Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

a reply to: Zedoo

hahaha...shamanic son, systems analysis theory on another level. not a flip on what it is. actually what it is regarding this topic. im done on ats now. cheers.

a reply to: The GUT

It makes more sense to me that this is all occult and esoteric. We are plugged into the collective consciousness. Belief fashions confirmation, this is an example of what mass belief can materialize. Then when you look at ancient belief systems with fire gods water gods air gods etc etc, and the fact all those secret societies are ball deep in the occult and esoteric teachings it is clear that consciousness is not just ours, to get a clearer picture we should go back to the old thought, let's stare at a flame and chant at the moon, let's have sex on the dirt to help grow our crops and worship the earth.... The point is if it's big eyed big headed demons we think they look like then that's what we will see, there does not need to be an outside force creating the phenomenon, it could all be consciousness induced.

originally posted by: ManyMasks

The point is if it's big eyed big headed demons we think they look like then that's what we will see, there does not need to be an outside force creating the phenomenon, it could all be consciousness induced.

That's certainly a contender for an explanation. At least for some of it. Your Lady Fatima example is a good one.

Of course that's an example Vallee has been using for decades to make some of his points and it resurfaced again in Diana Pasulka's new book American Cosmic---which features much input from Jacques and is a cheerleader for his theories and musings.

originally posted by: Cology
Valleee had it right in a Joseph Campbell sense, but he had it all wrong at the same time. Valley rightly believed the phenomena was real. Vallee was also reasonably correct using a “control system” analogy. Where he got it all wrong is that UFOs are NOT the mysterious control system... like fairies and Bigfoot, Jesus and ghosts, UFOs are what happens when the CONTROL SYSTEM BREAKS DOWN.

I'm not sure that I agree with your assertion that such phenomenon are what happens when the Control System Breaks down, that may be the case in some occurrences but I think that it is also likely that they are sometimes a consequence of the control system receiving ambiguous information through the sensory relays of the central nervous system which require calls for additional inputs from the imagination and memory to compensate in order to communicate the need to flight or fight to the conscious mind.

While some events and experiences can be wholly ascribed to homeostatic regulation others can be seen as pre-emptive and protective.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

So a person that is adapted to running marathon distances might be statistically predisposed to flight solutions?
Perhaps this is why about 5 percent of the passengers stranded on the Norwegian cruise liner chose to be rescued by helicopter in the midst of a storm rather than wait for the engineers to fix the engines?

originally posted by: Slichter
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

So a person that is adapted to running marathon distances might be statistically predisposed to flight solutions?

I would have thought that'd be unlikely given the discipline that such a person would have in monitoring their homeostatic functions regularly under endurance conditions. I would guess, but lacking in such self-discipline, it would be a very tenuous guess, that such a person would be less subject to the flight/fight response and better able to rapidly engage and react according to ambiguity being far less reliant on instinctive functions.

originally posted by: Slichter
Perhaps this is why about 5 percent of the passengers stranded on the Norwegian cruise liner chose to be rescued by helicopter in the midst of a storm rather than wait for the engineers to fix the engines?

I'm not familiar with the incident so I don't really know which turned out to be the better or more rational choice.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I stand corrected, sprinters that jump at the starting gun would of course be more likely to respond to an emergency flight signal.

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

In the Movie Close Encounters the scientist Claude Lacombe who initially found the planes from "flight 19" was supposedly a character based on Dr. Vallee.
There have been revelations that would serve as feedback concerning the disappearance of "flight 19" over the years.
Some military members in their 90's wanting the truth to be known provided supporting information.
Navy compartmentalized knowledge might prevent certain scenarios from ever being published in the MSM.
For example if the planes from flight 19 ditched as a group and the pilots were rescued by a submarine.
The movie Close Encounters of the third kind was potentially designed to be a source of disclosure.
There are likely people who could put the CK puzzle together.

originally posted by: Slichter
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I stand corrected, sprinters that jump at the starting gun would of course be more likely to respond to an emergency flight signal.

I don't know that they would. Sprinters, sprint in response to the starter's gun. They prepare themselves and await it, the goal being to respond as quickly as possible to it. It is not a reflex, it is a reaction to an anticipated event. Hearing a starting gun in a situation removed from that would not, I assume, ellicit the same response.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout


There is the theory that sprinters are genetically different than long distance runners due to a higher percentage of fast twitch VS slow twitch muscle fibers. The same might hold true for respondents. Vallee is 78 years old and would likely have been washed up as a sprinter in the early 70's.

Wiki states that Vallee is still alive perhaps now a rater of the ON?

a reply to: The GUT


Boy how time flies. I absolutely forgot my early contribution to this fine thread by one of ATS’s great contributors GUT, 5 years ago.

At the time I somewhat adhocly did a quick study of Valle’s control system and concluded certain things about it.

I am fine with those conclusions still. Yet since then, I have read more of Valle’s work and I am ready to add to my ideas concerning this control system notion of his.

Since studying Vallee’s work more in-depth one has no choice but to form a great admiration for his contribution and dedication to ufology and information technology, and unlike the posturing Al Gore, he truly can be said to be one of the pioneers of the internet.

Vallee is sort of an intellectual jack of all trades, a wonderful attribute for a modern man. But I truly believe he’s probably most expert in computer network technology and ufology.

His knowledge of occultism, and mysticism I think is superficial. Even though Vallee has hung out with some of the well-known western occultists of our time.

It occurs to me that Vallee may have been cryptic because he very well may have been referring to ceremonial magick—with a k, of course, in his " control system" notion.

More likely, though…

Of course, Valle was using the technical and mechanical engineering term “control system” as a metaphor or possible analog to explain a definition of the ufo phenomenon.


Think open or closed control system as one, closed control system being like a toaster, and an open one like a thermostat or cruise control in a car, which demands feedback.

One has an input or feedback capacity and the other doesn’t; its self-contained like the toaster


So, what is Vallee trying to say? What’s his logic here, of course considering his vagueness.

In analyzing this we can look at Valle’s ongoing frustration with the ufo investigations from the angle of the American intel community and the traditional ufologists. He has always been frustrated because the people involved always lacked objectivity: either the IC community were to predatory or the ufologists were too obsessional and credulous towards any old screwball, unscientific theories.


One, he saying it may be as a computer program…a daemon( not a demon)

quote]
A daemon (pronounced DEE-muhn) is a program that runs continuously and exists for the purpose of handling periodic service requests that a computer system expects to receive. The daemon program forwards the requests to other programs (or processes) as appropriate.
www.google.com...

He’s suggesting that science may be able to penetrate this program.

I suggested earlier they may have very crudely done this through, for example, the Milab operations, though these weren’t done for science purposes but opportunistically predatory purposes by the governments involved.

Vallee may know of this, being so close to these IC people. He’s frustrated because they did this for the wrong reasons. That’s why he’s been so vague, I suggest.

Vallee is saying we should try to penetrate this control system, sort of like a hacker penetrates a computer system network but here Vallee wants to do some science and manipulate the feedback mechanism.

The only problem is that they can’t really understand the ufo control system which Vallee calls a tall order to penetrate. Well, he’s probably right about that.


Umm.. Very interesting.

Later...

Anyone have a chance to listen to Vallee on Coast to Coast this past weekend?

Vallee’s control system IMO is just not that deep a concept. It's actually kind of lightweight intellectually.

One wonders, was he doing an ulterior agenda, such as revealing some of what he knows that he can’t say publicly.

Vallee has put out tremendous information in his diary journals basically because he was so close to so many known, and unknown ufologists, parapsychologists, occultists and new age types like Puharich and also his close work with the CIA’s Kit Green and Puthoff, and other government agents.

The man was all over the place! He knew everybody there was to know in the ufo/occult/parapsychological world.

One can sum up this very intimate world of these kinds of people in what one of the occultists said to Vallee. She said they were in what the Buddhists call The Red circle. Therefore, they are intimately touched by this kind of knowledge. I don’t think anyone could have explained that any better than this woman.

The question is did this red circle get any real knowledge?

originally posted by: Willtell

Vallee is sort of an intellectual jack of all trades, a wonderful attribute for a modern man. But I truly believe he’s probably most expert in computer network technology and ufology...

...It occurs to me that Vallee may have been cryptic because he very well may have been referring to ceremonial magick—with a k, of course, in his " control system" notion.

Hiya, Will! Glad you dropped back in.

The cast of IC-related characters that have been muddying up the ufological waters for decades are all of the mystical persuasion in their private pursuits (as well as their professional activities whenever possible.) "Consciousness" also comes up a lot in their theorems and pursuits. And rightfully so imo.

We also know that the mystics and adepts of all ages have claimed to be in contact with non-human intelligences in one way or another.

I'm still of the mind that Vallee was, for one, talking about the manipulation of contactees and experiencers in regards to counter-manipulating the "control system."

Another aspect of that might be creating--or latching onto--a myth such as Skinwalker Ranch and seeing what data might be shaken out of the phenomena.

In some of his writings Vallee speaks at some length about how fictional aspects of his and others writings (spoon-bending, blue orbs, etc.) seemed to him to make the jump from fiction to real life and as such the phenomena might be a product or by-product of human consciousness.

Like you I am torn in my feelings about Vallee. He's one of the most impressive intellects I've come across in a lifetime of reading. He identifies and asks profound questions. Penetrating questions that by their very nature either suggest answers or at the very least reveal the weakness in certain theories.

On the other hand his associates and associations seem to have ultimately left him compromised in various ways. He remains, to me, almost as much of a mystery as the mysteries he pursues.

originally posted by: coursecatalog
Anyone have a chance to listen to Vallee on Coast to Coast this past weekend?

I didn't. I always appreciate your contributions, CC, and would love to hear your thoughts on the interview though.

I'd be curious about the interview as well, although I'm guessing nothing major was revealed

a reply to: The GUT

On the other hand his associates and associations seem to have ultimately left him compromised in various ways. He remains, to me, almost as much of a mystery as the mysteries he pursues.

It's not easy to reject peer pressure unless one has another powerful ideology to fall back on…As far as I know, the only thing Vallee had to fall back on was his own independent nature. Something, btw, he spoke about often. I doubt even that was enough for him to forestall the pressure on him to adapt to the powers around him.

a reply to: The GUT

I thought you might want this in here as well. I wanted to paste the recounting of my brief encounter with Kit in here, so here you go:
ATS Thread-My Speculative Hypothesis In Regards To The Recent DeLonge Bigelow TTSA AATIP Flap

Met Kit once, by the way. I confronted him about his what I considered to be inane statement regarding experiencers and his opinion that they were either on drugs or ought to be. He said I ought to be on drugs. This was upsetting to me, and then our mutual friend led me away. I had raised my voice slightly which had probably scared the old guy. I have a powerful voice, so when I raise it it tends to freak some people plumb out. That was it. Our conversation didn't last a minute. It was many years ago. Sometime in the nineties.