Daring to be Different in the Black Community

The OP is a shinning example of what we all should follow. It's easy to get caught up in to a belief and ideology, especially when surrounded with family and friends in a community, all with similar belief, but for her to stand back and think for herself, it takes a lot to do that and even more to stand up and say "Actually, I don't believe what you all believe and here is why..."

There isn't enough stars for that strength.

If we all did that, all stepped back and objectively looked at situations, opinions, beliefs that surround us and even bombard us, that to me is progression, because its a level of independent thought that we really haven't got to yet and that the government, media (which is controlled by government) and the rest of the elite with vested interests in keeping us divided, mute and pretty much brain dead fear the most.

I truly believe that through independent objective thought, to see and understand without emotion clouding our judgement, that would bring about greater unity than any policy or brain dead scheme the liberals, conservatives or anything inbetween could ever create. Remember, division is what they ALL want and need in order for the status quo to be maintained.

reply to post by Willtell

Reading this op, I knew it would be praised (this is a good black person according to some) but it is a delusional view! Don’t you see that’s the problem!

I think you’ve touched on something here. This is the root of the “Uncle Tom” charges, right? That term is thrown out there when black people feel that a black person is trying to appeal to white people. My question is, what did the OP do that was offensive to black people? Going to school to get a better job? Supporting Zimmerman based on evidence? How are these white positions or an appeal to whites?

This op is a myopic view because the objective reality is that black people in the west--descendants of slaves-- are indeed still affected negatively to a degree from the pernicious effects of slavery, and the years of Jim Crow racism that had them drinking out of separate water fountains and ridding on the backs of buses, massive lynching in the south and blatant job and housing discrimination. This all still happens now to a great degree, and up in this modern era after slavery.

This is an objective fact, not stated here as any kind of excuse for bad behavior.

So you don’t think self-segregation and walking around with a chip on your shoulder (not you but the people you’re describing in the west) isn’t the cause of this perceived racism they are supposedly experiencing?

I fell this way as a black person who has had white friends and never even are concerned with race but that doesn’t mean I forget objective reality and delude myself that white supremacy and racism isn’t endemic in this culture.

To think otherwise is delusion!

Please share some examples that shows how “white supremacy” reigns in today’s culture.

I appreciate your post because I think you’ve really opened the discussion. Yours was one of the best posts in the thread IMO and deserves to be explored.

Originally posted by asher
reply to post by seabag

 

Nah. I'm not racist but white people are annoying when it comes to discussing race. White Americans lynched raped and killed black people because of there skin color but they think that racism is worse now? White Americans have never truly experienced racism. They have never lived their lives in fear because of their skin color. And white people are some of the most racist people in the world. Now after 400 years of blacks as slaves they want to play the victim and say "we are all one"

Right. What Seabag and I were saying to that was that it has nothing to do with anyone alive today because, as you stated, this occured between 200 and 400 years ago.

If it had a direct effect on blacks, we would be able to see it in the generations right after the Emancipation. Instead, we see the total opposite:

Families were tight knit, mainly mother and father in the home
Blacks valued education and strongly desired higher learning
We absilutely did not refer to ourselves with the 'N' word.

reply to post by luciddream


What do you mean when you say that the OP has abandoned her culture?

reply to post by AllIsOne

Here is a thought for you, though. Picture a male slave working in the fields. Time and time again he observes the slave owner picking a light-skinned female slave for sex. Sometimes she is then allowed to live in the house. Picture this happening to the slave's woman, and there is absolutely nothing he can do about it. I believe that this type of emasculation has caused major damage to the psyche of the black community.

Did you know white slavery was more prevalent then black slavery, did you know blacks owned slaves, Native Americans also owned slaves.

King James II and Charles I also led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain’s famed Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbor.

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

www.globalresearch.ca...

Originally posted by asher

Nah. I'm not racist but white people are annoying when it comes to discussing race.

looks racist to me... if it's "annoying" it's because some people use guilt as a weapon, or accusations of racism as a weapon.

White Americans lynched raped and killed black people because of there skin color but they think that racism is worse now?

who says racism is worse now? i don't think anyone does. on the other hand people are concerned over what they view as institutionalized racism, which seems to be a problem still. though it is getting better.
you aren't helping by blaming white people for something they didn't do, if you think they are annoying look at what you are doing. being told that since your ancestors did terrible things, that you who have never hurt anyone deserve punishment or hate for your very existence. yeah when culture tells you how horrible you are if you don't walk on eggshells every second, well i guess that can get annoying.

White Americans have never truly experienced racism.

yes they have, just not as much as other groups and no one cares about white racism, it's why it's called "reverse racism" because people don't believe it is regular old racism, when it really is.

They have never lived their lives in fear because of their skin color.

tell that to people during the riots in 1992, i bet they were deathly afraid of someone stabbing them for being white.

And white people are some of the most racist people in the world.

yeah.. so the people that promoted the 1964 voting act, who helped free the slaves? yeah what you said is completely stupid and you should be ashamed of yourself.
white people are no more racist than any other group, in fact i would say that they might be less so since some groups tell themselves they can't be racist and spew racist BS while pretending they are exempt. white people try hard to keep from being racist, try hard not to generalize.
if white people were so racist as you say, they wouldn't care if they offend others, they wouldn't be the most offended by the use of the "n-word".

Now after 400 years of blacks as slaves they want to play the victim and say "we are all one"

wow what a story you have invented, what color is the sky in your world?
white people if we must generalize like that, want to move past it because you can't keep hating people who had nothing to do with the event.
no one today has ever owned a slave, has never beat a black man out in the cotton fields, so why despise them for something they didn't do?
looking for ways to appeal to our commonality is the only way to move forward, to better your community and if you have to divide yourself into another group, your own group.

any group that holds on to grudges, no matter who, will never better themselves, and lets face it, black people are suffering for it.
there is racism still, some of it from the very people who get harmed the most from it, black people.
thing is, nothing changes if you can't compromise and there are people who don't want compromise, so they lie to the less knowledgeable.

as it always turns out, the PTB are to blame for this, the people who take on the role of leader is to blame, not the group as a whole, they are just reacting in ways they are expected to.

Thank you for letting the world know that blacks can be as racist as whites. White people aren't allowed to say that. That's racist

Fortunately, I grew up in an area of Oklahoma where racism isn't an issue. I grew up around powerful and respected blacks. I'm still in the same area. The town I live in has many interracial relationships and friendships.

There's camaraderie and laughter between all people here. Strangers become instant friends. Gays are free to be gay. I'd invite all you free thinkers to come stay, but the oil boom has made it impossible to find a place.

reply to post by Deetermined


Haha yes it is. Honestly whenever I deal with you foolish mortals I'm just trolling. I have no stake in this world. I just like debating. I got over my issues with race long ago. And when I'm tired of arguing I start posting outlandish. I get bored while I'm in class ~(•_•)~ - kanye shrug

reply to post by asher


Well done, God.

However, you claimed and stated that whites never experienced poverty...Which is still a false comment, you could've said many whites, the majority of whites, all but one white guy named Billy Joe, but you said whites, definitively. Did you not say that, God?

Checkmate...In fact I've just thrown the board up in the air and ran out of your study throwing paint up the walls. The greatest trick I ever pulled was convincing the world that I do tricks.

Originally posted by asher
reply to post by SecretFace

 

Originally posted by SecretFace
That doesn't make sense!

You claimed that whites in America never experienced poverty, which is totally false, what on Earth did I say to prompt such a response? I think you have real issues that you need to address yourself, rather than pointing fingers at others.

Originally posted by asher
(mostly because they where the ones who were subjecting people to poverty and discrimination due to their skin color)

"DUE TO THEIR SKIN COLOR!!!!" WHUHUH!!!
Let all of you mortals witness my amazing power.

Secretface your first wrong move was thinking you out smarted me and my vast godlike intellect. I have walked across the surface of the Sun. I have witnessed events so tiny and so fast they can hardly be said to have occurred at all. But you, Secreteface, you're just a man. The world's smartest man poses no more threat to me than does its smartest termite.

I AM A GOD. EVEN THOUGH IM A MAN OF GOD. MY WHOLE LIFE IN THE HANDS OF GOD. SO Y'ALL BETTER QUIT PLAYIN WITH GOD!!!

edit on 15-7-2013 by asher because: #Quoting yeezy on your candyass #kill yo self

edit on 15-7-2013 by asher because: I'm out

LMFAO.... youre not so great as to not need a spellchecker. Plus only a fool would claim to be a god.
Newsflash, youre just a human being like the rest of us. Isnt god supposed to be fair,just, all knowing and all forgiving? Whats to fear?

i wasnt aware that not enunciating, attending school, not dressing in hip hop clothes meant you are abandoning what it means to be black.
how shameful that black people could be afraid to not play a character of the stereotype.
its like classic peer pressure or something. like dont let your fellow black friends see you reading a book or anything.

Great post OP...

...I'm sad to hear about the things your dad has said to you, and others, but that has to be heartbreaking.

I'm white, and I know in many ways I enjoy presumptions about my day to day life, that are not afforded to blacks, and to some extent hispanics, asian folks, etc...

When I moved to Kansas City in the 90's from Chicago... I started having my first experiences of racism. Race relations in KC have a very troubled history. It was awful... and at times, frightening.

The entirety of American culture, white and black, has been trained how to think, and made to believe that they have to conform to the "herd". I don't know why it is some of us "pop out of the herd" and others don't.

Over the last 8 years, I have learned, at depth, just about everything there is one can know in that time about marketing and advertising, mostly related to e-commerce, and small/medium sized local businesses. (If you would have told me 9 years ago I would be doing so I would have been offended :-) )

...it's changed the way I look at everything, from a political and media perspective. The level of meme manipulation and propaganda people are subjected to is so massive... it boggles the mind.

I have compassion for people in your dad and families position. The "cultural memes" that create the framework they have to live in, in order to gain the acceptance of their "peers" are EXTREMELY powerful.

I don't have any advice... and I know you weren't soliciting any... but so far as family, the thing that has been the most powerful in healing very broken relationships in my own family, has been to just love them, unreservedly, as best you can. If they had the perspective to see they are prisoners, whose bars are between their ears, they would do better.

You are not alone... that's for sure...

My own take on the Zimmerman case has evolved over time. The media has been useless, mostly, as an information source. As a conservative, and a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, I sure wish Zimmerman would have waited till the police showed up. If he was ever going to be doing the things he did, it would have been useful if he had some other self defense tricks in the bag, besides concealed carry.

His fears and bias about crime clouded his judgement, and he ended up taking a life. Was Trayvon an Angel or a thug? I have no idea. It sounds like he was getting tangled in some things most recently that could cause him some trouble... I do think he deserved to have the opportunity to live life, make mistakes, and then do some growing up.

I also believe Zimmerman acted in self defense... I think he exercised profoundly poor judgement, and piss poor tactical skills. And now, he has killed another human being. Something I hope I never have the experience of, even if it's someone forcing their way into my home while I'm there. Yes, I would use lethal force in that circumstance... possibly others external of my home.

But I would be heartbroken to have to do so.

Anyway... blathering... thanks for the thoughtful post. My heart goes out to you.

and now this,

4 July 2013
Central America's drug cartels turn their attention to trafficking people

Deadly combination of migration, poverty and lawlessness prove fertile ground for thriving trade in people
www.guardian.co.uk...

Asahac, an NGO based in northern Mexico, estimates that more than half of Central American migrants trying to cross into the US fall into the hands of trafficking or smuggling rings, or end up in sexual or forced labour.

In the past decade, Central America has become one of the most dangerous regions in the world. Mexico's widely reported drug war has left about 70,000 people dead. Honduras has a murder rate of 86 per 100,000 inhabitants – San Pedro Sula is the most dangerous city in the world, with 173 murders per 100,000 people.

This rise in violence has been attributed largely to the growing power of drug cartels, who are expanding their business from trafficking drugs to trafficking people, says Marcela Chacón, Costa Rica's deputy minister of interior and police.

"Why? Because a dose of drugs can be bought and consumed only once, but the same human being can be exploited in many forms over and over again throughout a lifetime," says Chacón.

Wow, after reading some of these post I realize just how bad things are in the US.

Some people are completely brainwashed.

I live in Africa and I can promise you the sooner black people stop portraying themselves as victims the better things will get for them. Think it basically counts for anyone really, regardless of race.

Those saying she gave whites permission to be racist is utterly clueless. She took the first step in opening the doors to a discussion that most of your were too afraid to do and at such a time when racial issues are so sensitive.

Think its generally needed just for folks to rid themselves of the frustrations they must feel.

Debating about race is like running in circles, there's just no end. Its totally illogical. Whats there to debate about. Just get over it. Pretty sure most of everyone couldn't give a damn about it until the media started poking at it.

reply to post by ButterCookie


Butter cookie - it is quite clear to me. You are intelligent, articulate, sensitive and you are your own person.
You just want to be you - you are you.
Alot of people do not like that.
I say - long may you be YOU !!!

So did you want a pat on the back for labeling the black community as a bunch of ignorant racists, because black girls wanted you to jump rope with them and your father objected to you gleefully celebrating the killing of Trayvon Martin and acquittal of George Zimmerman?

"Heyyy Im black (well i was born black lol) and ive always wanted to be friends with the white girls and they were nice to me im going to try to rationalize slavery now and put down my family for every closet racists vindication on here!! did i mention i growed up black..wished not"

....Back here again with that kings and queens sold their own fair and square argument that exposes your complete lack of ability to understand things in their entirety or acknowledge the depth of something...

That's what shines through in every post of yours I've ever read. One of the first responses to this thread was something akin to "You restore my faith in the african american community hugsandkisses (by putting down blacks as a whole)" which shows plainly an "I am better than you now prove your worth to me" perspective. Your posts reek of approval seeking from anyone who's not black. Good for you that you annoy your family and friends. So is your ultimate goal to enlighten those around you that could use a fresh outlook or to distance/alienate yourself from those people in the hope that you will transcend the burden of being weighed down by your melanin and wake up white as part of the white world? Because it never seems like you're trying to help those around you, but would rather get a meaningless affirmation from white strangers about how different from and disgusted with you are with the black people you know. Congrats you got like 100 stars for a pointless garbage thread. You feel accepted yet?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Baddguy

 

whats important is that the OP distance her self from the problem..power to her becuse i feel like i cant and shouldnt.

This is what we're really interested in hearing about. Why?

mostly because of how i was raised..not to run from the problem or sweep my dirt under the carpet..

being called the "n word" by whites is ore hurtful to me then being called uncle tom because to me uncle to carries a jealous tone rather than a hateful one.

Kids in my niaghborhood born in 1997 tell me crap like they cat do this or that because they feel its for white people or they are not white or white girls are prettier than black girls or i want my babies to "light skinded" and this hurts my heart from the bottom.

the same kids who look up to me and feel im more capable then them...i must be an example for them
and my peers who weren't given the same encouragement that i was growing. I will be there encouragement..while you all sit here and say crap like "racism ended years ago" . I tell black youths in my neighborhood in this day about what folks here on ATS say and they laugh..its absolutely unbelievable to them.

these kids know nothing of who they are or their history which is my belief where all the problems stem from

you may be blind to the problem but i am not

Hmmm Should have put this post www.abovetopsecret.com... here instead of doing a search on somewhere to put it. It fits better here with the ongoing conversation.

reply to post by MaryStillToe


I find it sad that most of you still see this as a Black Vs White issue when George Zimmerman is multi-racial Hispanic American. The media has focused on his "White" side to distract the masses from the fleecing that is being done to America. "Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt" was coined by the Roman poet Juvenal. Well I see the Circus and I know who the clowns are.