When did the "terrorists" become so advanced?

Granted, I was in high school around the time 9/11 took place and may have not been paying as much attention as I am now, but when did the terrorists become so advanced? I don't seem to recall terrorism being as much of a "threat" pre 9/11 as it is now. It's like all of a sudden they were able to infiltrate the USA and have become this highly organized organization. I'm not sure you can go a day without hearing about some kind of terrorism. So I ask what changed to make these people, who have been around for years, such an ominous threat?

reply to post by stopbeingnaive


Best way to explain this is to tell you to go read a history book

I mean there was the embassy attacks in Africa and the Attack on the USS Cole both committed by Al-Qa'ida, its not like they just showed up one day, they were a well known threat even before 9/11

but really if you read the history of Al-Qa'ida you will start to see that this wasn't just some threat that suddenly popped up 12 years ago. 9/11 was just another chapter in the history of Al-Qa'ida and the its conflict with the west, which in itself was just another chapter in the bigger picture, the rise of Islamic extremism, it was not the start.

Your questions you have raised are really interesting ones, but they cannot be answered in any one post or thread, anyone who tries to do so doesn't know what they are talking about. The history of Islamic terrorism is vast and complex, it requires years of study and the questions you are asking are the right questions, its just that you wont find the answers on ATS or really on the internet.

the best way to gain the understanding you seek is to go seek out the history book's

reply to post by stopbeingnaive


You can die from a paper cut, if you do not treat it and even intentionally make it worst. Look into US external policy into the Middle East, Israel vs Palestine, the creation of the Al-Qaeda, the Why and How Iraq 1.0 occurred (and the history behind it, Hussein was at a time a CIA agent, it even involves Egypt history) and Afghanistan/Pakistan...

The subject is complex but if you think about it the "official" 9/11 story is not very complex at all, just well planned and well financed. If I myself if I had the intention to die doing the most damage possible, I would probably come up with better targets than a bus full of people in Tel Aviv.

Most of it is fiction so they can be whatever the authors wish them to be.

The next terrorist will be an Alien.

Perhaps a large percentage of them defected from their nations of origin into Anti-govt groups.

"Advanced" in comparison to their comrades.
They can specialize in all sorts of Counter-terrorist techniques,
which could be put to use against what they were once fighting for.

When did they get so advanced? Simple, when Obama decided to start arming them with our latest military technology.

reply to post by stopbeingnaive


I think your answer lay in the shifting definition of terrorist. Is Hamas a terrorist organization? Many say yes. They are also the heads of a small State. Is Hezbollah terrorist? Well, I even say yes on that one (Remember 1983. Never forget) yet that doesn't mean they are unsophisticated. They captured a ruling majority in the Lebanese Government just prior (weeks) to the Tunisia start of the 'Arab Spring' and so, control the resources of a proper Nation.

When you talk about a Unibomber type or a Tim McVeigh? They are unsophisticated. Very limited resources. When talking about the transnational terrorist organizations? They have everything at their disposal any other small nation in the world does. Scary huh?

reply to post by stopbeingnaive

So I ask what changed to make these people, who have been around for years, such an ominous threat?

They aren't. You have ben misled to believe they are by the Main Stream Media. The real threat to the world is not some bunch of Mujahideen Hillbillies, its the nations that use the perceived threat as an excuse to invade their countries and wage aggressive war.

I know exactly what you mean how did they get hold of USAF cargo planes on 9/11

reply to post by stopbeingnaive

Al-CIAeda is funded by billions in tax payer dollars.

Thats enough money to tweak/invent any technology they'd like.

And "they" will continue to be more of a "threat" as the nation starts to implode and or as citizens start to become restless.

reply to post by intrptr


Well, that's kind of my point. There has always been turmoil and strife in the Middle East. There has also been a lot of animosity towards the West as well, but we never had to really worry, not saying that I walk around everyday worried about a terrorist attack either, though. Now it's like we're led to believe that we've been overrun and there are threats everywhere. I also want clarify what I mean by advanced. I don't mean weaponry. I am well aware we've been supplying groups like Al Qaeda since the 80's. I mean when did they gain the ability to maneuver in such a way that we're supposed to be on high alert 24/7?

Originally posted by VoidHawk
Most of it is fiction so they can be whatever the authors wish them to be.

The next terrorist will be an Alien.

Fiction..

I wish I was safe and secure in this land where the people in this world who want to kill you are imaginary.

Prisons, fiction also. I've never met a murderer. And by making criminals out of thin air, they can make all sorts of laws. Like, then we're being controlled by fear.

True. I've never met a murderer...

reply to post by stopbeingnaive

I mean when did they gain the ability to maneuver in such a way that we're supposed to be on high alert 24/7?

Not sure your question because that also lends to the perceived threat fostered by the media.

There is a historical parallel in history. The Viet Cong's great secret during the Viet Nam war was the extensive tunnel system they employed to hide from the Americans. Massive bombing campaigns, search and destroy missions were all utilized to destroy the Viet Cong to no avail. They would pop up out of tunnels and fire a few rounds then seemingly disappear like ghosts.

Only after that "war" ended did it become apparent how complex and vast the tunnels were. I have been hearing about the "ghosts" in Afghanistan recently that fight and "disappear".

Humans are clever. Never underestimate your enemy.

this is a great question and one ive asked soldiers who have done tours in both afghanistant and iraq. One of the main questions i asked was about how the bad guys know how to assemble what appear to be fairly sophisticated roadside explosives which can be detonated with say a cell phone or something (i never heard of one using a pull string after all!) . I never could get a straight answer from anyone how so many of these guys knew how to make these things. I mean...granted...ive never done any research on how to make one...so forgive my naivete...

as a thought experiment....how can one detonate a simple explosive with a cellphone? a cellphone is a radio....so the explosive would have to have a 'reciever' that is tuned or programmed to detonate either at 'answering' the cellphone (which begs the question does that mean the onboard electronics are programmed to act like a cellphone and also how is the cellphone 'calling' the explosive in remote areas where cellphone coverage may be spotty).....also....if the IED is responding to the frequency of the cellphone (which is in the microwave band of radiation) how is the IED not detonaed by other sources of microwave radiation prematurely?

anyway this was only one example of my questioning that never recieved an intelligent or detailed response....it was always just 'oh theyre very well trained these guys'. Ok...trained by WHOM? Are you telling me that every one of these devices is made by a former republican guard that was trained in demolition and has just been gallavanting around the countryside teaching everyone how to make them? That doesnt even approach the issue of supplies......can these things just be made with some string, duct tape and a few wires?

Anyway, im sure you can imagine as i do that the issue is far more complex than we are led to believe by the dinosaur media........yeah yeah roadside bomb...some guys died...how sad........i dont think even 1 percent of the people who hear these stories every thinks for one minute how these things are made, where they get the supplies...whos training them....etc.....

so....the story appears to unravel a bit.......

i like what Carlin said '...i have this funny thing i do its called thinking........and i dont believe anything my government tells me.......'

reply to post by intrptr


I think it's safe to say that before 9/11 no one really had an idea who Al Qaeda was. Terrorism was not a word used as frequently as it is today. Before 9/11, I can only recall one foreign terrorist attack WTC '93. Nothing really came of it. We didn't have threat level orange, yellow, and red. We then go eight years without any incidents involving the main land, and then it's like we're led to believe an attack is imminent everyday. Why are people taking this terrorism threat so serious now? On 9/10 there was nothing to worry about, but a day later we have everything to worry about? How is everyone falling for this hook, line, and sinker? Yes, 9/11 was a catastrophic event. Did anything really change? We've had planes hijacked before. We've had terrorist attacks before. None of this is new so why are we being told now that we're under such a threat? Why I'm I supposed to believe that there is a threat? What actually changed that would make me believe what the government and media says about there being such a threat of terrorism that would affect our lives?

reply to post by instigatah


You need to understand more about explosives, there are many types of requirements for detonators depending on the explosive.

The explosion can be triggered by the simple ring function (even better if the phone can be programmed only to ring to a specific number) or altered to answer and accept a DTMF tone (or combinations/variations). The most basic would only require a simple mobile phone and using the audio or vibration circuit for the detonation.

"Terrorists" are like organized criminals it depends on the size. Consider the Basque ETA in Spain, they are financed by extorting taxes (much like the government or a criminal extortion scheme), kidnap and rob quarries or mines for the explosives. They can even assault government resources or personal for equipment, like the resistance in East Timor against Indonesia (most of the equipment was acquired by ambush and raids on governmental forces). Any more complex organization would require backing from outside this could be emigrants or expatriates or other governments, look on how the various ex-Yugoslavian got armament. Another way is simply to take over criminal activities like FARC (Coke) or the Taliban/Northern Alliance (Opium).

Did you know that at a point the IRA was training the South American cartels in exchange for supplies ?

In any case terrorist organization alone can't never supplant local governments, they exist in the vacuum (one that they may themselves create) but can never outgrow alone the hosting state unless they get support from outside. If alone a force is capable of matching the state we get a civil war, to my knowledge and recollection no civil war was ever fought without outside interference not even the American Civil war and few have been started on on pure internal initiative.

reply to post by stopbeingnaive

I think it's safe to say that before 9/11 no one really had an idea who Al Qaeda was.

Renamimg an old friend into a foe. Usama Bin Laden helped the CIA thwart the Russians in Afghanistan. Back then the fighters in Afghanistan were called Mujahideen. Now they are called Al Queda. You might have heard them called "Al - CIA - da" by some.

Terrorism was not a word used as frequently as it is today.

Yes it was. I know you say you were young when 911 happened so you may never have heard of the term going back before then. Google the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) and Yasser Arafat. There were numerous airliner hijacks and other terrorist organizations. Munich Olympics is another. Terrorist is an old term used in various ways in different times throughout history. The idea behind a lot of Empires was to subjugate the masses thru terrifying acts of Barbarism. What you see today is another cloak on an age old tactic.

Why are people taking this terrorism threat so serious now?

The longer the endless wars in the Middle East go on the more people become angry over there at US.The more countries we ravage the more enemies we leave in our wake, the higher the overall threat level. We reap what we sow.

On 9/10 there was nothing to worry about, but a day later we have everything to worry about? How is everyone falling for this hook, line, and sinker? Yes, 9/11 was a catastrophic event. Did anything really change? We've had planes hijacked before. We've had terrorist attacks before. None of this is new so why are we being told now that we're under such a threat? Why I'm I supposed to believe that there is a threat? What actually changed that would make me believe what the government and media says about there being such a threat of terrorism that would affect our lives?

That remains to be seen. Our government wants to conquer and subjugate whole other countries thousands of mile from home. The risk of some kind of blowback from all that is grave to the American people. Not according to those in charge of the military, though. They would say its all under control. But our government wants us to fear them anyway so we go along with the program.

I'm sorry, I am not more on top of this for you, all those questions you ask are real good for someone who cares about world events and whats really going on. There is a lot of misinformation out there, you are best served by reading some history about previous conflicts where there are similarities. We tend to repeat the past.

Another good US failure was the Viet Nam conflict. I grew up watching that on the 6 O' Clock news and the similarities are there if you look. Same with the beginning off WWII when Adolf Hitler led Nazi Germany to war against the world. In the beginning he conquered country after country in Europe all in the name of peace.

In the end Germany was in ruins. You are correct not to get to worried about the "terror" threat. The threat is really us. Just hope the world doesn't form an ally base to take US down.

If I mentioned something you want to know more about you can ask and I will try and answer tomorrow. Sorry about not being more clear.

Most of their "high-tech", ie. cell phone detonated IEDs aren't that difficult to construct if you have a working knowledge of electronics and explosives. The electronic side of things are easily figured out, even without the internet... The explosives are a bit trickier, but if you have CIA operatives training you (Afghanistan during Soviet occupation)... you get the idea...

Interesting questions..............
The IEDs the "terrorists" construct are basically very simple devices....
The addition of a simple cell phone detonation device is also basic.(you could do it with a pair of walkie talkies too.....)
Penetrating ordinance, is a matter of a copper penetrator plate added to the mix....(deliberately obscure here...goggle is yer friend)
The so called terrorists, are actually pretty pathetic in the accomplishments department, considering the choice of targets is always an emotional one, and not really that practical tactically, or strateigically.
Targets are chosen for maximum casualties rather than maximum damage to the enemy war fighting abilities.
The targets are nearly all high (for their abilities) profile for political and emotional effects.
IEDS are only so effective......they slow the enemy down , and distract from the ability to counter Guerrilla activity....
But they will never "win" a war.
Terror activity is actually the psywar of the terrorists.
Real war fighting is beyond their ability to bring down on a well equipped and determined force.
as a rule....
The much vaunted capabilities of the "terror threat"
are actually a well planned publicity stunt helped along by a government determined to construct a police state in
America.
Much of whats going on is strictly theater....believe me , a determined force of terrorists could and should have by now, wreaked havoc in North America.
The fact that they haven't is due to the fact they are for the most part a construct of our own governments ambitions for domination.
Please inderstand it was the FBI who supplied the Shaik with the very first bomb at the WTC back in 93,
The terrorists were helped all the way by FBI" plants.."
The bomb maker offered to build a non explosive device but the FBI handle told him to make it a real bomb......
Much controversy still exists as to who was with T McViegh in the rider truck only moments before he parked it in Oklahoma. City.
There are those who think this was an FBI handler........believe no ones version.....dig deeper....youll find some very contrary info out there.....

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by stopbeingnaive

 

I mean when did they gain the ability to maneuver in such a way that we're supposed to be on high alert 24/7?

Not sure your question because that also lends to the perceived threat fostered by the media.

There is a historical parallel in history. The Viet Cong's great secret during the Viet Nam war was the extensive tunnel system they employed to hide from the Americans. Massive bombing campaigns, search and destroy missions were all utilized to destroy the Viet Cong to no avail. They would pop up out of tunnels and fire a few rounds then seemingly disappear like ghosts.

Only after that "war" ended did it become apparent how complex and vast the tunnels were. I have been hearing about the "ghosts" in Afghanistan recently that fight and "disappear".

Humans are clever. Never underestimate your enemy.

That being said the Afghans could never mount anything like what the Vietnamese did for a number of reasons.