Healing the African American People

^ Not much to add after this post, but still..

You white guilt folks don't realize that you're causing nothing but trouble. You're creating antagonizm in anyone who is neutral, while not getting much appreciation from the people you 'defend'.

reply to post by cenpuppie


The Op's heart is in the right place, but you nailed it.

Harmony is great and something we should strive for but it indicates that disharmony is the problem. The problem is much uglier and much deeper. It is indeed economic warfare, and has been waged against blacks disproportionately (the disenfranchised and marginalized are always exploited the harshest) since the end of slavery, mainly unnoticed. Only now as the war expands to include middle class America are people starting to wake up. Will enough people wake up though or will people continue to walk through their lives only able to see what is done to them and how they personally are suffering and never understanding that allowing injury to one is allowing injury to all.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by ItDepends

 

yes i know love is for everyone. here's an analogy

you have a hospital. you're the doctor. you walk into the room where the patients are all lined up in beds and ask your nurse who is the most injured, so you can start treatment based on severity of injury.

this is how i view race relations in the usa. we start with the most injured. it doesn't negate other injuries. it doesn't even negate the person who only thinks they are injured. everyone in the hospital is there because they are either 1) injured, 2) not injured but think they are.

Right.

But let me show you something...in said hospital, are you treating the actual victims, or the great-great-great- grandchildren of the victims?

The most injured among blacks, aside from the actual slaves themselves, would be the 1st, and maybe 2nd generation of freed blacks...

Not ANYONE in 2013

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Cancerwarrior

 

gonna answer you anyway. this is the issue. if all they ever hear from their leaders is that white people (who some of them categorize as latino and native americans as well) hate them, how else are we gonna get the message out that that's not true? i've been robbed and nearly raped by 2 black guys at gun point in a black neighborhood and saved by another black guy who was like an angel. he's one of my all time heroes, right up there with my awesome mom, sister and of course, jesus christ.

anyway, i know it sounds frivolous but it isn't.

Hmmm...the 'black leaders' and most liberals for that matter, need to stop promoting the racial hatred that isn't there.

Originally posted by cenpuppie
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

There is more to it than simply the 'Southern Strategy' sweetie. There are alot of other forces out there at play but it all boils down to economics.

When you have the power to employ yourself you don't need the government to assist you. But then again, corporations, including Republicans have their hands and mouths open for that government assistance. There is no problem with it, if it's needed.

Both sides of the political party are playing black people, not just Democrats, Republicans too. Take a look at some of the ridiculous new laws the Republicans want to pass in North Carolina when it comes to voting and I'm not talking about just the voter id (every American should have some form of identification anyway).

Look, there is more to this problem than just "Shut up and get a job". The plight of black people now, in this country is no different other groups of people in other nations that are stricken with poverty. You think it's bad here, try being poor and black in Brazil, that's the realness.

It's money. That allows you to climb that social economic ladder. That's why the poorest are the quickest to show case their wealth. Because visibly, i'm not "poor". See my Bugatti? Don't take my word for it, read some of the essays by W.E.B Du Bios and Fredrick Douglas and you will realize that the problems they had then are the same ones facing us now. Not that much has changed except that black people no longer support themselves economically now like they did way back when.

edit on 26-7-2013 by cenpuppie because: (no reason given)

Give me an example of a 'voting law' in North Carolina that is "racist" against blacks. You can't.

And your logic is very flawed in this post. On one hand you are saying that is "It's Money"- then you say '"oney allows you to climb the social ladder".

You failed to make the connection in how one acquires the money. People do not magically wish for it. They have to be educated (at least somewhat) and work for it, unless they are born into royalty. These are things, in which you have agreed with here or in other threads, that he black community is no longer highly supporting.

Hard work in education have been replaced by a fascination and glorification in things like:

how much bling and money they have
how many ---- they can sleep with
how many n----s they can kill
the quality of drugs they can sell

No one,color or party line is forcing them to do so. However, it is the Democratic that rewards the entitlement mentality and victimhood which has blacks in the social position that we are in.

You say that Republicans are to blame???(more liberal 'blame game').

Blacks tend to vote Republican less than 3% in national and local elections; therefore, they have not achieved any representation in that party. If you understand politics, you would know that block-voting in a party creates a number of delgates who then takes the issues of that group to the RNC or DNC and adds policies to help that group to their party platform.

As long as blacks do not vote Republican, they can never blame the Republican Party for their social issues.

reply to post by ButterCookie

Give me an example of a 'voting law' in North Carolina that is "racist" against blacks. You can't.

I wouldn't say racist as much as disenfranchise. And i never said racist. I like to have solid proof when tossing that accusation around. When the Supreme Court got rid of a certain law, the Republicans immediately started pushing through changes. And what go me most incensed is that they are going to remove early registration. Cenk on TYT breaks it down.



[Disclaimer: Ignore his claims of racism. Just listen to the changes they want to make and i'm not talking asking for an ID]

State lawmakers in the current legislative session are expected to pass bills that would stop same-day voter registration, reduce the early-voting period, end balloting on the Sunday before Election Day

That's what they are doing. In a democracy that values the vote then when are they going so far to slow down anyone that wishes to vote?

It's money. That allows you to climb that social economic ladder.

Is not "'only allows you to climb the social ladder". What did I say? I said it allows you to climb that social economic ladder.

you failed to make the connection in how one acquires the money. People do not magically wish for it. They have to be educated (at least somewhat) and work for it, unless they are born into royalty.

What connection? You can make money a variety of ways, legal or illegal if that is your goal. Master P didn't have an advanced education. It's opportunity.

how much bling and money they have
how many ---- they can sleep with
how many n----s they can kill
the quality of drugs they can sell

I agree! But we can't let the actions of the few define the whole. I have yet to see anyone bother with the black middle class and their views on what's going on. All we hear and read are the emphasis on those poor blacks, whose situation is no different than other cultures living in poverty. Do those cultures emphasize what you mention? I don't know you'd have to look at each one individually.

You say that Republicans are to blame???(more liberal 'blame game').

I never said that, your letting your political bias cloud your judgement. I said Republicans are playing black folks. I have no idea how you got "being racist" from "playing". You jumped to that conclusion not me.

As long as blacks do not vote Republican, they can never blame the Republican Party for their social issues.

That's a quote i'm going to have to leave alone

reply to post by ButterCookie


it's not a straight shot from slavery to today. it's a long battle that only truly ended just over a generation ago. so i don't think it can be categorically shrugged off as not part of the situation. it is part of the situation, generationally. some are lucky and have parents who, even if life has hurt them badly, still do everything in their power, legally, to assure their children have a better future. some are not so lucky. add to that, neighborhood and social issues, financial concerns that the whole planet has been undergoing for at least 70 years, which effects the poor before it does anyone else, and you have yourself a recipe for massive poverty.

it doesn't help that our government has tried to solve the problem by throwing money at it in such small quantities that the poor still end up struggling. during clinton's administration the enlisted military members hadn't had a cost of living raise in quite some time and actually qualified for welfare, food stamps and the wick program, they were so underpaid compared to comparable employees in the civilian sector at the time. imagine how hard it must be for those who's sole source of income is welfare.

i completely understand the racism issue. this topic isn't about racism, inevitably. it's about people finding a place in their hearts for each other.

reply to post by ButterCookie


I can't take you seriously because in every one of your posts I sense a very deep hatred for black people as well as on obsessive desire to distance yourself from those "savages". I don't know what you have experienced in your life that makes you feel this way but you seem to just put yourself out there as a contrarian and antagonist to everything in the black community like you have some sort of agenda.

Also, in most of your posts you always bring up how much you hate liberals, how they are all idiots and causing the downfall of society, using blatant stereotypes and misrepresentations to denigrate liberals.

You also do the same thing with democrats for some reason. It makes little sense.

I just sense a lot of hatred.

Originally posted by djr33222
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

I can't take you seriously because in every one of your posts I sense a very deep hatred for black people as well as on obsessive desire to distance yourself from those "savages". I don't know what you have experienced in your life that makes you feel this way but you seem to just put yourself out there as a contrarian and antagonist to everything in the black community like you have some sort of agenda.

Also, in most of your posts you always bring up how much you hate liberals, how they are all idiots and causing the downfall of society, using blatant stereotypes and misrepresentations to denigrate liberals.

You also do the same thing with democrats for some reason. It makes little sense.

I just sense a lot of hatred.

You should take me quite seriously.

I talk about hatred of the FACt that the black race is on the decline. Am I to be proud of that?

The liberal mentality that one should never call blacks out on their own demise as 'racist' or 'self-hating' is true racism....

its the blind liberal racism that liberals can't see.

reply to post by cenpuppie


You seem very confused and have somehow taken the liberal mindset as to why blacks have the problems that we do

Anyways, can you explain how Republicans are, as you say, "playing blacks"?

reply to post by ButterCookie


Liberals just don't see things the same way you do. Maybe a liberal has a more positive and uplifting perspective about the black community. Perhaps they are more concerned with uplifting all communities instead of assigning blame. Liberals can surely follow the dictum of their own conscience, to have their own opinions without disparaging comments being made about them from the other side.

I realize that when you watch Bill Maher on HBO talk crap about, and pigeonhole, republicans/conservatives like it was his job you probably get upset. That doesn't mean you have to lash out against the other side whenever you get the chance.

In this thread the OP, Undo, has been talking about race relations being a forced issue used to divide the country. As much as I've been arguing about race in reference to the Zimmerman case I definitely agree with her assessment. I can admit I sometimes buy into the fallacy and perpetuate this divide. Can you admit that your negativity aimed at liberals, democrats, black leaders, and other members of the black community is contributing to the problem?

Originally posted by djr33222
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

Liberals just don't see things the same way you do. Maybe a liberal has a more positive and uplifting perspective about the black community. Perhaps they are more concerned with uplifting all communities instead of assigning blame. Liberals can surely follow the dictum of their own conscience, to have their own opinions without disparaging comments being made about them from the other side.

I realize that when you watch Bill Maher on HBO talk crap about, and pigeonhole, republicans/conservatives like it was his job you probably get upset. That doesn't mean you have to lash out against the other side whenever you get the chance.

In this thread the OP, Undo, has been talking about race relations being a forced issue used to divide the country. As much as I've been arguing about race in reference to the Zimmerman case I definitely agree with her assessment. I can admit I sometimes buy into the fallacy and perpetuate this divide. Can you admit that your negativity aimed at liberals, democrats, black leaders, and other members of the black community is contributing to the problem?

edit on 28-7-2013 by djr33222 because: (no reason given)

How is having the belief that you are responsible for your outcome 'negative'?

This is what is truly amusing about liberals; their power is in having one to believe that their conditions are the fault of someone else, thus enabling them to pull themselves out of it.

Just like the antics of the Democratic Party 200 years ago- oppression and enslavement to big government

buttercookie

i agree that discouraging people from rising above their circumstances, has lead to many just assuming the worst about their own abilities, but i would also add, that with the benefits of enough money and support from their social environment (which they currently don't have), the poor find themselves in a much better position from which to heal and actually come to the understanding that they can succeed.

giving people barely enough to eat much less thrive, societal pressure to not succeed because succeeding is "part of the white man's world" and instead taking up forms of money accumulation which are considered illegal, they are inherently set up to fail and end in prison.

suggesting this is entirely the fault of the poor, is just not acceptable.

Usually the President of the United States is regarded as the most powerful person in the world.

An African American currently holds that position. So some will say the the most powerful man in the world is an African American.

What about the most powerful woman in the world, I would say that it is Oprah, who happens to be an African American, I would say she has more power than the Queen of England

Who would you say the most famous person in history is? My vote would be for Michael Jackson, did you know he was an African American ?

reply to post by Rockpuck


I find it troubling how this post has so many stars and yet, reeks of prejudice against African Americans.

Allow me to explain.

So, you enslave an entire race of people to do your dirty work on plantations, etc. You keep them in bondage. You denigrate them. You treat them like sub-humans. You repress them.

Then, you turn around and say, "well, that's not fair. We should let these people be free. We should let them vote and enjoy the American dream".

All's good and well, right?

Well, not quite.

Thanks to decades of poverty after being "freed", said folks are denied credit, denied the ability to achieve the American dream and denied the ability to rise above. Those who do succeed, have to practically claw their way out of this abyss. Said folks turn to crime to survive. The jails fill up. The hopes and dreams of their youth? Crushed underfoot by the resentment of caucasians.

And what about voting? What happens when these folks are denied the ability to vote at the polls without intimidation? Where's their representation?

You see, decades of this vicious cycle harbored resentment. Who kept this vicious cycle going? Why, of course it was the very same caucasians who at one point, wanted to "free" these people. Sure, there were folks that felt powerless, trapped in this same cycle, who were unable to join their peers who had broken through.

Racism in the United States of America is not dead. It never went away. It never will.

As long as White America blames African Americans themselves for the position they are in, the vicious cycle will continue. The jails will continue to overflow. Poverty and crime will continue to flourish.

Those who rose above, will continue to put down their peers in a manner similar to what you have just done.

And this isn't just addressed to you. It's also addressed to the author of this thread, who, much like myself (for the record, I am a Native American), doesn't have the right to patronize others and demand that they comply.

If you wish to break the cycle of ignorance, poverty and crime, you must accept the following fact:

RACISM IN AMERICA IS ALIVE AND WELL AND IT NEVER WENT AWAY

It was swept and continues to be swept under the rug by White America.

This is a sad and unfortunate fact of our reality.

If you want to help others, you must stop blaming them. You must stop patronizing them. Stop demonizing them. Stop denigrating them. Stop denying them.

After all, this is America, the land of the free and the home of the brave. The land of opportunity. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddle masses...

We in the present day cannot make up for the horrific things that our ancestors did to each other. But, we can rise above. We can learn. We can educate. We can lift each other out of the doldrums. We can achieve. We are America. We are Americans.

I implore of those who are still living in denial, to recognize that racism will never go away. Until you address it, it will continue to be the elephant in the room. And, people will continue to suffer.

It's time to break that cycle.

I participate in these types of debates on and offline, wherever i find them. I don't feel compelled to do it because i'm black, i feel compelled to do it just as much as i feel compelled to input my cents into debates where a great portion of the participants are intentionally or unintentionally aware of key factors and elements that would change the outlook and opinions of people who have a strong, unwavering stance on the subject.

I'll get the given's out the way. Yes Black people are most likely to jump, rob or shoot your ass as well as each other. Plenty of us are ignorant. We have our pants under our but cheeks. We can't manage ourselves. We blame others for our own mess ups using antiquated arguments. We love rap and it's whole retarded, shallow culture. All in all a large portion of our people act like complete bufoons. There ya go.

Now think to yourselves, were we born like that? My dad and i always debate(argue) this, and i remember one time when i was a teen that he suggested that it was in our genes to be violent and shallow. Great, hooray for darwiniasm We sold ourselves to the Europeans when they landed on the shores of the continent; our self destruction was underway before the involvement of ant whites.

To those who throw this argument around, slavery was a world wide SPOILS OF WAR condition practiced by most to all civilizations and tribes. Celtic tribes, Germanic tribes, Inca/Aztec/Mayan empires, African tribes/Empires, Roman's, Briton tribes, North American tribes, any civilization with an army, with another one in striking distance. You lost the battle? Either eat a spear/sword/hammer/hatchet/mace/axe/flail/halberd to the face, or be our bi***. Those magick boomguns and shiny thingamajigs look awesome! Screw these guys...have 'em. And the captives sold are only a small portion of the amount of people TOOK after these Europeans saw how trusting and business minded the tribes were, and how and oh yeah, bow&arrow/wooden melee weapons

reply to post by bigman88


i'm a white chicky of totally european descent (pale is an understatement for how white i am), but i know common sense when i see it, and i know compassion when i receive it, and i know how healing love can be. it literally heals everything. so i just want to say for the record, i love you, bigman88 and agree that the situation is untenable, not just for you, but for most americans (and likely, most of the planet). unfortunately, what you are witnessing is the socializing of the entire globe. whether it is fascist socialism or communist socialism, depends on who you ask, but since the both seem to work towards the same goal of socializing everything, it's probably safe to say, global socialism. this, also unfortunately, means that people will no longer be able to succeed, only exist. and the ones that exist, are lucky, as many are just outright slaughtered in socialistic governments.

sigh. voting ourselves into oblivion.

Oh yeah, lets make sure to give gradually increasing attention and public exposure to shallow, materialistic, thoughtless rap culture, complete with guns, drugs, hos, cars, and lets make sure to slowly eclipse skilled, thought provoking, social and politically oriented music. We must appeal to their basest morals and instincts by constantly perforating them with being poor and ghetto, but still being able to hustle shoot their way to wealth as a badge of esteem and honor. Make sure these idiots get a multi-million record deal, and these uppity, smart mouthed ones over their who might get people thinking get no exposure. Any one who says that sex, drugs and money sells, and that's what everyone likes, true. But you think a population just ups and unanimously stops liking something because of whatever? Nope, they keep producing, we keep lapping it up. Peace, harmony, thought and community could make them execs BIG money, just like it did in back in hip hops's earlier ventures. But they slowly phased that out. You can sell wet poo on a keychain with a million bucks and a bunch of celebs behind it. That's marketing. It's what they want to sell to us, and what they want us to absorb. At sometime in popular media and society, through effective mass hypnosis, to be BLACK was synonymous with baggy pants below the butt, expensive sneakers, fitted's worn sideways, jewelry, giant rims, hoodies, ebonics talk, etc... If a non- black person dressed and acted this way, they are acting BLACK all of a sudden. Black people who dress high class, lack the ghetto tinge or have an extensive lexicon in their speech, and hold high position jobs are acting WHITE. Imagine how many smart black people from the hood who didn't base so much of how swagged they looked or how much bread they got, but on their even, intelligent, thoughtful and sober words, actions and persona (and non flashy clothing). But they don't get nearly as much, if any, screen time, do they? Nope, so the braggadocio idiots are the most visible, the most marketed by US. media agencies that are run by US gov, so the population, especially the young, emulate these people.

This culture now defines the Very essence of what it is to be black. It even gets so bad that we have black kids with ample opportunity still engaging in crime and buffoonery because this culture has permeated the very minds of blacks in this country. They land there buts in jail, or mess up in some other way, and they say its the white man and the government, thus devaluing any black peoples arguments who are able to say it REALLY IS with intelligence, proof and efficacy.

So pops is too busy out on the street doing criminal stuff with the help of poverty and the drugs trafficked into the hood, while moms is alone working 2-4 very low paying jobs that generates no revenue back into the black community, and she still cant even catch up to them bills. Shes at work during that day, where the kids are busy spending 70% of their time with other kids who already picked up on the guns, drugs and violence. No matter how much momma tries to instill good morals and values in them kids, work takes up too much, and the kids spend most of the time out on the street's, learning the streets, absorbing the streets, picking up the wrong things, thus propagating a next generation of criminals and. Influenced by skillfully marketed rap music, fueled by the desire for quick money, respect, or just the pure thrill of the gun, they are the crime rate.

Those that do not succumb to crime, succumb to mediocrity instead; they either become strung out on the drugs pushed by the criminals that are trafficked by Uncle Sam, or they trudge through life and get a regular, very low paying job. An environment of excellence, achievement, imagination and motivation was not fostered in these areas because of the intentional neglect of education and programs within these areas. So instead, it's just get a job/learn a trade, make money, look out for yourself.

Anybody see this cycle, here? Or do you think it's it's just the innate actions of black people? That it might be in our genes, as my pops offered as one possibility?

Try your best and withhold your ideas and views for the duration of this evaluation, and CRITICALLY deconstruct this; what can be the cause here? CIA drug trafficking is REAL that is a fact. The FBI program COINTELPRO was REAL, that is a fact. FBI documents detailing how to demoralize and destroy the black community is REAL that is a fact, research all of this, if you REALLY WANT TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS. Then make your carefully considered judgement.

Whose to say that they were not successful? Oprah Winfrey? Micheal Jackson, Barack Obama? Really? You think some talk show host pushing new age babble and discussing celebrity drama is an example? You think a singer and ENTERTAINER is an example? You think a president who had his second term rigged to victory, who is cutting our rights and freedoms, an example? How many of us are lawyers, doctors, lawmakers, astronaut, etc? Not many, but we sure do know how to entertain, don't we? SEESH, flex those brains, people...

reply to post by VaterOrlaag


agreed. but for that to happen, we have to stop the cycle we're all heading in,
enmasse, atm.

reply to post by bigman88


I disagree completely-

Say there is some mass conspiracy within the 'government' to plant drugs into black communities, and there was a huge abortion conspiracy to kill off the black race...

No one is forcing blacks to use or sell drugs.

No one is forcing black women to abort their babies.

So how does a 'big conspiracy' contribute to your argument as to explain away the problems in the black community?