I have a hard time understanding how someone could "prefer" that they were so mismatched.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


It's an expression of individuality to say I'm _______.

reply to post by Phage


Yes it is BUT I don't go around proclaiming it in marches and demand special rights or attention every chance I get.

SLAYER69
reply to post by Phage

 

I think the problem arises in the delivery.

I am who I am no matter what others think.

edit on 10-2-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Slayer, I think most things in the LGBT community could be solved in this manner.

As an example, personally don't think the government has a right to tell me who I can marry.

And I am a straight male, married to a women.

The fact that I had to "get" the government approval (license) is a level of BS that down right agrivates my personal sense of liberty.

I love my wife, and considered myself "married" to her no matter what anyone had told me, or gave me permission for.

One example of what I feel was a Huge miss by that community, I would of been all for "who the hell are you to give me permission" rather than "Please please make us equal" Any day.

It goes on and on, but personally I consider myself a bit of a true Anarchist, do what you please, just leave me alone.

And not to derail,

But anyone else amazed at the Quality and caliber of post and posters in this meager 4 flag thread?

Perfect example of why I love ATS,

Phage, Slayer, Wrabbit, and all the rest great job, feels all around, group hug.

Why I god damn love ats...

lol.

SLAYER69
reply to post by Phage

 

Yes it is BUT I don't go around proclaiming it in marches and demand special rights or attention every chance I get.

Because you don't need to. You fit the 'norm'. If I were a gay man (I use man because lesbianism is almost celebrated if the lesbians are not masculine), as 1st a safety precaution I would want people to understand what being a gay man is so that they see I am no threat, that me being a gay man wouldn't be passed on to them, that I wouldn't make any straight guy uncomfortable by hitting on him. This is important so that I'm not killed or beaten up continuously. Next I would want to find others like myself, not just to find a partner but friends I can identify with (a culture evolves). Then ultimately I would want to be myself in society not act as if I'm doing something to be ashamed of, to be proud of who I am... for other gay people to walk with their heads held high, so that my whole society sees me as equal and as deserving of everything that everyone else is deserving of.

What special rights or special anything are they asking for?

For the record.


I'm not "anti" anything. I'm cool with Male, Female, Other.

Just don't ask for extra or special or MORE.

The whole "Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness" applies to "Other" as well how ever they so choose to express themselves IE boots/heals etc.

I'm out

PEACE

They don't differentiate because they probably don't accept your whole "world" you've created.

Everything you said, "transgender" "transexual" These are all made up concepts. Their is nothing real or substantial behind them. Things that exist at the whim of a person's opinion are not real things.

If I wake up tomorrow and say I'm a woman nothing changes. All these labels are just manufactured "subsections"

You are either a standard model man, a standard model woman, or neither. Those differences are very real, biologically speaking.

What makes you a man is your genitals. What makes you a woman is your genitals. Period.

If you, or "trans" people want to say that being a man or a woman is more than just genitals you are playing into your enemy's hands.

"being a man" in a societal aspect is not a real thing. It's fabricated construct of society. It isn't real. "I feel like a man" means nothing without society's programming.

All you are doing is playing into societies programming, and instead of saying "I am a man, who acts as I see fit, regardless how society tells me a man hehave" you are being controlled to think "if I feel this way, I'm a woman, if I feel this way, I'm a man" and then contort yourself to fit that paradigm.

What does feeling like a woman mean? Nothing. It means society has told you if you like certain things, do certain things, act a certain way, you act like a woman. So if you are born a man, act a woman, why do you think you are a woman, and not just a man who acts different from societal norms?

Instead of trying to label and divide everyone by their miniscule differences in feelings and or preferences why don't you just say "I'm a man/woman who lives my life how I damn well please, and I don't need fancy titles or a gender confirming how I'm supposed to act"

You aren't standing up trying to be strong, you are sitting down trying to blend in. Making it normal to be not-normal, instead of being happy and content that you are not.

nymag.com...
there is a new gender that doesn't accept any gender, just throwing that out there.
They prefer they rather then being called he or she.
agenders

If most people are anything like me (and I assume that they are), they just don't care. And there's nothing I can think of that can make me care.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Yes it is BUT I don't go around proclaiming it in marches and demand special rights or attention every chance I get.

What special rights?

reply to post by gardener


now that you have this straightened out, can i go back to not giving a damn?

reply to post by SLAYER69


I agree with this 100%.

Now, if we could just get to where we didn't give them LESS, we would be able to find some equilibrium.

For one thing, transgender and transsexual have really very little to do with actual male and female. I say that because for all we know she was convinced she was supposed to be a he. But, we still call her female. Do you know why? Because the anatomical skeleton gives all the indications that she was a female, and I never hear anyone get upset over this designation even though Lucy might have been transgender and absolutely convinced she was a male trapped in a female body. And why isn't anyone because we'll never know for sure will we?

Similarly, when that day comes, and some archeologist or paleontologist digs up Chaz Bono (for example), he will be renamed and redesignated as female because all that future scientist will be able to tell is that they have the skeleton of a female individual. It won't even help if they happen to get some genetic tissue because Chaz has female DNA. So everything Chaz has done is only for his own psychology because it can't change the fundamental underlying truth of his biology.

As for generating some deep interest in me to learn all this ...

No, you are who you are (not what). If that's what you are, I'll play the game for you. As you can see, Chaz is a he.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Yes it is BUT I don't go around proclaiming it in marches and demand special rights or attention every chance I get.

No - because you don't have to. And let's face it Slayer - we all go around begging for attention of one sort or another - there's no end to the number of ways a person can make a spectacle of themselves. Some are just more popular or accepted than others

You don't have a dog in this fight - so it seems like too much to you

Tell me more about these 'special' rights - I was under the impression that many transgendered/transsexual people were fighting for the right to be what they consider themselves to be - that's all

How is that a special right?

gardener
@ SLAYER69

My whole point is that male sex does not equal man (masculine) gender
and likewise with female.

If one is refuting that, then one is claiming to deny/ignore gender rights.

Nobody cares. Really. You've got this gender thing going and it's all about YOU and YOUR RIGHTS because, today, given the PC nature of things, you can get away with it. But it's also a matter of Civil Rights gone COMPLETELY amok.

Originally, the idea of discrimination was based on the idea that a person could not choose his race, his gender, his national origin, his age, and (to a certain extent) his religion in so far as it amounted to his ethnic identity. But today people can claim Civil Rights violations based on CHOICES THEY MAKE, including their lifestyles, including the idea that they have the "right" to change their genders (or whatever you want to call it) just because they WANT to. The propaganda involved here to justify it is that "they have no choice" because they "were born that way," despite the fact there is a whole lot of evidence that they are "that way" based on social conditioning and weren't "born that way" at all. But you can't say that these days (including here, is my prediction) because it's not politically correct and you have a whole lot of screamers throwing a hissy fit if you do.

The really sad thing, no, the really OUTAGEOUS thing is when these sorts of attitudes are foisted upon children. There is a recent case of a lesbian couple who managed to adopt a boy who, at age five or six, "decided he would rather be a girl." His "two mommies" insist it was his decision alone, and commenced providing hormone treatments so he could turn himself into a girl (rather than a cowboy or an astronaut.)

But are these so-called parents in jail for child abuse? Of course not. They are lauded by the LGBT "community" as "doing the right thing." So if THIS sort of outrage is considered OK, there's nothing stopping you from turning yourself, AND your children, into furry animals because after all, what kid would not want to be a dog? And there are people who like this sort of thing and seek furry animals as partners, so who is to say they cannot? And why not prevent puberty in a sub-group, because, after all, there are pedophiles who are 'that way from birth" so it's discriminating against their civil rights to prevent them from copulating with children.

There's not stopping the absurdity and no dividing line to be drawn because to do so would "violate your civil rights." All it really means is the clear breakdown of society because of self-indulgence. Define yourselves the way you want, but to hell with you insisting on acceptance of such criminal behavior.

reply to post by Kali74


reply to post by Phage


reply to post by Spiramirabilis




Special rights?

In this country, That would be anything that goes above and beyond their normal already established Constitutional Human rights.

They're already covered under the Bill of rights. Unless they want to declare themselves as Non-human, suffice it to say that any violation of those and they should prevail in any court.


What is it exactly are the three of you advocating that's not already covered?

reply to post by schuyler

But today people can claim Civil Rights violations based on CHOICES THEY MAKE, including their lifestyles, including the idea that they have the "right" to change their genders (or whatever you want to call it) just because they WANT to.

That's because it's widely accepted that gender is a straightforward, black and white situation - and it's not

In most Western societies, there exists a gender binary, a social dichotomy that enforces conformance to the ideals of masculinity and femininity in all aspects of gender and sex - gender identity, gender expression and biological sex. Some societies have so-called third gender categories that can be used as a basis for a gender identity by people who are uncomfortable with the gender that is usually associated with their sex; in other societies, membership of any of the gender categories is open to people regardless of their sex.

Some of the research we see today suggests that the development of gender identity is related to genetic or hormonal influences. The biochemical theory of gender identity suggests that we acquire our gender identities through genetic and hormonal factors rather than through socialisation. In the article by Lynda Birke titled “In Pursuit Of Difference, scientific studies of women and men”, it is suggested that sex-determining hormone is produced at the early stage of fetal development. “Ovaries and testes produce hormones,” and “testes produce higher levels of certain hormones (androgen) than do ovaries.” “If the levels of androgens are high, then a penis and scrotum will develop; if they are low, then labia and a clitoris will develop.”[35] When prenatal hormone levels are altered, phenotype progression may be altered as well. Therefore, the natural predisposition of the brain toward one sex may not match the genetic makeup of the fetus, or its external sexual organs. Numerous conditions and variations that have their basis in the prenatal stage can ultimately affect one's gender identity.[36] Possible conditions may result from chromosomal alterations, in which the child doesn't have the normal two chromosomes of XX (female) or XY (male).

It's just science is all - no matter how much culture you want to throw at this - we are born the way we are born, and it them becomes a legitimate civil rights issue because now we know more than we once knew

Simple

reply to post by schuyler


They may very well be born that way. Then again, maybe not.

I have 2 sons. 1 is "very gay", the other....very, very macho male. Both were raised by the same 2 parents, side by side, in the same home. So the social implications you are making may not hold much water.

Or it could be a very complicated mix of proclivities and experiences that result in what/who the person is at the end.

Regardless, "civil rights" need not be applied. Just the basic premise of the golden rule. I could care less what a tranny does under their skirt. None of my business. When it becomes my business will be when we create an adult decision to engage in behavior that involves genitalia.

It would seem to me that it could simply be solved by removing the notions of marriage from government (since marriage is a religious institution and has no place in government), and just treating humans like humans.

What WON'T work is proclaiming that homosexuality is a choice and trying to end the conversation there. My standard response to that is, "Oh, and hwen did you choose to not be gay? And how hard do you fight your homosexual desires so that you can remain straight?"

Some may be able to choose. My son...can't. He has never liked girls. And has always identified himself in a feminine manner (from the age of 2 through today).