Vatican seeks to rebrand its relationship with science

edition.cnn.com...
Yay for Francis!!
Maybe, just maybe, he will pull this off. Considering what became of John Paul II, though, it makes me nervous.

The Vatican would like the world to see how much this relationship has changed.
With the new pope being himself a trained scientist -- Francis graduated as a chemical technician before moving on to study philosophy, psychology and theology -- the timing could be right for a new era of cooperation between the Vatican and science, building on the work of the STOQ Project -- Science, Theology and the Ontological Quest -- which was created by Pope John Paul II in 2003.
Since his election as pontiff, Vatican-watchers have been searching for signals about the direction in which Francis will take the church. Even in his inaugural speech, he referenced the importance of environmental stewardship and an appreciation of the natural world:

At least he hasn't caved yet.
Check out this article - I'm liking this guy a lot lately!!

In case the OP was too strangely 'brief' for my 'style' on here....
here's a bit of background on how things USED to be.....
from the article linked:

Dropping to his knees before the 10 cardinals of the Inquisition, dressed in the white shirt of penitence, Galileo Galilei was forced to retract his "heretic" theory that the Earth moved around the Sun. Threatened with torture and interrogated for 18 days, the scientist, who was imprisoned in the 17th century, promised to never again teach the theory and spent the rest of his life under house arrest in his small farmhouse outside of Florence.
Galileo's fate was very different from that of other scientists at the time of the Inquisition. Some were executed for threatening the church's teachings. Italian astronomer Giordano Bruno, an Italian philosopher who argued that the universe was infinite, was burned at the stake.
Now in 2013, as Pope Francis settles into his new role as leader of the Catholic Church, the Vatican's head of science is urging a re-think of the "mischaracterization" of the relationship between the church and science.

Excellent, Pope Francis!

And then there's one of my favorite other pics to quote:


Amazing how long it takes for society to evolve. But it does!

reply to post by wildtimes


Really only a small percentage of extremist fundamentalist type Christians believe that evolution should be labeled "evilution" and that the earth was created 6,000 years ago and Adam and Eve walked with dinosaurs and that Genesis is to be interpreted extremely literally....

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches, which make up around 1.4 billion of the ~2.2 billion worldwide members of Christendom have official Church Doctrine stating that science is complimentary to the Bible, and there is no conflict between current geological and astrological science along with evolutionary theory and biology, and most Protestant denominations have adopted that stance...

Only a few Pentecostal and Baptist and some other minority fundamentalist groups are stuck in the extremely literal worldview,

Which makes you wonder, why aren't more of them plucking there eyes out when they check out a womans butt?

reply to post by godlover25


That's true. In my opinion there are all kinds of Christians out there. There are some that accept evolution and what not. And there others who fear the idea of science. To me I can see that it conflicts were their concept of the bible. I do like how the Vatican wants to improve its relationship with science. You do not have to be an atheist to accept science.

reply to post by godlover25


I'm really glad you posted this reply. I have generally interpreted your replies as fundamentalist and refuting science.
For what it's worth, my estimation of you has just become more positive.

Of course, if you're one of those who does call it evilution ('cause you didn't say you arent'), then we'll still have a disagreement. But until I know better:

reply to post by Phoenix267

To me I can see that it conflicts were their concept of the bible.

That doesn't make their concept 'correct', though, and is one of the main issues I have with those fundamentalist sects.

I do like how the Vatican wants to improve its relationship with science. You do not have to be an atheist to accept science.

Yeah. ^^ That.
Thanks, Phoenix.

If only they would open their archives for independent scientific study
Now that would be something special.
Who knows what we'd find ?

Cody

IMO , Science is the chains of connections from creator to created.

Some of them are discovered , some are hidden , some are badly discovered.

No one can stand against science.

The true scientists does nothing but interpreting act of god. So , this scientists will never betray the people. And will be more modest as he/she discovers.

my reference Ayatollah Javadi Amoli.

He says " all the knowledge is religious. And the only science which can think about this is philosophy."

He says Qur'an tells us to think about events like "13:4
and in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise: watered with the same water, yet some of them we make more excellent than others to eat. behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand!"

And there are more like : " 3:190-191

behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed signs for men of understanding,

such as remember allah, standing, sitting, and reclining, and consider the creation of the heavens and the earth, (and say): our lord! thou createdst not this in vain. glory be to thee! preserve us from the doom of fire."

reply to post by wildtimes

That doesn't make their concept 'correct', though, and is one of the main issues I have with those fundamentalist sects.

I agree with you. That is why it's good to fight those groups who promote ignorance.

Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Really only a small percentage of extremist fundamentalist type Christians believe that evolution should be labeled "evilution" and that the earth was created 6,000 years ago and Adam and Eve walked with dinosaurs and that Genesis is to be interpreted extremely literally....

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches, which make up around 1.4 billion of the ~2.2 billion worldwide members of Christendom have official Church Doctrine stating that science is complimentary to the Bible, and there is no conflict between current geological and astrological science along with evolutionary theory and biology, and most Protestant denominations have adopted that stance...

Only a few Pentecostal and Baptist and some other minority fundamentalist groups are stuck in the extremely literal worldview,

Which makes you wonder, why aren't more of them plucking there eyes out when they check out a womans butt?

Evolution is in the OT and you just have look for it, it's just in a way handed down to developing minds at the time and both science and God agree you are the dust that makes up the universe. Science is of the material world and needs God to fill the missing links, they are not in the ground but inside you. Earth goes in cycles and we have evidence of civilizations come and gone, fragments of long ago littered underneath the earth as a reminder of the dangers of a material world.

The material world is like a shell that surrounds the mustard seed and it blocks out the sun and it doesn't allow the roots to flourish.

reply to post by wildtimes


No no I do not call it evilution,

LOL!

I believe the Universe to be approximately 13.7 billion years old, Earth to be ~4.5 billion years old, and that on the Fourth day of Creation the Cambrian Explosion occurred, followed by the 5th and 6th day of Creation where God caused the Earth to bring forth the great sea creatures that led to land life and eventually Hominid - Apes that God used as a "template" to form Homo Sapiens - Adam and Eve.

We are currently living in Gods Sabbath Day, God rested on the seventh day and ceased actively bringing new elements into being, everything He created has just been being maintained by Him for the past 100k - 1 million years or so... whenever you may date that final creation day to have ended.

reply to post by WarriorOfLight96


Thank you,


Genesis 5:1-3
This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man. " When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.
Read Genesis 5 | View in parallel | Compare Translations

Psalm 8:4-6
what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor. You made him ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet:
Read Psalms 8 | View in parallel | Compare Translations

Psalm 33:4-11
For the word of the LORD is right and true; he is faithful in all he does. The LORD loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of his unfailing love. By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth. He gathers the waters of the sea into jars; he puts the deep into storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD; let all the people of the world revere him. For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm. The LORD foils the plans of the nations; he thwarts the purposes of the peoples. But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations

reply to post by WarriorOfLight96

Science is of the material world and needs God to fill the missing links, they are not in the ground but inside you.

I would have to respectfully disagree we all need God to "fill the missing links". As an atheist I do like religious people learning about science, I just do not like how God has to be in the picture. In a way that will make it look like the religion has all the answers. Neil deGrasse Tyson said it best: " "[We should] not only teach people what science is, and what it does, but why it should mean something to them, and why it matters to society and everything that we hold dear." People of religious faith do need to have a relationship with science. Many famous scientist have been religious in the past. Christians, Muslims, etc. They have all contributed greatly to our understanding of science. You know what I'm saying?

reply to post by mideast


Doesn't the Quran have some Surahs that can be interpreted as Allah creating Humans through means of evolution?

reply to post by Phoenix267


Some excellent quotes;

Religion is poetry plus, not science minus."(Krister Stendahl)

"Religion is the art of the poetic. Science is the art of the provable. Politics is the art of the possible." (Paul H. Carr) "

Science can purify religion from error and superstition;
religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.
Each can draw the other into a wider world, a world in which both can flourish....
We need each other to be what we must be, what we are called to be." (-Pope John Paul II)

reply to post by mideast

I absolutely agree with you that the knowledge of God is more important than what non-Muslims call science, but isn't there a balance to be struck? The OP talks about what she sees as a better balance between religion and science.

I'm not sure that Islam has found that balance yet. Moslems have been awarded two Nobel Prizes in science. That's all sciences and all years. One of the two has been declared to be a non-Muslim by his government and had his gravestone altered to reflect that. The other was part of a team working out of California.

With the history, population, and resources of the Islamic world, I would have expected many, many more awards for learning and discovery in the sciences.

reply to post by godlover25


Those are interesting quotes. However, I still stand by my comment. What I was trying to say is that I do like people to learn about science. Whether they're religious or not. I just do not like how people apply it to that their religion is the correct one. I see it as a way they would promote that their religion predicted current scientific findings. Which I'm skeptical about that.

reply to post by Phoenix267


I'm not of the stock of Christians who believe when Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" that he literally meant you must follow Jesus and label yourself a Christian to enter Heaven,

I believe what He meant was that the Way, the Truth and the Life was his way of life, living a compassionate life, turning the other cheek, etc.

I believe there are many Christians who will not get into Heaven, and many Muslims and Buddhists and others who will,

I also believe Hell is the absence of life, not a fiery torture chamber, Sheol is simply what atheists believe happens post death - the same as you were before birth.

I have somewhat Unorthodox Christian Beliefs.... I suppose...

reply to post by cody599

Secret Archives? Not so secret anymore.

The Vatican's secret archives haven't been truly secret since Pope Leo XIII first allowed scholars to visit in 1881. Today, it's even more accessible. Outsiders are free to examine the correspondences of every pope for the past 1,000 years, although there is one catch: Guests have to know exactly what they're looking for. With 52 miles of shelves in the archives, the librarians prohibit browsing.

The most famous letter there is probably Henry VIII's request that his marriage to Catherine of Aragón be annulled, which Pope Clement VII denied. Henry divorced Catherine anyway and married Anne Boleyn (and four other women), leading to Rome's break with the Church of England. The archives also contain an abundance of red ribbons, which were used to bind 85 petitions from English clergyman and aristocrats.

mentalfloss.com...

P.s. My understanding is that documents from the last 75 years are still sealed to protect those who are still alive.

And the Archive's official vatican website?
asv.vatican.va...

reply to post by godlover25


I see what you're saying. Yeah I know there all kinds of Christians. With being a believer it goes my emotion and the imagination of how to interpret your beliefs. That is why you'll get so many different opinions with people who identify as Christian or Muslim or whatever. Anyway I'm sorry for derailing the thread. Just commenting. If you would like to continue this conversation message me.