Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

Wasn't Vallee's son on a thread here recently on ATS?
Wonder if he'd swing by to help riddle this out?

reply to post by seentoomuch


I'm listening to the coast to coast interview right now.
Dr. Valle is great to listen to.. but he's really being
'scientifically politically correct'. Still a great listen.

Kevin

reply to post by Willtell


Thanks so much, this interview gave more information by far than the 2007 one. I realize he is still under the Non-Disclosure Agreement with Bigelow and the Non-Disclosure with the U.S. Govt. but he let us know that his book "Strategen" is a novel but allows him to speak more freely. Has anyone here read this book? Is it disinfo or real?

In the interview he insinuated that Roswell was an illegal medical experiment gone bad? Also that Rendelsham was a psychological warfare training practice? But that Colares was real! Is he telling the truth or is he disinfo?

He also downplayed the control theory, total 180 from previous interviews, books. Also didn't promote RVing as he did in the 2007 interview when he requested that scientists should study consciousness.

Is he at the age where he says, "What the ----, let's get it out there regardless of all the restraints or is he keeping his books relevant?

Thanks again,

STM

Caver78
Wasn't Vallee's son on a thread here recently on ATS?
Wonder if he'd swing by to help riddle this out?

That would be great! Hope he reads this thread and joins in!

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by seentoomuch

 

I'm listening to the coast to coast interview right now.
Dr. Valle is great to listen to.. but he's really being
'scientifically politically correct'. Still a great listen.

Kevin

Yes, he was being careful imho, loved that he mentioned his novel as a free expression of what he's found so far….. But is this disinfo or real? He's restrained by so many agencies that it would be difficult to say unless we could repeat his findings….

reply to post by seentoomuch


Maybe we should just take him at his word that he hasn't drawn
any firm conclusions yet.. I think that the tendency is to make
him part of some nefarious conspiracy.

Because he stayed so neutral for the most part.. even when
being slightly controversial.. maybe he's actually not under
the gun from an alphabet agency or shadowy group.

Hell, he seems a bit liminal to me.. he might just get away
'with it' and people project assumptions on him that just
aren't true.

Kinda like with me.. I get such strong assumptions projected
onto me.. it's mind blowing.. how wrong people are.. of course
I've been guilty of the same thing.. and recently.. nobody is
fully immune.

I'd also like to say.. that I'm doubtful that so-called sorcerer
spies.. old thule Nazi's.. other shadowy figures.. have made
much progress at all.. far less than everyone assumes..

You can trust me.. at least huge hunks of the 'field' act
like a sentient being who wants to be loved and courted..
those nefarious people who poke and prod the field
couldn't possibly get very far.. you have to love the Lady
(to use a hindu/Shakti/other systems perspective) or you
will NEVER see 'beneath the goddesses veil'... instead you
will meet Kali.. the destroyer of worlds archetype or something
even worse..

Just my opinions.

Kevin

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


He's on the record for the Non-Disclosures.

He has to talk around them.

Nothing to do with Kali or whoever….

reply to post by seentoomuch


I had a secret clearance in nuclear power.
I was part of a secret military operaton agaisnt a middle eastern country.

I don't buy nondisclosure as the major factor....

But that's just my opinion.

There could certainly be factors like that in play to some degree.

Kevin

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


How 'bout he is still on the NIDs board with Bigelow Aerospace. Wonder how much he's paid each year for that seat?

He is being very careful to not interfere with that income which most of us would do.

reply to post by seentoomuch


Well that I'll buy!

The almghty greenback is a powerful control loop.

Good observation.

Kevin

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


I'm just wondering why the downplay of the control factor, its barely mentioned in the interview? He still considers it relevant but it sounds like it is out of reach? What did you get from his brief mention of it?

reply to post by seentoomuch


I just think that every occultist on earth, every spiritual and
religious person on earth began to bombard him wtih their
'answers' about the control loop and he got overwhelmed by
all the BS.

That's my opinion.

He's pretty much removed his email address from the web,
unlike most people in the Aviary even.. he's got to have
had 'enough'.

I feel for the guy.

Scientists won't follow up on his reasearch and 'loonies'
won't even try to research generally..

It's like the's been the lone ranger almost all these years.

Kevin

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Sounds plausible, I hope his son visits and sets the record straight!

I'm going to Amazon now to see what the reviews are for his book.

I never thought I would say that for info on our situation, thought it would be live or amazing in our face somehow, wow, am I falling for disinfo or for money for his heirs?

I work in industrial automation, and when the Dr. speaks of closed and open control, I can equate this to a SCADA system. A SCADA is a supervisory control and data acquisition system commonly used in power plants. In these systems there are 'closed loop' and 'open loop' control system consisting of programmed algorithms when perform a specific function.

For instance, a CLOSED loop control system would be a set of instructions which run automatically -- without intervention. The instructions are programmed and then activated, nothing can interfere. The closed loop control would provide critical functions that would require no outside intervention usually since they are mission critical. This would be like a high speed controller communicating with emergency valves to let off steam when pressure builds to a critical point. Another example would be if a solar inverter at a large solar plant needs to adjust its power factor. The latter is accomplished by a series of SCADA computer reads and writes to data registers based on source data collected in the closed loop from a energy meter. This operation is so reactive power can be generated or consumed dynamically, based on the utility grid conditions and is critical to happen in high speed real-time with 5 second calcualtions.

An OPEN loop system would be the operator sitting at the computer screen (called an HMI - Human Machine Interface) overseeing all of the results of the SCADA systems automatic calculations and power at the meter, or pressure levels. The operator wouldn't necessarily have the ability to intervene in the closed loop system unless there was an emergency override needed. The operator would simply monitor the system and react to alarms. i.e. The entire HMI started to blink red if the closed loop system failed, etc.

Could it be that we, Humans are currently in a closed loop control system like a power plant? We are simply set on automatic and our daily life is executed over, and over again in this fashion? Lets say so, and if one or two of us decide to 'alarm' on the HMI, maybe its not such an an emergency for the operator (Aliens, Creator, Etc), however, if ALOT of us find a way to cause alarms on the whole HMI screen, then the operator would be forced to take notice and intervene? Could we find a way to collectively create some type of disturbance and force a feedback loop traversing the closed loop to the open loop system and create a manifestation of a 'repair tech' to show up before our eyes?? Could this example be what the Dr. in the OP was saying?

Okay, here's one of the reviews from Amazon:

Source: www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1391400336&sr=1-1&keywords=stratagem+vallee:

By Dennis Hawley (Asheville, NC) - See all my reviews

This review is from: Stratagem (Hardcover)
I developed an interest in unusual phenomena as a child, and in particular the UFO phenomenon. That amounted to basically collecting newspaper clippings of sightings, and reading a few of the books that were available at that time (Donald Keyhoe, Frank Scully, etc.). Then, in my early teens, I came upon Jacques Vallee's `Anatomy of a Phenomenon'. It opened up a whole new level of perspective on UFOs. After Vallee's second book, `Challenge to Science', I became a big fan of the author. His pioneering efforts to apply real science to understanding the enigma, as well as the breath and depth of his knowledge, left an indelible impression upon my impressionable mind. Since then, I have read all of his UFO-related books (and even one of his non-UFO books on computer networking), awaiting each one with great anticipation. Of course, I read many, many other authors as well, but Vallee was, and continues to be, preeminent in the field (with all due respect and admiration for the late J. Allen Hynek, James McDonald, John Keel and others).

As those familiar with Vallee know, his views on the nature of the phenomenon began to drift away from the more conventional, `nuts-and-bolts' flying saucers of extraterrestrial origin (ETH) and towards a more metaphysical, if ill-defined, orientation. In his seminal work `Passport to Magonia', Vallee left the reader with an enigmatic but tantalizing bit of speculation: "Perhaps what we search for is no more than a dream that, becoming part of our lives, never existed in reality. We cannot be sure that we study something real, because we do not know what reality is..."

Vallee continued to develop his ideas, culminating in his highly recommended trilogy, `Dimensions', `Confrontations' and `Revelations' (reportedly his last works on the topic as an active UFO researcher). In `Revelations', Vallee began to crystallize his thinking, stating that the "genuine UFO phenomenon...is associated with a form of nonhuman consciousness that manipulates space and time in ways we do not understand." While he doesn't completely discount the notion that this "nonhuman intelligence" may be from some other planet, he observes that "if there is a form of life and consciousness that operates on properties of space-time we have not yet discovered, then it does not have to be extraterrestrial. It could come from anyplace and any time..."

`Stratagem', while a fictional novel, is clearly an effort by Vallee to develop his ideas to conclusion. In that regard, it's much like his previous novel, `Fastwalker'. It's speculative, but presents the author's view on the origin of the phenomenon (or at least one possible origin) as an expression of his many years of empirical research.

The story centers around the high-powered Mark Harris, a financial whiz who becomes head of a high tech firm on the verge of unveiling a promising new technology, his long-time friend and business colleague (and through whose eyes the story is told), Robert, and Mark's son Ricky. One the verge of an IPO, the pressure requires Mark to take a vacation in Brazil with his son, with Robert invited to join. There, in the Amazon basin, the three of them experience an event that forever changes their lives, which ultimately sets in motion Harris' `Stratagem' to uncover the truth behind their incredible experience.

As a novel, it's a gripping account taken from the annals of UFO literature: the shocking and profound personal experience, the frustration and anguish of trying to extract answers from the military, politicians and supposed `experts', only to face derision, obfuscation and, ultimately, the realization that no one really has any answers (an important element of the book), the damaging effect on one's life and the resolve to carry on the search for answers. The story moves briskly, and fleshes out the main characters sufficiently to allow the reader to empathize with their plight. I sat down with the book and read it straight through, anxious to begin each new chapter. While somewhat less complex than `Fastwalker', it provided the same sense of excitement and anticipation found in that earlier work.

Vallee has skillfully incorporated elements of real life UFO facts, such as the Paul Bennewitz case, the Robertson Panel and more. He uses the story to call out the `true believers', skeptics and, most significantly (and critically), mainstream science. For those familiar with the subject, such inclusions help build the foundation for the unexpected but satisfying conclusion.

Assuming that Vallee in fact offers his ultimate take on the nature of the UFO phenomenon in the guise of a fictional novel, the question arises: does his conclusion make sense? Could his fictionalized hypothesis really be that elusive answer he's long hinted at? For this reader, the answer is an emphatic `yes'. While it does present a mind-blowing idea that some may have trouble conceptualizing, it is a logical extrapolation of the ideas he has been developing for many years. If he has uncovered the truth, it would provide rationality and logic to the many seemingly absurd aspects of this enigma.

Okay, well, it seems to be mainly Colares, so I might give it a go, just don't know….

Has anyone read it and what are your impressions of it? Does the control come into play?

GodKilla

Could it be that we, Humans are currently in a closed loop control system like a power plant? We are simply set on automatic and our daily life is executed over, and over again in this fashion? Lets say so, and if one or two of us decide to 'alarm' on the HMI, maybe its not such an an emergency for the operator (Aliens, Creator, Etc), however, if ALOT of us find a way to cause alarms on the whole HMI screen, then the operator would be forced to take notice and intervene? Could we find a way to collectively create some type of disturbance and force a feedback loop traversing the closed loop to the open loop system and create a manifestation of a 'repair tech' to show up before our eyes?? Could this example be what the Dr. in the OP was saying?

edit on 2-2-2014 by GodKilla because: (no reason given)

Wow! Count me in to join with a group to find answers. What would we have to do to achieve a group disturbance? Good catch!

reply to post by seentoomuch


We would simply need to break the closed loop control system. Not allow it to execute, which will cause an alarm and the EDI or ETI to show up and 'fix it'.

We would need a lot of the human population on Earth to rebuke their daily reasons for existence, no tall order. Humans first need to believe in ETI/EDI to begin with.

This is what the military is suppressing. Mass disclosure, since this would defiantly cause the closed loop system to fail.

GodKilla
reply to post by seentoomuch

 

We would simply need to break the closed loop control system. Not allow it to execute, which will cause an alarm and the EDI or ETI to show up and 'fix it'.

We would need a lot of the human population on Earth to rebuke their daily reasons for existence, no tall order. Humans first need to believe in ETI/EDI to begin with.

This is what the military is suppressing. Mass disclosure, since this would defiantly cause the closed loop system to fail.

Jacques, is that you?

Well, okay, so we need a full disclosure on a planetary level for them to show themselves. And when they show up we'll hold steady and do "Whatever It Takes", right?

reply to post by seentoomuch


what if the system being 'broken' is an acceptable state?
Then no 'repair bot' would be dispatched.
Maybe in fact, that is the condition this world is in.

Everyone wants some old man with a long white beard
to be sitting on a tall mountain running things the way
human can conceptualize.

But maybe things evolve in fits and bursts.. with no
'planning at all'. That's almost certainly the way the
rest of nature evolves.. there is not one tiny trace
of 'intelligent design' to be found anywhere.. at
least when it comes to DNA.

Now I guess that I personally argue for something resembling
non-random events that have an effect.. but if it's really
at a non-rational, primitive level like Vallee seems to be
saying, then maybe the control loops are in part
"non-intelligent, but still sentient" Design.

I appreciate the input on control loops Godkilla

Kevin

reply to post by GodKilla


According to Vallee this was attempted in the middle ages:

The famous Cabalist Zedechias, in the reign of your Pepin, took it into his head to convince
the world that the Elements are inhabited by those peoples whose nature I have just
described to you. The expedient of which he bethought himself was to advise the Sylphs to
show themselves in the Air to everybody: They did so sumptuosly. These beings were seen
in the Air in human form, sometimes in battle array marching in good order, halting under
arms, or encamped beneath magnificent tents; sometimes on wonderfully constructed aerial
ships, whose flying squadrons roved at the will of the Zephyrs.
What happened? Do you suppose that ignorant age would so much as reason as to the nature
of these marvellous spectacles? The people straightaway believed that sorcerers had taken
possession of the Air for the purpose of raising tempest and bringing hail upon their crops.
The learned theologians and jurists were soon of the same opinion as the masses. The
Emperor believed it as well; and this ridiculous chimera went so far that the wise
Charlemagne, and after him Louis the Debonair, imposed grievous penalties upon all these
supposed Tyrants of the Air.

from Dimensions: A Casebook of Alien Contact
by Jacques Vallee